Learn from this one

[TAK]

Associated topic- You may be aware, but FYI if you ride a motorbike or scooter o/s and you are not liscenced to ride a motorbike is AUS, your are not insured. Possibly preaching to the converted. I’ve done it and taken that calculated risk, thousands of others do it and have no idea

 

[Denali]

Associated topic- You may be aware, but FYI if you ride a motorbike or scooter o/s and you are not liscenced to ride a motorbike is AUS, your are not insured. Possibly preaching to the converted. I’ve done it and taken that calculated risk, thousands of others do it and have no idea

Ive spoken about this phenomena with friends. At home some would never ride a bike but when in a 3rd world country with min health care, get on a bike in thongs and no helmet - crazy.

We scuba dive, we have DAN (Divers Alert Network) for that in addition to paid insurance (which might not cover scuba) and credit card insurance (which I dont trust).

 

[Kevinfinn]

On a flight to Europe via Vietnam I had a serious medical issue (couldn't pee) so the travel insurance advised me when we got to Ho Chi Minh to go to their hospital. Superb, quick and efficient treatment. But then the insurance company wanted me to travel on to Europe with a catheter in place until I could see a urologist - which would have been 10 days later (given the rural travel we were booked to do). So we said we would prefer to return to Melbourne, the person on the advice line was horrified that I would object to wearing a catheter for up to the next five weeks. 'What if you have cancer,' she asked. Fortunately my wife is a cancer nurse and told her the prognosis was ridiculous. So we returned to Melbourne and had treatment, including an operation. Anyway, the insurance company tried and tried to say this was a pre-existing condition. God knows how and where their Chief Medical Officer got his/her qualification from, but the GP, Urologist and travel agent were marvellous and the insurance company was forced to pay out several months later. Our lesson is that you cannot trust travel insurance companies to look after you; they do not exist to help you; and they cannot be relied on. We are finishing off the trip soon, using a different travel insurance company.

 

[Frequent Frier]

Sad that this young man died. Uncertain, from the Coroner's remarks, what all the key factors may have been. Continuous dialysis is usually an ICU-type procedure for patients with acute kidney failure (which often occurs when several other vital organs are also badly damaged). In that case, damage to other organs and/or widespread infection may also have been serious issues, that would have contributed to him dying. If kidney failure were the only medical problem (after the acute event while on the quad bike tour), usually dialysis is only required a couple of times a week - in which case this patient might have been expected to be well enough to fly back to the UK between sessions of dialysis (or to last long enough after the final dialysis in hospital to make it back to the UK). In summary, it seems likely there were other serious medical issues affecting this patient - so that switching off his dialysis (while clearly a provocative act) may not have been the only event that led to him dying.

Not only does alcohol or drug use invalidate travel insurance, but so does almost any type of adventure, including moped riding, quad bike riding, and quite possibly camel riding too. His pre-existing (but apparently undeclared) condition of peritonitis in 2015 may have been followed by chronic kidney failure (even in a fairly well-looking young man). If so, then a reason he became unwell acutely on the tour would likely have been his already-damaged-kidneys' inability to deal with any extra stress. This would have implications for the ethics of his hospital care in Egypt. In any country, most ICUs would be keen to provide dialysis for some weeks to help a patient with previously normal kidney function recover from acute damage to their kidneys. But, if a patient had failing kidneys prior to the incident, many ICUs would question whether further dialysis would be followed by recovery. This patient would not be qualified to receive a kidney transplant or outpatient dialysis in Egypt. So, sadly, switching off dialysis may have been ethically justified when considering lack of further options for treatment for this patient in Egypt. (This presumes that, without any valid insurance cover, the patient would not have been able to have expensive medical evacuation from Egypt back to the UK.)

 

[TAK]

. “Our lesson is that you cannot trust travel insurance companies to look after you; they do not exist to help you; and they cannot be relied on. We are finishing off the trip soon, using a different travel insurance company.”

Thanks KE, IMO that is the bottom line.

We travel using Chubb via Amex PL and have always had claims paid ( after rigorous assessment) I do however, always wonder about a larger or more serious medical claim

 

[ellen10]

This is a very sad story.
A question about credit card travel insurance. I thought you would automatically be covered if your purchased the plane tickets (as per requirement). But is there somewhere that you need to contact them and declare a previous medical incident or problem?

 

[TAK]

CC insurance cover varies, depending on the type of card you have. Yes, every card has a different level of cover and a different policy wording. Eg Amex Ceturion card covers you for way more than a basic Amex card and bank issued cards are different again. At the end of the day you actually need to read every word of the PDS and the T&C, here is a copy of Amex Platinum card cover- https://icm.aexp-static.com/Interne...ance Benefits/Platinum_RCP_Insurance_0414.PDF
The policy wording for pre existing medical condition is pre existing medical condition, so it is pretty wide open. Because I’m fit and have limited pre exiting conditions, I’m happy with this policy. BUT as an example, when travelling to an area that DFAT has issued a travel warning, I sometimes buy a seperate policy that covers that risk. Clear as Mud?

 

[drron]

Perhaps this article is a bit more factual-
Egyptian hospital denies turning off life-support for UK tourist after £7,000 medical bill - Egypt Independent

That certainly is more likely to be true than the Daily Mail story.
You are not on life support in an ICU because you have a minor illness.

 

[ellen10]

CC insurance cover varies, depending on the type of card you have. Yes, every card has a different level of cover and a different policy wording. At the end of the day you actually need to read every word of the PDS and the T&C,
The policy wording for pre existing medical condition is pre existing medical condition, so it is pretty wide open. Because I’m fit and have limited pre exiting conditions, I sometimes buy a seperate policy that covers that risk. Clear as Mud?

Well I have read the many pages of the WOW CC policy and yes it is "as clear as mud". We are going to Fiji and will be doing some diving. It doesn't mention scuba diving particularly but in the special exclusions it does mention cave diving, which we won't be doing. I don't think we fit into the need to advise of pre existing medical conditions list. Although my husband did break his neck 3 years ago kayaking, but fully healed. Maybe I should ring the insurance company? I usually take out separate travel insurance but many say it is not required.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

How dreadful. I’m just wondering why the Insurance company felt that alcohol was the contributing factor and if a blood test was taken, at what level he was for them to decide that. Given they were biking it just doesn’t sound right.

Does not need to be the contributing factor, alcohol just needs to be present in the bloodstream ata level deemed to intoxicating (and that is not clear cut).

Many policies will not cover you if you are drunk, and what constitutes being drunk is it seems somewhat open to interpretation.

ie

We will not pay
26 You were under the influence or addicted to intoxicating liquor or drugs except a drug prescribed to you by a Medical Adviser, and taken in accordance with their instructions.

So it needs to be remembered that if you are overseas and heavily drink (or maybe even just have several drinks) that if you break a leg etc that you may not be covered.

Given they were biking it just doesn’t sound right.

If he had a "big night" the evening prior he could still easily have significant blood alcahol present the next day.

 

[Pushka]

Does not need to be the contributing, alcohol just needs to be present in the bloodstream.

Many policies will not cover you if you are drunk, and what constitutes being drunk is it seems somewhat open to interpretation.

So it needs to be remembered that if you are overseas and heavily drink that if you break a leg etc that you may not be covered.

If he had a "big night" the evening prior he could still easily have significant blood alcahol present the next day.

Just yowsers. What a huge out for the insurance company then.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If I contemplate mountain climbing in Nepal, canoeing the upper reaches of the Amazon, or, as in this case "quad biking in Egypt",
.

As an aside many tourists would assume that bog standard TI would cover them for the above, when many policies would not cover any of those.

Indeed quad biking on some policies is specifically excluded.

Also with TID:
If you get injured we look after you but not the quad bike. If you’re hiring a quad bike or using it as part of a tour, make sure you know what your liability is if the vehicle is damaged or if you injure someone or their property while you are on the bike. This can be costly, and is not covered by your Travel Insurance Direct policy.


How many tourists without bike licenses hire mopeds or motorbikes on holidays? And remember too that if you are a passenger your cover is void too if the driver is not licensed.

10 Your claim Arises from being in control of a Moped or Scooter without a current Australian motorcycle or drivers licence or you are a passenger travelling on a Moped or Scooter that is in the control of a person who does not hold a current motorcycle or drivers licence valid for the country you are travelling in.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just yowsers. What a huge out for the insurance company then.

Jordan Darney, 21, fell out of a third storey window in Prague and woke up in a hospital bed minus a spleen and with shattered elbows and pelvis.

A medical flight back to Australia would cost tens of thousands of dollars. He was shocked to learn he was not covered by his travel insurance policy.

His coverage was void because he had registered a blood alcohol reading of 0.144 per cent.

He had been drunk when he fell.

"I had insurance so I thought I would be ok," he told Hack last year, speaking from the Prague hospital bed.

"That hasn't been the case."

When he made it home one month later Jordan had clocked a $100,000 medical bill.

Why you should read your travel insurance fine print

 

[Pushka]

Jordan Darney, 21, fell out of a third storey window in Prague and woke up in a hospital bed minus a spleen and with shattered elbows and pelvis.

A medical flight back to Australia would cost tens of thousands of dollars. He was shocked to learn he was not covered by his travel insurance policy.

His coverage was void because he had registered a blood alcohol reading of 0.144 per cent.

He had been drunk when he fell.

"I had insurance so I thought I would be ok," he told Hack last year, speaking from the Prague hospital bed.

"That hasn't been the case."

When he made it home one month later Jordan had clocked a $100,000 medical bill.

Why you should read your travel insurance fine print

He did blow way over. I would hope some sanity would come into play and Insurance companies would not refuse a claim where a person registered .02 or similar. On the other hand, we are dealing with Insurance companies.....

 

[RB]

He did blow way over. I would hope some sanity would come into play and Insurance companies would not refuse a claim where a person registered .02 or similar. On the other hand, we are dealing with Insurance companies.....

Again just a bit further down in a report on the Darney incident there seems to be some perspective provided-the company says they decline about 0.0016% of claims due to alcohol consumption. About 4 a year declined because of alcohol so I think the sanity is there
Why you should read your travel insurance fine print - Hack - triple j

 

[JohnK]

Insurance companies are awful.

I've learned something new with this thread. Type 2 diabetes is an existing condition that needs to be declared on a travel insurance policy? Why? How would that affect delayed flights, broken legs or luggage damaged/lost?

Would the premium be affected?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Insurance companies are awful.

I've learned something new with this thread. Type 2 diabetes is an existing condition that needs to be declared on a travel insurance policy? Why? How would that affect delayed flights, broken legs or luggage damaged/lost?

Would the premium be affected?

Obviously, read the PDS for your particular company. With travel insurance you can usually accept cover under the standard premium provided you don't want coverage for pre-existing illnesses. Although many policies (free CC policies included), automatically cover things like diabetes provided it is under control.

 

[leilajake]

This is my insurance story.

The one thing NOT mentioned in most Travel Insurance Policy PDS is what happens between taking out the policy and leaving for the trip!

In July 2017 I took out travel insurance for a cruise we are taking July 2018. Being perfectly fit and healthy l had no pre-existing to declare. On September 15 2017 l was told to go to the emergency depart by my Doctor (I live in Victoria Australia) suspected l had a DVT in my left leg. Turned out I did have a clot but it had also broken off and gone to my lungs..a Pulmonary Embolism. After 2 days in hospital i was sent home on blood thinners. Thankfully l have been very lucky and a couple of weeks ago was advised that clots in my leg and lungs have completely dissolved and feel great.

Obviously l am still on blood thinners for at least 12 mths. I decided to “do the right thing” and advise the insurance company (QBE via Qantas at the time of booking my flights) of my illness even though l was told l had no “duty to”. For 2 weeks l was told by the QBE “OffShore” insurance/medical departments that whilst l would be covered for cancellation up to we “board the plane” once l fly out my condition wouldn’t be covered UNLESS l took out an extra “pre-existing” policy!.

I discussed this with my Insurance Broker and Solictor and both decided after reading the PDS supplied at the time of taking out the policy that this was incorrect. In fact the PDS made no mention of what happens when a new medical condition occurs during taking out the policy and athe commencement of the trip. This was a new condition and QBE couldn’t class it as a new condition UNTIL l board the plane then class it as a “Pre-Existing” condition once l board the flight.

During my many conversations with the “Off Shore” call centre l asked to be referred to QBE Medical advisor in Australia, but was constantly ignored. Finally after escalating the matter l was FINALLY called by a QBE Australia employee and within 5 minutes she agreed that the Call Centre had given me the wrong information and l WOULD be covered. She agreed that l had no obligation to advise them, but had appreciated the fact l had. She has provided “IN WRITING” confirmation that l am covered for all, “clot events” whilst on my holiday even if it’s in the same left leg.

It is disappointing that l had to go thru so many calls to get the confirmation l expected. It is frustrating as being the “dog with a bone” person that l am, l wasn’t going to let it go, but many people would have just paid the further fee, even though they didn’t have to.

My husband was an insurance assessor so l am well aware of how Insurance companies go to extreme lengths to minimise claims. I prefer to have conversations with Insurance companies before the event to ensure l am covered for what l expect. Hopefully l won’t get another clot, but at least l feel comfortable going on my trip knowing that l will now be covered.

 

[Pushka]

This is my insurance story. The one thing NOT mentioned in most Travel Insurance Policy PDS is what happens between taking out the policy and leaving for the trip! In July 2017 I took out travel insurance for a cruise we are taking July 2018. Being perfectly fit and healthy l had no pre-existing to declare. On September 15 2017 l was told to go to the emergency depart by my Doctor (I live in Victoria Australia) suspected l had a DVT in my left leg. Turned out I did have a clot but it had also broken off and gone to my lungs..a Pulmonary Embolism. After 2 days in hospital i was sent home on blood thinners. Thankfully l have been very lucky and a couple of weeks ago was advised that clots in my leg and lungs have completely dissolved and feel great. Obviously l am still on blood thinners for at least 12 mths. I decided to “do the right thing” and advise the insurance company (QBE via Qantas at the time of booking my flights) of my illness even though l was told l had no “duty to”. For 2 weeks l was told by the QBE “OffShore” insurance/medical departments that whilst l would be covered for cancellation up to we “board the plane” once l fly out my condition wouldn’t be covered UNLESS l took out an extra “pre-existing” policy!. I discussed this with my Insurance Broker and Solictor and both decided after reading the PDS supplied at the time of taking out the policy that this was incorrect. In fact the PDS made no mention of what happens when a new medical condition occurs during taking out the policy and athe commencement of the trip. This was a new condition and QBE couldn’t class it as a new condition UNTIL l board the plane then class it as a “Pre-Existing” condition once l board the flight. During my many conversations with the “Off Shore” call centre l asked to be referred to QBE Medical advisor in Australia, but was constantly ignored. Finally after escalating the matter l was FINALLY called by a QBE Australia employee and within 5 minutes she agreed that the Call Centre had given me the wrong information and l WOULD be covered. She agreed that l had no obligation to advise them, but had appreciated the fact l had. She has provided “IN WRITING” confirmation that l am covered for all, “clot events” whilst on my holiday even if it’s in the same left leg. It is disappointing that l had to go thru so many calls to get the confirmation l expected. It is frustrating as being the “dog with a bone” person that l am, l wasn’t going to let it go, but many people would have just paid the further fee, even though they didn’t have to. My husband was an insurance assessor so l am well aware of how Insurance companies go to extreme lengths to minimise claims. I prefer to have conversations with Insurance companies before the event to ensure l am covered for what l expect. Hopefully l won’t get another clot, but at least l feel comfortable going on my trip knowing that l will now be covered.

I had a very similar story to you. But the opposite experience with the Insurance Company. Had booked an extensive trip to go to Alaska in June but in February was diagnosed with a DVT in my jugular vein (rare). We were insured with TID. I informed them of the dvt thinking they would allow me to cancel and get my funds back as I didn’t want to go anymore (we were going very remote = significant risk) but they told me I would be completely covered if I developed another clot. Mmm. But I’m scared to go now and wanted to cancel. But they wouldn’t provide cancellation refund. So I checked the free insurance that came with the credit card and that allowed me to cancel as it was a completely new illness when I’d paid.

Further tests determined I have a blood clotting condition so now I’m on permanent blood thinners (xarelto) and have to take out a pre-existing policy with Insureandgo.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

This whole thread is quite worrying, when many of us do expect that our insurance will cover us. The alcohol thing is a worry. If people drink heavily and injure themselves due to it by doing stupid things, I can understand, but what if a couple go out to celebrate their anniversary and share a couple of bottles of bubbles, and being smart people decide to walk home instead of driving. On the way, they are mugged by thugs and one suffers a broken hip whilst being dragged by the handbag straps? In hospital blood samples reveal said person was 0.09 BAC. Does this mean they are not covered for the medical costs? That was a hypothetical but could happen in many areas, even the most safest of destinations.

And, pre-existing. I though that was pretty self explanatory, but late last year I ended up with an infected foot whilst O/S We treated it with broad spectrum antibiotics (not prescribed as we were in a remote region) and dressings with Betadine. On arrival home, I went to the Doc and he was happy enough with how it was progressing but took a swab regardless as a precaution. A few days later he phoned me and his first question was "How are you feeling" . My reply was "just fine, right up until you asked me that question". Turned out the swab indicated that I had Diphtheria bacteria present on the wound. The end of the story being I was notified to the Heath Department as Diphtheria is a notifiable infectious disease, however I did not contract it (I had been vaccinated for it). So does that mean I now have to notify a travel insurer that I've had Diphtheria? I'm certainly on record of having had it, even with the heath department. I could think of many similar issues. What about the viruses that have a tendency to return, Ross River, Malaria, etc. If you know you have a hole in a tooth, but is causing no problems (yet), should that be notified?