JQ flight runs dry.....of H2O

[k_sheep]

There are now non alcohol based sanitizers out there, which are better than alcohol. PM me if you want a sample as they are part of my product range.

However it will be up to you to explain the difference during any over officious inspection.

Heh. At $1 a bottle (tend to buy mine when I'm in Malaysia) I'm happy enough to toss them occassionally. Thanks for the offer though

 

[Shelf]

Couldn't they have used an appropriate liquid to assist flushing ? Victoria Bitter seems to fit the bill.

 

[wafliron]

Water Treatment Methods - Travelers' Health - CDC

Directions for Boiling Water

• Boil water vigorously for 1 minute and allow it to cool to room temperature (do not add ice).
  
• At altitudes greater than 6,562 feet (>2,000 m), boil water for 3 minutes or use chemical disinfection after water has been boiled for 1 minute

Very interesting Austman, thanks for posting. That advice is a direct contradiction of what I've previously read, from what I'd consider pretty reliable sources (who suggested 10-15 minutes), but I'll definitely defer to the CDC on this one!

Still, I'd say my original point still stands - unless the kettles (or kettle-equivalents used on planes) are vastly different to regular households ones in how long they boil water for, I doubt that the water used in tea/coffee is "vigourously boiled for 3 minutes"

As a general rule it's not safe to drink based on past studies, in fact in the USA where you think potable water would not be an issue, a test done by the EPA found issues with 15% of the 327 samples, resulting in specific legislation to improve the quality:

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/airlinewater/pdfs/fs_airlinewater_adwr_3 26 rn.sf.pdf

Interesting stuff, thanks markis.

Given the above report is from 2008, the US EPA website says the recommendations became law in the USA in 2009, and the WHO also issued a set of international guidelines (looks like only guidelines admittedly) around the same time, I would think the situation has greatly improved now though?

I guess this is one area where I go with my gut (no pun intended) - I can't think of a single case of someone I know getting a stomach bug in a plane, so I figure the water can't be a big problem. I'm sure others will know of cases, but "no one I know, ever" is a big enough sample that I'm OK being guided by it.

As an aside, found a piece of crazy bureaucracy while reading the section of the US EPA's website covering these rules - apparently the EPA regulates drinking water on planes in the States, but a different agency, the FDA, regulates ice :shock:

Passengers were charged for bottled water during the outage.

This part is... unbelievable. I know they're a LCC, but charging for drinking water when the plane has run out three hours into a ten hour flight is despicable.

 

[Austman]

Still, I'd say my original point still stands - unless the kettles (or kettle-equivalents used on planes) are vastly different to regular households ones in how long they boil water for, I doubt that the water used in tea/coffee is "vigourously boiled for 3 minutes"

Probably depends on the equipment/crew routine? I don't think I'll worry too much about coffee/tea. Some of the newer planes use water boilers that need pressure relief valves - so there's a bit of pressure there. The manufacturers claim they heat water to 87 degrees (by thermostat) in as little as 7 minutes (for 4l) and then keep re-heating it. And some of the newer coffee makers use instant heat technology - no waiting at all. Maybe not 100% bacteria free. Probably not extremely dangerous either.

 

[wafliron]

Probably depends on the equipment/crew routine? I don't think I'll worry too much about coffee/tea.

I'm not worrying about the cold drinking water, either Now that I've said that, I'm sure I'll get sick on my next flight.

Some of the newer planes use water boilers that need pressure relief valves - so there's a bit of pressure there. The manufacturers claim they heat water to 87 degrees (by thermostat) in as little as 7 minutes (for 4l) and then keep re-heating it. And some of the newer coffee makers use instant heat technology - no waiting at all. Maybe not 100% bacteria free. Probably not extremely dangerous either.

I can't find anything I'd call 100% authoritative, but a bit of quick Googling suggests 10 minutes or more at 80 degrees is sufficient to sterilise water - so assuming the newer water boilers don't let the temp drop too much before starting a re-heat cycle, and the water has sat in there a while before being used, they should be 100% safe. I doubt the "instant heat" ones would be though (if the water was bad in the first place).

 

[Austman]

I doubt the "instant heat" ones would be though (if the water was bad in the first place).

I think these are pressure rated coffee makers. They probably heat the water to beyond boiling point. But I admit I'm guessing.

 

[Pushka]

Boiling water doesn't remove giardia unless its boiled for 3 minutes at high altitude. That's on land. Not sure about the impact of flight altitudes.

This would be a flight from hell.

 

[wafliron]

I think these are pressure rated coffee makers. They probably heat the water to beyond boiling point. But I admit I'm guessing.

Probably, but given you're meant to boil for 3 minutes at 9,000ft (water at approx 90 degrees) I doubt any realistic level of temperature for a second or two is going to do it. I am, of course, also guessing though

Boiling water doesn't remove giardia unless its boiled for 3 minutes at high altitude. That's on land. Not sure about the impact of flight altitudes.

From what has been posted previously, and some Googling, 3 minutes would be about right on a plane too - minimum cabin pressure on modern commercial aeroplanes is the equivalent of about 8,000 feet, and the 3 minute recommendation is for 9,000 feet. Some modern jumbos maintain higher cabin pressure though - e.g. A380 and 787.

Completely irrelevant to the topic on hand, but while Googling I learnt that the Emivest SJ30 business jet can maintain sea-level cabin pressure at 41,000 feet - pretty impressive!

 

[AVC]

I doubt they boil the water vigorously for 3 minutes before making the tea and coffee.

How does one boil water "vigorously"


As my mother used to say "let me boil you up a cup of coughnic". Boiling doesn't cure all ills...


PAX - Could I have a coffee please?
FA - I'm sorry, we're out of water
PAX - That's OK, just bring me the dry coffee and a spoon.
FA - oooookay....
PAX - Munch, munch, munch, mmmmm, good coffee!



BTW, I always carry hand sanitiser.
And water.
Sometimes, the water gets confiscated.

 

[Pushka]

PAX - That's OK, just bring me the dry coffee and a spoon.
FA - oooookay....
PAX - Munch, munch, munch, mmmmm, good coffee!
BTW, I always carry hand sanitiser.
And water.
Sometimes, the water gets confiscated.

I'd do that with Milo.

This was an international flight so not much ability to byo water.

 

[wafliron]

How does one boil water "vigorously"

Dunno? Full boil instead of simmer, maybe? The term kept popping up during Googling today, so it must have some meaning

As my mother used to say "let me boil you up a cup of coughnic". Boiling doesn't cure all ills...

True. But (again, based on today's Googling), done for long enough it is meant to get rid of all biological nasties except for, perhaps, "spores" (can't recall what that meant exactly).

PAX - Could I have a coffee please?
FA - I'm sorry, we're out of water
PAX - That's OK, just bring me the dry coffee and a spoon.
FA - oooookay....
PAX - Munch, munch, munch, mmmmm, good coffee!

For some reason that reminds me of Anne-from-Arrested-Development's "mayonegg"

 

[Pushka]

Vigorously just means lots of bubbles.

 

[Mal]

Shouldn't the plane have diverted somewhere for a splash'n'dash?

Just seems strange that they carried on, and whoever within JQ made that decision should be punished.

 

[medhead]

How does one boil water "vigorously"


As my mother used to say "let me boil you up a cup of coughnic". Boiling doesn't cure all ills...

<snip>



BTW, I always carry hand sanitiser.
And water.
Sometimes, the water gets confiscated.

The water is vigorous in its action while boiling.

True, boiling water won't remove chemicals. But then neither will hand sanitiser. Boiling will however remove "bugs" which is what we are talking about in context.

Anyway, I still have my water purifier sack that the Australian Army gave me. Apparently they're very effective at cleaning up water. Happy to loan it out.

 

[anat0l]

I assume that the cabin crew made the call ultimately whether they would continue "selling" water or giving it away.

I'm not sure whether cabin crew make a commission on buy-on-board sales, including both F&B and Duty Free.

Another thought is that if there was a reconciliation of the stock versus cash take-in, the whole situation with the cabin crew might run afoul with the bean counters, i.e. either they gave away stock, or they stole money from the float. Their "kindness" may not be viewed favourably at least at first contact.

 

[Mal]

I assume that the cabin crew made the call ultimately whether they would continue "selling" water or giving it away.

Head office would have been phoned by the captain pretty much straight away you assume. So its the entire jetstar process which failed.

 

[Mal Ware]

So people would have been using the toilets (those that could not wait) and doing number 2's without a flushing system. Would not like to have been on an exit row near to the toilets.

Is the crew on a Honolulu to Melbourne flight Australian based or are they farmed out from Jetstar Asia?

At least they didn't get food poisoning.

It will all be worth it when Jestar gives them a $50.00 voucher for their troubles.

 

[anat0l]

Head office would have been phoned by the captain pretty much straight away you assume. So its the entire jetstar process which failed.

I would assume the captain would call about the fact that there is no more (potable) water, but I highly doubt management would've answered back about addressing the lack of drinking water for the pax, especially in terms of laterally thinking that there is actually bottled water on board.

On top of that, I doubt there would be enough water in the buy on board to give every passenger one bottle. You could start an in-cabin war by forcing people to "bid" over limited bottles of water (or even other refreshments).

So in the end I see the FAs were left to make an unpleasant decision. That in no way implies that they bear the full culpability of this incident (if any).

 

[oz_mark]

Head office would have been phoned by the captain pretty much straight away you assume. So its the entire jetstar process which failed.

I would have thought something like this would have had a documented procedure.....

 

[markis10]

Meanwhile there is a HNL lav truck driver going around wondering why he still has that nagging feeling he forgot to do something last week and wondering why all these Australian numbers keep calling him on the hand phone.