Middle East Airspace Diversions/Cancellations

[prozac]

Shame!

See I've made a big effort to speak DIL's language

Oh dear, the cross some must bear.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Shame!

See I've made a big effort to speak DIL's language

"So long" still seems to be the one that throws the most people off.

I still let it out from time to time but otherwise have managed to master the Australian accent for daily use enough to hide most detections (revealing the truth is always a fun party trick).

 

[Quickstatus]

I suspect the people saying they won't transit the Middle East "ever" again may be more likely to stick than those saying they just won't fly Qatar.

Some might, some might not

the Middle East has never purported to be a bastion of consumer rights (or many rights at all).

No one said that the ME is a bastion of consumer or any rights but that has not stopped people all over the world booking flights with the ME3. One could also say with receipts, by the way, that Qantas is not a bastion of consumer rights too. However, I don't see what this has to do with the current situation. It appears to me that the ME3 is dealing with this issue as well as any airline in their situation.

 

[Quickstatus]

Cons: War

Would you consider a Con to be:

If at the time of your booking and then at the time of your flight, a war was ongoing (whether a war was formally declared or not) and then you needed emergency medical treatment when you were in transit and you were offloaded in DXB. You then find out your travel insurance declined cover because of the general exclusions which include wars.

 

[Seat0B]

"So long" still seems to be the one that throws the most people off.

Had to resort to google for that one. I can throw it in to my next conversation with DIL for bonus points!

 

[IrishPete]

Would you consider a Con to be:

If at the time of your booking and then at the time of your flight, a war was ongoing (whether a war was formally declared or not) and then you needed emergency medical treatment when you were in transit and you were offloaded in DXB. You then find out your travel insurance declined cover because of the general exclusions which include wars.

I would like to meet the regulator that told insurers it is okay to exclude war...

What are people supposed to do when stranded? Not everyone can afford the enormous extra cost of the jacked-up fares that other airlines charge in these circumstances. Plus accommodation costs.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I would like to meet the regulator that told insurers it is okay to exclude war...

What are people supposed to do when stranded? Not everyone can afford the enormous extra cost of the jacked-up fares that other airlines charge in these circumstances. Plus accommodation costs.

it’s not the regulator, it’s simple product offering, and cost.

You can buy a bespoke policy that includes war, but at what premium?

When stranded? The EU and the UK requires airlines to provide meals and accommodation and re-routes the passengers at the earliest opportunity, free of charge… so there are no additional costs. Your insurance wouldn’t pay out in those situations anyway given those costs are recoverable by the passenger.

Ex AU, people originating there won’t usually have additional accommodation costs (they just go home), and airlines are re-routing. For those who originated outside Australia and need to fly home… they're potentially going to be up for some extra accommodation, but again they're having flights re-routed.

So it’s a question of actual costs on passengers, and the cost of a policy that included war.

 

[Quickstatus]

What are people supposed to do when stranded

There are other ways to do LIS-AUS which does not include the Middle East.
EU261 provides some cover regarding accomodation and meals and re routing or a refund
The airline would reroute the passenger or provide a refund if the pasenger thinks it is too risky on an individual basis

I would like to meet the regulator that told insurers it is okay to exclude war...

What regulator told the travel insurers that it is Ok to exclude war? You mean to say that insurers should be forced to provide insurance with a war inclusion at no extra cost?. What do you think a War premium is going to be?

 

[IrishPete]

When stranded? The EU and the UK requires airlines to provide meals and accommodation and re-routes the passengers at the earliest opportunity, free of charge… so there are no additional costs. Your insurance wouldn’t pay out in those situations anyway given those costs are recoverable by the passenger.

I'm not sure if you have first hand experience of this, but I can assure you that Qatar Airways offered absolutely nothing, and discouraged making any contact with them. If you have to get back to work/children/pets and are incurring further costs as each day passes (I wasn't, but could have been - no, cancel that, we were incurring parking costs at an airport - $89 for two and a bit extra days, thank you Canberra AIrport), fighting Qatar to make them comply with EU regulations, when they weren't providing a means of contacting them, wasn't really practical.

 

[Quickstatus]

fighting Qatar to make them comply with EU regulations, when they weren't providing a means of contacting them, wasn't really practical.

If the priority is to get back home, then all the passenger can do is to find a way to get back home and then fight that battles later rather than incurring further costs OS

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm not sure if you have first hand experience of this, but I can assure you that Qatar Airways offered absolutely nothing, and discouraged making any contact with them. If you have to get back to work/children/pets and are incurring further costs as each day passes (I wasn't, but could have been - no, cancel that, we were incurring parking costs at an airport - $89 for two and a bit extra days, thank you Canberra AIrport), fighting Qatar to make them comply with EU regulations, when they weren't providing a means of contacting them, wasn't really practical.

It’s tough, but for others in the same situation it’s a matter of persistence to get through… either by phone or chat. It can take a couple of hours to finally get through, but once there QR does seem aware of their obligations.

 

[MARTINE]

It’s tough, but for others in the same situation it’s a matter of persistence to get through… either by phone or chat. It can take a couple of hours to finally get through, but once there QR does seem aware of their obligations.

Not sure that rates as even basic customer service delivery.. persist.. wait hours.. seem aware of their obligations. I empathise with everyone stuck there currently. Not all passengers have large wads of $$ and lots of experience negotiating this. Even if it is beyond the airlines control — how they engage with customers to get through this matters a lot.
Thinking of the stressed folk out there.
This will make a (long time into the future) dinner party story.

 

[jbman]

it’s not the regulator, it’s simple product offering, and cost.

You can buy a bespoke policy that includes war, but at what premium?

When stranded? The EU and the UK requires airlines to provide meals and accommodation and re-routes the passengers at the earliest opportunity, free of charge… so there are no additional costs. Your insurance wouldn’t pay out in those situations anyway given those costs are recoverable by the passenger.

Ex AU, people originating there won’t usually have additional accommodation costs (they just go home), and airlines are re-routing. For those who originated outside Australia and need to fly home… they're potentially going to be up for some extra accommodation, but again they're having flights re-routed.

So it’s a question of actual costs on passengers, and the cost of a policy that included war.

In the case of VA from Australia they are not offering rerouting just a refund or a date change up to 14 days in advance. My understanding is if it was from EU they would be obliged to reroute you.

This raises the question when are the new rules the government spoke about going to help like EU 261 would today. However from what @IrishPete said even 261 wasn’t much help when you can’t get hold of the airline.

Hope everyone who is trying to get somewhere gets home safely

 

[Seat0B]

This will make a (long time into the future) dinner party story.

That's what we've been telling Seat Son and DIL - what a story you will have to tell your future kids!

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

I would like to meet the regulator that told insurers it is okay to exclude war...

What are people supposed to do when stranded? Not everyone can afford the enormous extra cost of the jacked-up fares that other airlines charge in these circumstances. Plus accommodation costs.

"War" is just about the least contentious issue you'll find listed in virtually any contract's definition of what constitutes an act-of-god/force majeure, which essentially tosses the agreement out the window.

Many insurers will still cover emergency medical issues if you find yourself suddenly stranded in a war-zone even when the rest of your coverage gets tossed out, but generally, for the rest this is just one of those things that we all have to accept is a risk that is neither your nor the insurer's fault, which ultimately puts responsibility on the party stuck with the consequences, i.e., you.

 

[MARTINE]

That's what we've been telling Seat Son and DIL - what a story you will have to tell your future kids!

I’m sure you can give it a run in the speeches Sat night. Have a great night and safe travels

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

In the case of VA from Australia they are not offering rerouting just a refund or a date change up to 14 days in advance. My understanding is if it was from EU they would be obliged to reroute you.

EU 261 applies to the operating carrier and VA doesn't fly to Europe on its own metal, so VA would never be liable themselves to reroute you ex-Europe. The responsibility to re-route would be on the operating carrier and only once the operating carrier has actually cancelled the flight.

 

[Tiki]

For travel insurance it's not just the cost of changing flights and hotels. What happens if you have a heart attack or car accident while in a country that suddenly went on the DNT list. The war didn't cause the medical emergency. The main reason I buy travel insurance is for medical coverage.

 

[LondonAussie]

This raises the question when are the new rules the government spoke about going to help like EU 261 would today.

This is something I posted about elsewhere before. The Australian airlines have successfully tricked the government and public into thinking a full refund is the best option. It’s often the worst option - refund your cheap pre-booked flights and force you to buy a new last minute flight at a higher price!

The real genius of EU 261 (that Australia has ignored) is requiring the airlines to get you to your ticketed destination at no extra cost to you, and covering your meals and accomodation until they get you there.

 

[oz_mark]

For travel insurance it's not just the cost of changing flights and hotels. What happens if you have a heart attack or car accident while in a country that suddenly went on the DNT list. The war didn't cause the medical emergency. The main reason I buy travel insurance is for medical coverage.

The big problem with being in a war zone is that the insurer may not even be able to assist you.