MH1 severe turbulence

[jb747]

You know the expected turbulence is going to be bad when the the CSM or the pilots ask the crew to be seated. I've heard these announcements when flying MH.

But that's the point. The pilots can't tell whether it will be really bad, or just bad (or sometimes nothing at all). Far too late to be telling the crew if you are reacting to whatever you are already in. And you also shouldn't be setting degrees (of turbulence) in the passengers minds. The worst I've seen in the last couple of trips was clear air, and the radar is of no help there.

 

[Boris spatsky]

I have also observed on numerous airlines cabin crew being slow to secure food and drink carts when the tech crew member or cabin supervisor advises us all to have our seat belts on, or the warning sign is lit. It would be unfair to expect these trolleys to be secured in 30 seconds: the staff member(s) have to push or pull them down the aisle, and if they're in the middle of serving a drink they cannot drop the bottle instantly, but on occasion the attitude is lackadaisical. I can hear the 'ping' so they should

Our expected time on a narrowbody to secure after the call is 3-5 minutes if the carts are out. It's not just putting them away - we have limited space and if you don't pack them carefully, they won't fit back in the hole they came from. So it's not a simple task.

Be aware that we will have called the cabin crew and told them what to expect - our expected length and severity of the bumps, which we have numerous ways of predicting (radar, forecasts, other pilot reports etc) even though we may not always be right.

We don't call you as a passenger in the same way so the crew know more than you do in this instance. They are fully aware of the safety implications of not doing it quickly and correctly.

 

[Fifa]

...ah, now who hasn't done up their seat belts?

Sadly, many airlines have a strange system in which the cabin crew will be walking about whilst the seat belt signs are on. Talk about teaching the passengers to take no notice of the signs. I was very surprised to see ANZ doing this just recently.

We recently flew 20 sectors on AA and on most flights the cabin crew served drinks, meals and walked around while the seat belt signs were on.
Couldn't believe it!

 

[dajop]

We recently flew 20 sectors on AA and on most flights the cabin crew served drinks, meals and walked around while the seat belt signs were on.
Couldn't believe it!

Ive found AA at times can be very conservative with seat belt sign usage, to the point where a lot passengers ignore them. To be cynical it all depends on what the seat belts signs are meant to achieve. Are they turned on to prevent injury to passengers? Or to prevent passengers suing airlines if they are injured?

(To be fair to the esteemed pilots that are contributors to this thread I'd say QF are definitely in the former category. But I've been on numerous flights, usually within the USA, with seatbelt on for almost the whole flight without any turbulence that it makes me wonder there what the procedures are for). Of course just another armchair commentator viewpoint.

 

[dajop]

Flew MH KUL-MEL last night. The seat belt sign came on just before reaching Indonesia. Turbulence continued until reaching the Australian continent. No turbulence past there, seat belt sign remained on until about 50mins before landing . Very conservative, perhaps a reaction to MH1, but also could be very boy who cried wolf...

 

[aussiel]

Flew MH KUL-MEL last night. The seat belt sign came on just before reaching Indonesia. Turbulence continued until reaching the Australian continent. No turbulence past there, seat belt sign remained on until about 50mins before landing . Very conservative, perhaps a reaction to MH1, but also could be very boy who cried wolf...

I experienced something similar when flying MH. They seem to leave the seatbelt sign on for a long time, to the point where it gets ignored. After a good few hours of it being on with little action, I had to ask the cabin crew (who were freely walking around) whether I could safely use the facilities. Cabin crew looked at me funny and said of course.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We recently flew 20 sectors on AA and on most flights the cabin crew served drinks, meals and walked around while the seat belt signs were on.
Couldn't believe it!

Different airlines have different procedures. Qantas is the only airline I can recall that uses the seat-belt sign to mean both pax and crew need to be seated. For every other airline it is for pax only.

I think this policy reflects the different abilities for pax and crew to handle mild turbulence: cabin crew should be more experienced.

 

[Quickstatus]

Different airlines have different procedures. Qantas is the only airline I can recall that uses the seat-belt sign to mean both pax and crew need to be seated. For every other airline it is for pax only.

I think this policy reflects the different abilities for pax and crew to handle mild turbulence: cabin crew should be more experienced.

Im not sure what you mean by different abilities. I would assume the cabin crew may have additional info from flight deck about the turbulence, but gymnastic ability or quick reflexes is not going to prevent gravity and inertia acting in the same way.

Whatis the procedure if a cabin crew is too far from their jump seat when a immediate sit down/seatbelt is commanded from the flight deck?

 

[jb747]

Different airlines have different procedures. Qantas is the only airline I can recall that uses the seat-belt sign to mean both pax and crew need to be seated. For every other airline it is for pax only.

I think this policy reflects the different abilities for pax and crew to handle mild turbulence: cabin crew should be more experienced.

I'd really love you to explain this comment too. I've always assumed it's because they're expendable, but if they're actually able to fly (as per Superman, and so resist the turbulence), then I'm impressed.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Im not sure what you mean by different abilities. I would assume the cabin crew may have additional info from flight deck about the turbulence, but gymnastic ability or quick reflexes is not going to prevent gravity and inertia acting in the same way.

Many airlines will use the seat belt sign for very mild turbulence. They may do this for their own (legal) protection. Or for the comfort of passengers.

Cabin crew are experienced and can continue operating during that mild turbulence.

Qantas takes a different approach.

 

[froggerADL]

I really don't care if passengers get hurt because they weren't wearing a seat belt. However, I do care if they injure other people because of their stupidity.

There is, what seems to me, a quite simple solution to this. If a passenger is seated, and does not have their seat belt on, then a bright red light flashes in front of them. If the seat belt sign is on and the seat belt is not fastened, a loud alarm sounds. This would change passenger behavior very quickly. This type of system already exists in many cars. I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented in passenger aircraft.

I haven't patented this brilliant idea, so feel free to steal it

 

[Quickstatus]

That's a great idea!!!.

 

[dajop]

I really don't care if passengers get hurt because they weren't wearing a seat belt. However, I do care if they injure other people because of their stupidity.

There is, what seems to me, a quite simple solution to this. If a passenger is seated, and does not have their seat belt on, then a bright red light flashes in front of them. If the seat belt sign is on and the seat belt is not fastened, a loud alarm sounds. This would change passenger behavior very quickly. This type of system already exists in many cars. I'm surprised it hasn't been implemented in passenger aircraft.

I haven't patented this brilliant idea, so feel free to steal it

Only would work with airlines who take their seat belt warnings seriously. But if they just have it on for the sake of it, it's difficult. After 3 hours of seat belt sign illumination without even a single bump people are going to make their own assessments and get up and use the toilets.

 

[jb747]

Cabin crew are experienced and can continue operating during that mild turbulence.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this comment. Cabin crew experience has nothing to do with the ability of the aircraft to throw them around.

 

[jb747]

Only would work with airlines who take their seat belt warnings seriously. But if they just have it on for the sake of it, it's difficult. After 3 hours of seat belt sign illumination without even a single bump people are going to make their own assessments and get up and use the toilets.

Which is a totally stupid, and quite lazy, use of the seat belt signs.

 

[Melburnian1]

Perhaps what MEL_Traveller was trying to suggest was that because cabin crew know how to place their hands on the outside of luggage bins as they move along the aircraft, they can at least steady themselves a bit more for a few seconds.

The aviation staff members' rough equivalent to 'train legs' to those of us accustomed to how to stand on trains when unable to hold on to a strap hanger, door handle or pole?

Agreed though, none of us are immune to the law of physics.

jb747, just as an aside, are you aware if scientists are working on some way to predict the hitherto unpredictable 'clear air turbulence', or is this one advancement that we will never see because it is a feat beyond even the most brilliant scientific minds?

 

[jb747]

jb747, just as an aside, are you aware if scientists are working on some way to predict the hitherto unpredictable 'clear air turbulence', or is this one advancement that we will never see because it is a feat beyond even the most brilliant scientific minds?

You occasionally hear snippets, but I have no idea how close it may be to use.

To be quite honest, I actually doubt that many of the events we hear described as 'clear air turbulence' are that at all. The radar won't help if you're not looking at it.

 

[junbugging]

because cabin crew know how to place their hands on the outside of luggage bins as they move along the aircraft, they can at least steady themselves a bit more for a few seconds.

The only serious turbulence I've experienced, hands on the outside of luggage bins just wouldn't have cut it.

 

[serfty]

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this comment. Cabin crew experience has nothing to do with the ability of the aircraft to throw them around.

It's the rare breed that can truely learn from someone else's experience.

As far as this goes in relation to cabin crew walking around while the seat belt signs are on, if they had the experience of severe turbulence, they wouldn't.

 

[Melburnian1]

serfty, but I and others observe this fairly frequently on numerous airlines.

Wouldn't a safety manager give them a briefing on what turbulence can do? What about commonsense?

Are many of these staff just so tired despite a day or 36 hours off (constant changes to working days or nights, inability to properly sleep in a succession of different hotels, stress about being away from the family if they have one) that they either don't care or don't take much notice when the 'seat belt' sign is illuminated?