Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations

[kamchatsky]

Million‑dollar question: Would you book two Emirates J reward seats (LIS → DBX→ SYD) on 3 June?

Pros: The origin location and date are exactly what I need.
Cons: War

Yes, but also book a backup trip if possible, using points, even if it is Y

 

[Aeryn]

For travel insurance it's not just the cost of changing flights and hotels. What happens if you have a heart attack or car accident while in a country that suddenly went on the DNT list. The war didn't cause the medical emergency. The main reason I buy travel insurance is for medical coverage.

If medical coverage is most important then you need to ensure none of the countries you are visiting or transiting are on the Do Not Travel list at Smart Traveller when you book or fly.

If a destination is ok at tiime of booking then not when time to travel TI will usually assist with cancellation costs, as they cant assist you in a war zone.

There are midical only policies but these still exclude place on the do not travel list, quite rightly imo.

 

[elanshin]

This may be edging on politics which I don't want to delve too deeply into, but some analysis on the conflict suggests that Iran isn't trying to "win the war", but instead make it as expensive as possible in every avenue.

So they're hitting infrastructure and disruption that hurt economically (oil infrastructure). It may be possible that perhaps disruption to civil aviation could also legitimately part of the plans. It could be that they want to actively maintain the threat and cause disruptions continuously.

If that may be true, we might be looking at a completely different scenario for a while where ME may consistently have disrupted for a while to come. It only take a drone "in the vicinity" of DOH, AUH and DXB to cause havoc to air traffic.

I wonder if the airlines are seriously looking at shuffling their bases away "temporarily".

 

[jbman]

EU 261 applies to the operating carrier and VA doesn't fly to Europe on its own metal, so VA would never be liable themselves to reroute you ex-Europe. The responsibility to re-route would be on the operating carrier and only once the operating carrier has actually cancelled the flight.

So this is why Qatar is canceling flights 24-48 hours out so they don’t have to help before?

This whole thing has been an eye opener for future bookings be it with travel insurance, booking agent vs operating carrier and the level of assistance airlines have offered to their customers.

 

[Pushka]

The big problem with being in a war zone is that the insurer may not even be able to assist you.

We are working with a travel company who deals in such situations and there are in place contingency plans.

 

[Quickstatus]

So this is why Qatar is canceling flights 24-48 hours out so they don’t have to help before?

But why would an airline have to help prior to the scheduled departure?

 

[JessicaTam]

I get that, and I also see how it can still be confusing especially in situations like this where any ambiguity can cause people to worry given the implications if they mess up.

It also doesn't help that the link I posted is the first official website that came up when searching "UK ETA transit".

As another complicating factor, every country is of course different, e.g., NZ does require ETAs for transit, so it's easy to understand why people get confused.

When the UK first introduced the ETA they said even transit lax needed it. After the understandable uproar they back tracked to not needing it. So even “official” websites may have outdated info.

Any further discussion on ETA etc can continue here please:

Thread 'UK rolling out Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA)'

Oct 17, 2024

The UK Govt (like the rest of Europe) is bringing in an electronic travel authorisation for non-British and Irish citizens, and has confirmed the start date.

"...from 27 November 2024, eligible non-Europeans can apply for an ETA and will need an ETA to travel from 8 January 2025. ETAs will then extend to eligible Europeans from 5 March 2025, who will need an ETA to travel from 2 April 2025."

Application page is here and it costs £10 to apply. Everyone traveling needs to get an ETA, including babies and children. Should take up to 3 working days to process...

• aplmac
• Replies: 162
• Forum: Passports, Visas, Immigration & Customs

• 
• 

 

[Seat0B]

This is something I posted about elsewhere before. The Australian airlines have successfully tricked the government and public into thinking a full refund is the best option. It’s often the worst option - refund your cheap pre-booked flights and force you to buy a new last minute flight at a higher price!

The real genius of EU 261 (that Australia has ignored) is requiring the airlines to get you to your ticketed destination at no extra cost to you, and covering your meals and accomodation until they get you there.

We have just stared down this exact scenario for Seat daughter with VA(QR) flights CBR-SYD-xDOH-JNB return for 21 March which are now ultimately cancelled and having to replace them with whatever is available. The additional cost for Seat Daughter's family (2 adults, 1 child) was in the order of ~$5,000. It would have been much much much better for them if VA had been forced to get them to the destination, rather than being able to just wash their hands of it all and give a refund that did not come close to covering the replacement cost of the flights at the last minute, in a period of high demand and with rising fuel costs.

So I 100% agree with you that it is a total con.

 

[Seat0B]

But why would an airline have to help prior to the scheduled departure?

Because if they ultimately cancel the flight, the pax may still need to get to their destination, and leaving them jilted at the altar 24-48 hrs before they reasonably expected to depart on their trip may well be too late for any effective actions to be taken.

For Seat Daughter and her family, she still wants to go to the wedding. DOH was only a transit point, but that caused all her flights to be under doubt. They are a young family with a huge mortgage who have outlaid over $10,000 for flights and accommodation to be at her brother's bloody destination wedding and they simply do not have the ready cash to buy back up tickets which are now selling at an inflated price. So luckily for them my credit card can take the hit. Their original VA (QR) flights cost ~$6,000. When I first looked at alternatives, QF was around $9,000 and SQ about $10,000 because of increased demand as people cancel out of ME trips, fuel increases and who knows what else might be in the mix. Two days later when I booked, QF was actually $10,700 - so a cost of almost $5,000 more than originally paid. Every minute the airline does not help pax (say by cancelling early, or offering re-routing rather than just rebooking on a different date, costs those pax money.

And yes, they have travel insurance, which does not cover this situation at all.

 

[jbman]

But why would an airline have to help prior to the scheduled departure?

Not expecting help before cancel, just noted they are doing 24-48 hours before flights, however VA just posted this

At this stage, all Virgin Australia services operated by Qatar Airways (VA1-22) are cancelled up to and including at least Tuesday, 17 March 2026. VA7 (Melbourne-Doha) and VA15 (Brisbane-Doha) are also cancelled on Wednesday, 18 March. Affected guests are being contacted directly.

If there was AU261 then everyone from today till 17,18 would be assisted. I see this as they are off the hook and just offer refunds.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We have just stared down this exact scenario for Seat daughter with VA(QR) flights CBR-SYD-xDOH-JNB return for 21 March which are now ultimately cancelled and having to replace them with whatever is available. The additional cost for Seat Daughter's family (2 adults, 1 child) was in the order of ~$5,000. It would have been much much much better for them if VA had been forced to get them to the destination, rather than being able to just wash their hands of it all and give a refund that did not come close to covering the replacement cost of the flights at the last minute, in a period of high demand and with rising fuel costs.

So I 100% agree with you that it is a total con.

It’s a war. In the absence of specified consumer law, which arguably the EU goes too far, it’s something completely out of the airline’s control. Neither of you can fly the route: force majeure. Why should the airline be on the hook for thousands of dollars for something out of their control?

Just on the EU/UK261, there seems to be some confusion as to how the rights are enforced. There is no ‘fight’ involved… you don’t have to go to court or file papers. It’s just mentioning your rights under the applicable law.

Thinking about it perhaps it’s not unreasonable? Call centre agents are going to dealing with tens of thousands of passengers, worldwide. Are they necessarily going to be across the consumer laws for every country? That’s where the passenger reminding them gets the results.

Should passengers be confused? We spend tens of hours researching our trips, reading reviews, selecting seats together, maximising FF benefits, even setting alarms for T-96 or T-80 to secure bulkhead seats or row 4. Is it unreasonable to spend 10 minutes to read your consumer rights? Or spend an hour getting through to the airline?

 

[Seat0B]

Not expecting help before cancel, just noted they are doing 24-48 hours before flights, however VA just posted this

At this stage, all Virgin Australia services operated by Qatar Airways (VA1-22) are cancelled up to and including at least Tuesday, 17 March 2026. VA7 (Melbourne-Doha) and VA15 (Brisbane-Doha) are also cancelled on Wednesday, 18 March. Affected guests are being contacted directly.

If there was AU261 then everyone from today till 17,18 would be assisted. I see this as they are off the hook and just offer refunds.

Seat Daughter was contacted late yesterday by VA and proactively offered the right to cancel her family's flight on 21 March for full refund, so I suspect they know that there will be more flights cancelled than just up to 17 March. She accepted the refund offer. They said it would be paid within 48 hrs, which would be nice given the extra outlay now incurred on expensive last minute replacement tickets.

 

[RooFlyer]

when you can’t get hold of the airline.

I think irishpete's mistake was to not call the airline because they said not to. Bugger that! #1 comes first. At any stage, do whatever to get your problem sorted, because everyone else would be doing just that.

EDIT: Don't wish to rub it in, but this is exactly when a travel agent comes in handy! THEY contact the airline etc.

 

[Tiki]

If medical coverage is most important then you need to ensure none of the countries you are visiting or transiting are on the Do Not Travel list at Smart Traveller when you book or fly.

If a destination is ok at tiime of booking then not when time to travel TI will usually assist with cancellation costs, as they cant assist you in a war zone.

There are midical only policies but these still exclude place on the do not travel list, quite rightly imo.

For example if you were in Dubai and all of a sudden it's on DNT after you already left Australia. You have a heart attack and end up in Dubai General Hospital ICU for a week. The war wouldn't affect an insurer from paying the bill. The hospital would still take all major forms of payment but it could be very expensive for a retired person.

 

[Simsy85]

Going to ask again, if anyone has had any success with QR visa via eu 261 in the last week? My flight will likely be cancelled sometime on Saturday evening, I'm wondering how best to contact Qatar about requesting accommodation and re-routing and what to say.

Update:
Not that they specifically emailed me about it, but they emailed saying "there are flexible options to manage your trip", then when I logged in to manage booking, I see that the first leg (AMS -> DOH) says it's cancelled (though the DOH -> SYD isn't, despite it also not running). Is that presumably enough to trigger EU261?

I had a look and neither Emirates nor JAL is currently flying out of AMS which does complicate things. Could I push for a hotel for a week and reschedule my flight do you think, would that fall under the regulation? I'd rather wait a week and see what happens, given there are limited options to fly out of AMS anyway.

So basically ideally I just push my flights 1 week to the 23rd, which I think I can do myself, book a hotel, and somehow need to get Qatar to pay for that, but just clarifying is this is fine under eu261, since I can see on their website my flight out of AMS is cancelled? The reason I say 23rd is Qatar's guidance is all flights to the 22nd.

Update2:
Doesn't seem like it's possible for me to change anything, it's all a bit broken, but they direct you to broken live chat either on the website or app - neither of which works

There is something on the contact page to say call the local number, but as a non-local my esim is data-only, I can't really call anyone. Really stupid if you ask me.

Question - does this (EU261) apply if it’s MEL to DOH to FRA? Or only the other way around?

 

[Aeryn]

@Tiki typically when you have a medical episode overseas the insurer will authorize minimal treatment for the most emergent issues and once stable then look to repatriate you for anything that can wait to be done back in Aus including rehab.

If you can be repatriated but can be medivaced a shorter distance the insurer can also direct you to be treated somewhere else where the costs are more favourable for them.

A friends husband broke his leg very badly skiing in Switzerland, his insurer had him flown to France by chopper where it was much less expensive to have his leg set (he required surgery and multiple pins) even including the helicopter evac than it would have been to receive same treatment in Switzerland. Then once he was cleared to fly he came home in J, and follow-up revisions and rehab were done here (not covered by TI, just Medicare and his usual health insurance).

Insurer cant reliably move or repatriate someone from a war zone, so best to avoid transiting volatile areas when there are other more stable options.

 

[RooFlyer]

Saudi Arabia make you take out local medical insurance when you get a visa. Inexpensive - A$35. Some of the coverage - SAR100K is about A$37K. No 'war' exclusion, as its not travel insurance - just health insurance.



I'm pretty sure you are offered health insurance for Qatar during the QR ticket purchase process; optional for stays <30 days.

 

[clifford]

It only take a drone "in the vicinity" of DOH, AUH and DXB to cause havoc to air traffic.

But that doesn't actually seem to be the case. EK and EY are pressing on regardless, so that they and their masters can say all is normal, please fly with us and come to our country. I really do hope that this myth isn't rudely exposed by loss of life of airline pax.

 

[RooFlyer]

But that doesn't actually seem to be the case. EK and EY are pressing on regardless, so that they and their masters can say all is normal, please fly with us and come to our country. I really do hope that this myth isn't rudely exposed by loss of life of airline pax.

I don't think they are flying 'volunteers' in, are they? Just repatriating people in and out, who choose to fly?

 

[Harrison_133]

AeroRoutes reporting that Emirates have now extended their reduced schedule through to 28 March.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2032006241573110172