Loyalty bonus - what are your thoughts on the up & coming new way to attain this?

[astrokid]

From December 2011, you will earn a Loyalty Bonus of 8,000 points for every 500 Status credits you earn within a single membership year - up to a maximum of four Loyalty bonuses per membership year. This will replace the current bonus of 5,000 points for every 450 Status credits. Yes we get more points but they are now capped. We will also lose all Loyalty Bonus Status Credits on the anniversary of our membership should we not achieve the required 500 Status Credit mark. Isn’t the purpose of a loyalty bonus to reward a passenger with bonuses for their flying? As It will become, all Bronze & some Silver members will be forever excluded from achieving a loyalty bonus as they do not make the 500 Status Credits in any given year. It Is my understanding that the majority of Qantas’ revenue come from the Bronze passengers, they account for the majority In the program. So does this mean that all Bronze and some Silver members are not loyal? I assume they are, yet they are now no longer rewarded for it by the so called Loyalty Bonus. It Is important to keep In mind that not everyone flies regularly & I truly believe that It Is as equally important to convince people to always fly Qantas regardless of whether they fly once a week or once a year.

Just wondered what everyone thought of this?

 

[thewinchester]

I covered my views on this at the Rockpool lunch, but I'll summarise that here again.

QFF expressed the view that members neither knew about or understand why they got it. My contention is that their upper tier flyers (SG, WP) already score the loyalty bonus enough and this change only benefits this group.

My views is that the intended market for this, being the lower/non-tier flyers, will never be likely to achieve a loyalty bonus and will thus lose an incentive to keep their business with the carrier.

Secondly, if QF contend that their customers didn't know what the loyalty bonus was about - what did they do to counter it? The answer - blank faces. QF needs to make better use of their marketing channels and communicate with members each time they reach a milestone (bonus, tier, first points use) to continually raise awareness - and this should be within 24hrs of that transaction occurring. A membership pack or a change in the graphics in a monthly statement simply isn't good enough.

 

[astrokid]

I covered my views on this at the Rockpool lunch, but I'll summarise that here again.

QFF expressed the view that members neither knew about or understand why they got it. My contention is that their upper tier flyers (SG, WP) already score the loyalty bonus enough and this change only benefits this group.

My views is that the intended market for this, being the lower/non-tier flyers, will never be likely to achieve a loyalty bonus and will thus lose an incentive to keep their business with the carrier.

Secondly, if QF contend that their customers didn't know what the loyalty bonus was about - what did they do to counter it? The answer - blank faces. QF needs to make better use of their marketing channels and communicate with members each time they reach a milestone (bonus, tier, first points use) to continually raise awareness - and this should be within 24hrs of that transaction occurring. A membership pack or a change in the graphics in a monthly statement simply isn't good enough.

I agree! I simply cannot understand this business decision by Qantas...

Thanks for your input! i really do need to read that thread haha SOoo long !

Hope u had a good flight home! i ended up with 2 seats to myself!

 

[TonyHancock]

Whilst it is not earth shattering the change will cost me 13,000 miles per year based upon average activity in my current year. So there is an impact for WP/WP1. I guess QF argues that the new benefits at 3600 SC's cover this. (I suspect that QF would like to argue that the additional benefits at the old PG level counterbalance this, but I don't accept that because PG was already in place before the bonus benefit was "enhanced":-|)

 

[awilcockson]

As I pointed out at the Rockpool lunch, I think this is a terrible idea. How am I supposed to teach my kids, who fly once or twice a year, that their loyalty to QF will be rewarded if their "loyalty bonus" SC count is reset each year?

edit: I find the "nobody knows about it so we'll just get rid of it" excuse a bit silly. If it's true that nobody is aware of the bonus then why not communicate it to the program members?

 

[rockyroad]

Whilst it is not earth shattering the change will cost me 13,000 miles per year based upon average activity in my current year. So there is an impact for WP/WP1. I guess QF argues that the new benefits at 3600 SC's cover this. (I suspect that QF would like to argue that the additional benefits at the old PG level counterbalance this, but I don't accept that because PG was already in place before the bonus benefit was "enhanced":-|)

It upset me at the time as the Loyalty bonus points, via JASAs, reduced my cost of flying with QF/OW. Capping the Loyalty bonus points at 32,000 sends what message to high miler WPs? To me it says, as you fly so much, are a WP and must have ample funds to support that high level of flying, we have you by the short and curlies and you don't need any further Loyalty inducements.

Then QF kicks you in the guts a second time, giving every other cabin / status tier a bigger flying points bonus, other than WPs who fly in -Y and Y. Seems we are the unwashed and unwanted, despite spending around the same money as a J based WP or a F based WP.

Then lets boost the PG goal post up from 2,100 SCs to 2,400 SC and oh just to add insult to injury learn that QF took away our ATA because they claim some WPs used the lounge when flying with other airlines, so lets just assume all WPs are equally guilty and remove the benefit, which says QF do not trust their WPs not to abuse the benefit. Now it seems nothing has changed as QF don't seem to be willing to trust even a small group of very high QF metal mileage FFers, their new WP1 tier, with ATA.

Well tell you what QF, you kicked me one time too many, I finally got the message that while my money was enjoyed by you, I was treated like Oliver Twist when I asked to be given a fair go. I guess I should thank who ever it is in QFF that decided to "Enhance" WP benefits the way they did. It has opened my eyes and given me a totally new flying experience with carriers that, 2 years ago, I would never have dreamed of flying with.

 

[rockyroad]

As I pointed out at the Rockpool lunch, I think this is a terrible idea. How am I supposed to teach my kids, who fly once or twice a year, that their loyalty to QF will be rewarded if their "loyalty bonus" SC count is reset each year?

edit: I find the "nobody knows about it so we'll just get rid of it" excuse a bit silly. If it's true that nobody is aware of the bonus then why not communicate it to the program members?

You just saw that QF have no idea about creating a true Loyalty program. The recrafted Loyalty bonus points system make it so clear that QF do not care about or reward Loyalty in the lower ranks, so why think they have another mindset when crafting Loyalty programs for their higher tiers?

Look at the fight many on AFF created to get Domestic Priority Boarding moving forward, despite it being listed as a WP benefit. That is if it ever really happens and on that issue I'm not holding my breath.

 

[awilcockson]

and oh just to add insult to injury learn that QF took away our ATA because they claim some WPs used the lounge when flying with other airlines, so lets just assume all WPs are equally guilty and remove the benefit, which says QF do not trust their WPs not to abuse the benefit. Now it seems nothing has changed as QF don't seem to be willing to trust even a small group of very high QF metal mileage FFers, their new WP1 tier, with ATA.

Well tell you what QF, you kicked me one time too many, I finally got the message that while my money was enjoyed by you, I was treated like Oliver Twist when I asked to be given a fair go. I guess I should thank who ever it is in QFF that decided to "Enhance" WP benefits the way they did. It has opened my eyes and given me a totally new flying experience with carriers that, 2 years ago, I would never have dreamed of flying with.

We get it, you are unhappy about the removal of ATA, so am I, but I don't go around hijacking every QF thread trying to turn it into an ATA removal discussion. It seems you've made your decision to move your flying away from QF, so why not live a happier life and just let if go?

 

[serfty]

It suck's!

The "nobody knows about it so we'll just get rid of it" excuse is bulldust. They know exactly what they are doing.

Someone's going to get a huge performance bonus out of this deliberate breakage of millions of pro-rated QFF points.

My daughter has about 350 SC's accumulated towards loyalty - pro rata that's over 3,000 QFF points on the current basis. Even if that were worth only $30 at 1¢ per point, in December it gunna be worth nothing.

Multiply that be several million QFF members and the scheme will have a huge reduction on liability.

:evil::evil::evil:

 

[drron]

I am in an interesting position.My anniversary date is 30/11-so do I keep my SCs for the bonus as the change is the next day,Dec 1st.
As I post mainly to AA it is only non AA earning fares and JASAs that earn me QF SCs.But I only need 95 for a bonus.
So do I hope that I will have until 30/11/12 to get those 95SCs or do I credit an upcoming LAX-BNE in J to QF.As LTP on AA I dont need it to requalify on AA.It would also give me PS!Wow.

 

[simongr]

I haven't yet done the exact numbers on my flying to see how I am impacted. My initial reaction was to not like the change but I still need to work out the impacts for me.

The arguments QF gave included that WP now get 50k potential extra points at 2400 SCs - for many that is at the expense of PG but for me PG was never much benefit - as always YMMV. QF has to fund changes to the program - this is possibly one part of how they funded WP1 perhaps.

On the nobody knows point I somewhat agree - I have people who fly a fair bit asking me how they get their loyalty bonus even though it is on the summary page!

 

[dfcatch]

IMHO - I think the loyalty bonus was actually more successful than they think.

Success = people continuing to fly QF in order to continue receiving benefits (including sudden mysterious appearances of 5000 points labelled "Loyalty Bonus").

Sometimes surveys and focus groups can give clinical (quantitive) answers, but not necessarily reflect reality.
(A common example here is politicians who make decisions by market research vs those who allow wisdom and intuition to lead, referred to as "having their finger on the pulse", a reference to the "silent majority").

Surveys and focus group research rarely provides accurate insight into the "silent majority", and this is where I feel QF has failed with this decision.

Yes, benefits including points cost. That's the point! You provide benefits both in reward for past flying, and to encourage future flying.

It just seems to me that the focus at QFF is 95% "the experience", and 5% on "maintaining loyalty".

And both areas have been "enhanced".

I think the mix needs to be more balanced.

It is important for QF to be mindful of benefit costs, and it's important to adjust benefits to get maximum bang for buck.

But they need to remember that for every benefit they cut/reduce - the negative loyalty impact is greater than the cost saving.

A better solution to the Loyalty Bonus liability cost - would have been to place a 2/3 year maximum on Loyalty SC accrual. (ie. If you didn't hit your 450 SC after 3 years, your loyalty assessment reset).

That way you still encouraged semi-regular (just shy of silver) bronze's to be loyal to QF, whilst not wasting money benefiting once a year vacation flyers (who by the way already fly VA and JQ).

Remember QF that before I was WP, I was PS, and before that I was QPNB for many years and I considered myself slavishly loyal, even though it was less than the silver annual SC earn. It was things like upgrade credits and loyalty bonus (plus real tangible QP benefits like Priority Checkin and Priority Baggage) that kept me loyal enough to become WP. And maybe in future years I may even be WP1.

I'm the exact customer whose revenue you will lose from these changes.

You only have my secure loyalty at the moment because VA refuses to join Star Alliance. When they do - I will re-evaluate.

 

[Alanslegal]

My sister's family of 4 travel from SIN to SYD each year for Christmas, with the last five or so years have been flying exclusively with QF. They're Y flyers and all their SC will be wiped off come December 1. They have been loyal to QF when flying to AUS but I guess QF doesn't appreciate that concept and will be penalising them by changing the rules. I vowed many months ago to persuade whoever I can to never fly QF, and in six weeks time, they are flying into SYD on SQ. I did also say that it means diddly squat to QF as to the loss, but four tickets is four tickets in my books.

I also had to burn points on a JASA (instead of a Y classic) for the girlfriend who would have had her 370SC wiped off too. I am flying Y that day, she was suppose to fly Y too but with the 370SC being wiped off .... she had to go J. Ok, you can tell me J is much better than Y esp. on a A380 but when you have little points as a leisure traveller, every point counts. I'd rather fly twice in Y as a leisure traveller, than once in J.

Anyway just cancelled my LAX-SYD J seats and have just a tad under 300K to blow (on 2 x Y OneWorld Awards) and that's it for me. Back to flying SQ and CX for my Asia travels, JQ to HNL, and I don't now how I will get to the USA but I'll work out something.

 

[obrienja]

Having a quick look at how it affects me (WP in the 1400-1800 SC/yr range) I get 3-4 loyalty bonuses in a year (calendar). Of course with my loyalty status credits being reset to 0 I'm bound to fall short of the 500 SCs more often than not (Murphy's Law after all). So I'm not happy about the change and as someone else noted before I was a WP I was a SG, PS and NB & those 5k points were a handy reminder of why I was being loyal over a number of years - not just a single year. Of course my individual whinging aside I think there's a larger problem for QF.

I think QF have misunderstood loyalty. They have the tiered levels for those who are loyal annually but this is a reward for regular, long-term loyalty across all those tiers from the annual family trips to the P1+ guys. At a time when people might be questioning why they should stay with QF (strikes/industrial unrest, push by Virgin, etc.) should QF be appearing to value their existing customer base?

 

[ozmille]

Not really happy about this... at the moment SWMBO needs 205SC's for her next loyalty bonus. In November she will get 200 and then in December she will loose the 245 from last membership year to start with 200 and a 500 goal :?: :evil:

 

[astrokid]

IMHO - I think the loyalty bonus was actually more successful than they think.

Success = people continuing to fly QF in order to continue receiving benefits (including sudden mysterious appearances of 5000 points labelled "Loyalty Bonus").

Sometimes surveys and focus groups can give clinical (quantitive) answers, but not necessarily reflect reality.
(A common example here is politicians who make decisions by market research vs those who allow wisdom and intuition to lead, referred to as "having their finger on the pulse", a reference to the "silent majority").

Surveys and focus group research rarely provides accurate insight into the "silent majority", and this is where I feel QF has failed with this decision.

Yes, benefits including points cost. That's the point! You provide benefits both in reward for past flying, and to encourage future flying.

It just seems to me that the focus at QFF is 95% "the experience", and 5% on "maintaining loyalty".

And both areas have been "enhanced".

I think the mix needs to be more balanced.

It is important for QF to be mindful of benefit costs, and it's important to adjust benefits to get maximum bang for buck.

But they need to remember that for every benefit they cut/reduce - the negative loyalty impact is greater than the cost saving.

A better solution to the Loyalty Bonus liability cost - would have been to place a 2/3 year maximum on Loyalty SC accrual. (ie. If you didn't hit your 450 SC after 3 years, your loyalty assessment reset).

That way you still encouraged semi-regular (just shy of silver) bronze's to be loyal to QF, whilst not wasting money benefiting once a year vacation flyers (who by the way already fly VA and JQ).

Remember QF that before I was WP, I was PS, and before that I was QPNB for many years and I considered myself slavishly loyal, even though it was less than the silver annual SC earn. It was things like upgrade credits and loyalty bonus (plus real tangible QP benefits like Priority Checkin and Priority Baggage) that kept me loyal enough to become WP. And maybe in future years I may even be WP1.

I'm the exact customer whose revenue you will lose from these changes.

You only have my secure loyalty at the moment because VA refuses to join Star Alliance. When they do - I will re-evaluate.

Very well said!

I hope Red Roo hears us all on this!

Israel.

 

[drewbles]

Re: It suck's!

The "nobody knows about it so we'll just get rid of it" excuse is bulldust. They know exactly what they are doing.

Someone's going to get a huge performance bonus out of this deliberate breakage of millions of pro-rated QFF points.

My daughter has about 350 SC's accumulated towards loyalty - pro rata that's over 3,000 QFF points on the current basis. Even if that were worth only $30 at 1¢ per point, in December it gunna be worth nothing.

Multiply that be several million QFF members and the scheme will have a huge reduction on liability.

:evil::evil::evil:

Simon acknowledged that it would have a huge impact on liability and reduce it substantially, but said 'above and beyond people simply didn't know about it'. It was then followed hotly by 'why did you get rid of upgrade credits and replace them with the loyalty bonus, and why don't you simply bring UC's back'. That one went down like a rock unfortunately

 

[dfcatch]

Re: It suck's!

Simon acknowledged that it would have a huge impact on liability and reduce it substantially, but said 'above and beyond people simply didn't know about it'. It was then followed hotly by 'why did you get rid of upgrade credits and replace them with the loyalty bonus, and why don't you simply bring UC's back'. That one went down like a rock unfortunately

IIRC it was like a rock that never went thud........ it kinda just vaporised!

 

[moa999]

Re: It suck's!

But for a lot of members here at 1000-3000 SCs per annum I think this is a benefit.
Only for those low-level (non-loyal) flyers, or those earning near WP1 that lose.

(Including carryover partial credit for previous earn)


Scs Previous Now
450 5,000 0

500	5,556	8,000
750	8,333	8,000
1000	11,111	16,000
1250	13,889	16,000
1500	16,667	24,000
1750	19,444	24,000
2000	22,222	32,000
2250	25,000	32,000
2500	27,778	32,000
2750	30,556	32,000
3000	33,333	32,000

 

[dfcatch]

Re: It suck's!

But for a lot of members here at 1000-3000 SCs per annum I think this is a benefit.
Only for those low-level (non-loyal) flyers, or those earning near WP1 that lose.

(Including carryover partial credit for previous earn)


Scs Previous Now
450 5,000 0

500	5,556	8,000
750	8,333	8,000
1000	11,111	16,000
1250	13,889	16,000
1500	16,667	24,000
1750	19,444	24,000
2000	22,222	32,000
2250	25,000	32,000
2500	27,778	32,000
2750	30,556	32,000
3000	33,333	32,000

But you can argue that the marginal benefit decreases for those with higher-tier status, and that the loyalty bonus actually delivers the most benefit, and entices the most loyalty, from lower-tier flyers.

Or at least it used to.

If you're earning 1000SCs, you're also earning a 75% or 100% points bonus on every flight, plus cabin bonus if a premium pax. If you're on AFF then you're already savvy enough to maximise your CC points earn etc.

I dare say that for many members here - 5,000 points, 8,000 points - whatever..... I mean it doesn't even cover the change fees on a International award redemption!!

Whereas for a Silver / QP member 5,000 points means a lot more.

Think of $50 in your wallet next time you use your Centurion card, and then think of the value for that $50 in the wallet of someone who's unemployed.....