My thoughts on MEL-PER A330 flight

[PERLHR]

I flew QF783 MEL-Perth in J on A330 last Thursday. Gold. The only positive thing that I have to say that it was nearly on time so I could make my connecting QR flight. The crew were disinterested at best . This was especially jarring when compared to the rose petal at feet treatment given on QR. Even the AY staff on Doha-Helsinki route were much more engaged. The whole trip opened my eyes even further on just how far QF are falling behind.

I think I actually have had better J service on the 737s compared to the 330. It's swings and roundabouts but indeed it can be eye watering what QF charge for biz yet they provide so little in terms of service for flights over 3 hours.

 

[Tropic]

Its actually a bit sad. QF is like an ageing drag queen who cant let go and thinks its still 1980 - does a line, puts on the same sparkly dress, heels and make up (unevenly..) every night and heads onstage...the show must go on after all... but she is so focused on getting her "sound and look" just right, and working all the bits that glitter, she doesnt notice the patrons, including her greatest fans, are now looking at each other forlornly and quietly leaving the room.... and heading across the road where they get quality food and drink, smiles and genuine friendly service from happy staff, all while watching an absolutely fabulously entertaining show... for less coin to boot! Thats life...

 

[algae]

I had no idea that crew members come and say hello to passengers in economy class. I have not seen this on any other airline? This individual sort of service I only thought was evident in J Cabins and on Private jets?

I used to travel a lot with a colleague (WP) in 2018/2019.
Flights were predominantly Perth to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
Always in economy, and they more often than not came and addressed him by name and welcomed him back.

Granted they always had a piece of paper and they just ran down the list, so it did feel a bit robotic.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Good point Tropic.
Even a country like Japan, has got both JL and NH flying 787s and 350s domestically.
QF could really do itself a service by starting to look at 787s domestically, to replace the 330 sooner or later, but no, they prefer to bring in the 220, probably cheaper to run that small bird around, but 4.5/5 hrs in Y on the 220, I would think claustrophobic, unless a person buys a comfort seat booking on it.
The rare 787s that fly dom pax on an int flight is good, I have flown the JQ 787 in Y and J, and like it, (as dom pax on their int sector).
Guess things will never change till AJ leaves, and even then, it would take a while for a CEO to make decisions, whether to bring new planes into dom runs in Aust, or keep the 220.
Granted some love narrow body planes, but I do like a bit of space.
Seeing VA now no longer has any wide body planes, QF could do a niche market by having a regular trans Aust wide body plane service, instead of their regular service swap to the 737.

 

[sudoer]

I had no idea that crew members come and say hello to passengers in economy class. I have not seen this on any other airline?

CSM greeting is a oneworld service standard that all member airlines are supposed to follow:

https://training.oneworld.com/refresher/Lessons/Downloads/files/Employee_reference_guide_June_2016.pdf

 

[RooFlyer]

puts on the same sparkly dress, heels and make up (unevenly..) every night

... serves up the same small bowl of plain green leaves every flight; clings to some celebrity ponytail to put lipstick on a pig...

 

[Guvner]

Not sure why people are complaining.
You can fly MEL-PER-MEL in QF J on a 737 for nearly $1000 less than Emirates F from Jakarta to Rome and back.
On top of that EK doesn't serve you a Neil Perry inspired panini.

 

[RichardMEL]

Good point Tropic.
Even a country like Japan, has got both JL and NH flying 787s and 350s domestically.
QF could really do itself a service by starting to look at 787s domestically, to replace the 330 sooner or later, but no, they prefer to bring in the 220, probably cheaper to run that small bird around, but 4.5/5 hrs in Y on the 220, I would think claustrophobic, unless a person buys a comfort seat booking on it.
The rare 787s that fly dom pax on an int flight is good, I have flown the JQ 787 in Y and J, and like it, (as dom pax on their int sector).
Guess things will never change till AJ leaves, and even then, it would take a while for a CEO to make decisions, whether to bring new planes into dom runs in Aust, or keep the 220.
Granted some love narrow body planes, but I do like a bit of space.
Seeing VA now no longer has any wide body planes, QF could do a niche market by having a regular trans Aust wide body plane service, instead of their regular service swap to the 737.

sigh. Poochie.. you know the A220 cabin is actually raved about by most flyers right? have you flown on one? Plus of course the 220 is designed as a smaller capacity aircraft for thinner routes - ie regional. You'll see those on ADL-OOL, MEL-TSV, SYD-ROK and PER-BME more than MEL-PER.

Or do you mean the 320/321 (which is most likely)? In which case - a wider cabin than the 737 and thus a smidge more comfortable in both classes.

Japan is a TOTALLY different situation than Australia. They have one huge thing we do not - VOLUME.

In the good old days Japan used modified 747SP's (dubbed the SR iirc) in Japan that carried a huge number of mostly Y pax between say Tokyo and Osaka - the demand being that high - even with Shinkansen offering a very good alternative.

Australia is a huge country that has only a few population centres with a whole lot of nothing and much lower levels of demand. widebodies like 787's and 350's are very expensive, and also actually designed for long haul ops - flying them on things like MEL-SYD is actually fairly inefficient for the aircraft but the capacity is what it's about - which is why you do see some of these aircraft floating around doing these runs.

Very rarely does transcon flights like PER-MEL/SYD require major upguages in capacity (think AFL Grand Finals and the like - where QF used to be able to throw a 747-300 on there back in the day). QF don't have 787 capacity sitting around doing nothing to just bung on the routes - except as the tags eg QF5/6/9/10 - which they do and do sell as domestic - which is exactly what you're arguing for.

The other thing is that QF, VA etc operate on a frequency model over capacity. Japan could support say hourly or two hourly 787-8's on some routes with demand. You would NEVER see that on Australian routes even if the airlines could support it. The preference is to provide high availability schedules eg MEL-SYD every 30min-an hour, even :15 during peaks on smaller aircraft like the 737. If QF did not do this and had the wides you want, you might see flights at say 0600, 0800, 1200, 1500 etc. Not exactly what most punters would want. And on transcons? instead of say 5 or 6 transcons you might come down to 2 or 3.

yeah the narrowbodies are unpopular, specially on transcons, but they provide for great schedule flexibility for the airline and in the Australian environment that's better to offer schedule and price flexibility to ustomers.

QF's decision to replace the 737's with A320/321's (mostly 321's it seems - which is a very AA strategy imo) is basically the same thing - in a lightly bigger cabin, more efficient aircraft and again providing for frequency =- and the capacity increase of a 321 vs a 737-800 will probably see less widebodies on domestic routes full stop (but probably more seats in J per departure for upgraders).

Anyway can't equate Japan to Australia for quite a few reasons.

 

[Sprucegoose]

thank you for being OneWorld emerald

To which you replied - thank you for taking my money.....

 

[Cessna 180]

On a recent BNE DRW evening flight, part way through the flight, the CSM came back and found me in the exit row and offered me a warm welcome and a glass of wine from the front. It seemed pretty genuine and I appreciated it. Not that I expected it.
That economy service overall was better than my recent SYD WLG return in J.

I think the only other time this has happened since Covid was on a 717 from NTL where they came and welcomed me prior to lift off with a bottle of water.

The whole service does seem to be slipping to me and it is the little things that do not cost much that sometimes help a lot.

 

[Saab34]

CSM greeting is a oneworld service standard that all member airlines are supposed to follow:

Wow that’s interesting. Would be even more interesting to see who actually follows that and more importantly who doesn’t bother at all.

 

[Tropic]

little things that do not cost much that sometimes help a lot

This, exactly... While its easy to forget having your knees under your chin for 3 hours while being fed slop with "ponytail curated" grass clippings, what one does remember is interacting with a staff member who genuinely went out of their way to help you or make your onground/flight experience better, or just made you feel a bit special and valued for that brief moment...
One 737-800 pretty much looks and flys the same as the next but the inflight experience can differ so much depending on the service, standard of food, amenities, etc. So, as they say in some circles, its not what you got, its how you use it... Maybe things will improve after QF has gouged back enough of the lost Covid profit...

 

[Mr H]

I dont care about greetings if they are a required task imposed by management and therefore unlikely to be genuine. Contrived greetings are cringe.

^^
This

I attach no value to the CSD visit as it just feels awkward. On the other hand, I do quite like a "Welcome back Mr H" when the cabin crew looks at my boarding card when I get on the plane. And occasionally a member of the cabin crew will go out of their way to help me - an SQ FA who wrote out a list of suggested things to see in Singapore, for example, or a QF FA who gave me spare PJs for me to take home for the kids. I like cabin crew who are proud of their product and take pleasure in showing it off to people - not scripted obsequiousness.

 

[RichardMEL]

Wow that’s interesting. Would be even more interesting to see who actually follows that and more importantly who doesn’t bother at all.

yeah I'd never heard it was a standard. Gee over the years I'm struggling to think of any of them that have specifically acknowledged my emerald status on board (now to be fair I've usually been in J or F and so it's not like the perk of getting a snack in Y on AA type thing). I think EK a few times have noted my status (iirc at one time they were trying to seduce QFF over to Skywards and I got a mini pitch - but that was quite some time ago). CX, AA, AY, MH, BA? don't recall any specific ack of status. Recent AA flights definitely nothing. I don't expect it, nor do I particularly want to feel singled out in that regard tbh so I'm happy enough if service is consistent and all.

Actually closest I can think of in recent times was flying AA through CLT. I went to the lounge, scanned my (domestic) BP and the agent politely said "Oh, I don't see any membership on file for you?" I mentioned being a oneworld emerald and she said "oh.. Qantas. there it is. yes that's fine" (despite the fairly large emerald on the BP lol. so I guess.. kind of acknowledgement of status? lol

As usual with QF the application of CSM greetings to elites in Y is inconsistent (nah, I won't bother with the usual catchphrase) and I guess that's the most frustrating aspect. Either do it or don't.. but if you're going to do it.. do it every time. Expectations get set and then not met which detracts from the airline over all. I've never had it on AA for example so I don't expect it.. but I have on QF so I could reasonably expect it there.. and if I don't get it I would be entitled to feel a bit miffed (not me personally per above, but just making a general point).

And that's the real issue here I think - it's maintaining service standards. Certain other airlines, perhaps labelled as being robotic or whathave you, go to great lengths to enforce consistent service elements and standards - and it shows. Some others do not.

 

[RichardMEL]

^^
This

I attach no value to the CSD visit as it just feels awkward. On the other hand, I do quite like a "Welcome back Mr H" when the cabin crew looks at my boarding card when I get on the plane. And occasionally a member of the cabin crew will go out of their way to help me - an SQ FA who wrote out a list of suggested things to see in Singapore, for example, or a QF FA who gave me spare PJs for me to take home for the kids. I like cabin crew who are proud of their product and take pleasure in showing it off to people - not scripted obsequiousness.

yes. agree. The greeting at the door or gate is all I "need" - or a "good to have you back again" at lounge entry. That kind of thing is fine an at the very least shows they're paying attention to the status on the BP lol.

Some interactions in flight can be amusing - more than once a CSM has commented about meal choices and quipped "You've probably had them all by now right?" which is it's own acknowledgement and I don't mind.

I've often written before about forced interactions and they absolutely have been awkward and for me uncomfortable. A crew member remembers you (or v.v.) and that's perfect and natural.. but a "ipad says P1. must engage" type thing honestly annoys me - and that's not personal to the CSM having to do it - or feeling they have to - not at all.. the point of it being forced. Not for me at all personally. In that respect I am glad those seem to have gone away on domestic at the very least. I have cringed more than once on a MEL-SYD sector with this kind of thing.

each to their own though.

 

[Mr H]

each to their own though.

I suspect some of it depends on how the passenger views cabin crew. As far as I am concerned, they are professional people just like me. The only difference is that they are on duty when I am not. I expect to be treated as an equal.

But I know some people (particularly those of a Transatlantic persuasion) tend to view a purchaser as being inherently superior to a provider, and to expect fawning, adulation and to be able to call the shots.

 

[oz_mark]

CSM greeting is a oneworld service standard that all member airlines are supposed to follow:

https://training.oneworld.com/refresher/Lessons/Downloads/files/Employee_reference_guide_June_2016.pdf

View attachment 315013

I guess it comes down to what is meant by "acknowledging" cardholders in Economy. I know sometimes they have made a comment during meal service, or such. Maybe that is enough.

 

[Mr H]

I guess it comes down to what is meant by "acknowledging" cardholders in Economy. I know sometimes they have made a comment during meal service, or such. Maybe that is enough.

Usually the flight deck will pop an acknowledgement of the members of the frequent flyer program and their one world partners in their spiel.

 

[PERLHR]

I think the free spirits and Oneworld Emerald greeting in QF Y are reserved for international flights (and even then, the greeting doesn't always happen). Not sure if you'd get this on QF9/10 though between Melbourne and Perth?

I'll soon find out...

Post automatically merged: Jan 25, 2023

Usually the flight deck will pop an acknowledgement of the members of the frequent flyer program and their one world partners in their spiel.

Tends to be the cabin crew....and it's written down for them as part of the spiel. All one world airlines do it and indeed even Qantas.

 

[PERLHR]

Slightly off topic...but pre COVID I had flown Budapest-Helsinki-Tokyo-Helsinki-Budapest with AY all within 5 days. On the flight back to Budapest from Helsinki after the long haul the same CC member who had been working the Budapest to Helsinki sector 5 days earlier immediately recognised me on boarding and said something like ."Gosh you have been to Japan and back already"!!...and provided just great service on the Airbus 321 up the front. This is the kind of recognition that amazes me.