Jetstar accused of exploiting cabin crew

[anchew]

Jetstar accused of exploiting cabin crew - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

FYI for anyone who missed it.

 

[thewinchester]

Read the story whilst perusing my RSS feeds tonight. Compelling reading, and good to see that Sen. Xenophon is treating the issue with the appropriate level of seriousness.

Assuming the report is accurate as published, 20hr working day is insane to the point of inhumane. And I would concur that the risk to passenger safety in the event of an emergency could be compromised to the point where loss of life is increased - which frankly is an unacceptable one no matter how much a company might be insured for.

Xenophon has a real bee in his bonnet about aviation, and I dare say the industry will be better off from the level of real oversight it is starting to receive. Be interested on what the Pilot/crew groups think about tis view.

---------
Sent from my Roman era abacus.

 

[elbarto]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the hours of airline crews regulated by law?

 

[medhead]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the hours of airline crews regulated by law?

Yeah. I'm confused by this as OHS legislation applies a 16 hour limit. Can only guess it is different for international flights or something.

 

[milehighclub]

Pilot hours are regulated by CASA and thus by law. Flight attendant hours are only limited by the EBA (if in Australia) or their contract (if an overseas base including UK, Auckland etc) . No law currently governs flight attendants.

20 hours is the limit for all Qantas longhaul flight attendants regardless of base (short haul crew have a lower limit).

This can be extended however if:
A) The duty over 20 hours was not known by the company - so something after door closure has caused an extension of duty, like ATC or weather.
B) If the company does know, then they must ask the crew if they are willing to extended beyond 20 hours. This usually happens in the case of diversions.

20 hour duties are certainly not rare, especially when we have some of the longest sectors, you only need a short delay because of weather, delayed passengers etc and your already near the 20 hour limit.

In regards to the Jetstar flight to DPS. While the actually duty time is not really an issue (Qantas used to have us operate LAX-JFK-LAX in a single sector which had similar hours and we of course operate sectors much longer than them) it's the back of the clock flying, and minimum rest at home which is fatiguing and dangerous.

Qantas has introduced the IATA fatigue management system which was recognised by ICAO 2 years ago that fatigue is a serious problem to airline crew. Crew can now use fatigue as a reason for calling in sick for a duty. I imagine Jetstar will follow with a similar thing.

 

[medhead]

I find this all hard to believe. Totally understand that flying is different but OHS legislation places a firm 16 hours limit to other industries. It would be interesting to know how they get around that.

As for fatigue being a reason to be sick. Seems airlines are also behind other industries, well mining. 12 years ago fitness for work was a big focus including coming to work well rested. If not fit for work then sick leave was the go, as falling asleep at work was a safety risk as well as a risk to expensive equipment. Certainly this is hard to manage if people wish to take advantage. But then managers get paid to do that stuff.

 

[oz_mark]

Assuming these things are only partially correct, there are some extrememly disturbing elements.

"Whilst illness, etc is accepted by your employer, poor time management is not.... TET requires from you an undertaking that you will not repeat these behaviours in the workplace," the letter said.

This is appalling, and I can only suggest that the management of TET take their own advice and sacks themselves.

 

[milehighclub]

I find this all hard to believe. Totally understand that flying is different but OHS legislation places a firm 16 hours limit to other industries. It would be interesting to know how they get around that.

There must obviously be an exemption in place. We operate some of the longest flights in the world. Limit it to 16 hours, and all flights to the states will be stopping somewhere along the way.

In saying that, not many jobs give you a paid 3-4 hour break either with a bed. So while we operate long sectors, there are measures in place to make sure we are rested.

 

[stew1e]

There must obviously be an exemption in place. We operate some of the longest flights in the world. Limit it to 16 hours, and all flights to the states will be stopping somewhere along the way.

In saying that, not many jobs give you a paid 3-4 hour break either with a bed. So while we operate long sectors, there are measures in place to make sure we are rested.

And that is probably how they get around the OHS ruling, by providing a break and a bed. (as long as you get it of course!)

 

[arraitch]

Note that this story has been updated with a response from JQ at Jetstar denies exploiting cabin crew - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation).

 

[awilcockson]

I've got to admit I'm amazed at how poorly the asian based crew are paid!

$258/mth, plus $7/hr flown, no sick pay, only 10 days annual leave (I'm assuming, based on the "half the Australian crew entitlement" comment) and only base pay + $9/DAY whilst on annual leave is pretty damn poor.

Assuming a 40 hour week, that's only $344 a week, which is terrible.

 

[serfty]

...

Assuming a 40 hour week, that's only $344 a week, which is terrible.

No necessarily; it depends where you live.

See this post:

Anyone know if the Thai crew wages are decent at home for them? ($258 per month base plus $7 per flying hour AUD) ...

Assuming they flew ~100hours/month then they are close to earning AUD1,000 or ~THB32,000/month. That is a very handy salary in Thailand considering the majority of Thais earn <THB6,000/month.

 

[richie9x]

I've got to admit I'm amazed at how poorly the asian based crew are paid!

Assuming a 40 hour week, that's only $344 a week, which is terrible.

I know Air NZ hire some Chinese FA contractors for their flights to/from China. And they earn about the same as that.

To a Thai that would be a pretty good pay.

I have lived and south east Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Philippines) . Some of locals I was working there with could speak three languages fluently, held a degree from an overseas university, and had a good office job but were paid AU$250-300 per week. Of course living costs there are a lot less than in Australia.

Someone working behind a counter in McDonalds or 7-11 would be lucky to get $100 per week.

 

[TheInsider]

A little bit off topic, but why do people always seem to have a go at 'Asians' doing 'Australian' jobs?
1st point - People always seem to complain about how bad Australian Customer Service is and how good it is on MAS, SIA, EK, EY, GA. An Australian company provides jobs to people from overseas and they get shot down.
2nd point - Wages are very high in Australia compared to the rest of the world. You have some people say that x company charges so much more money and y company is so much cheaper etc etc. Then you have people say everyone should be on Australian wages, now if this was the case should every international carrier that arrives in to Australia pay their crew the Australian award?

Once again this seems to be blown out of the water. Cabin crew do SIN-LHRvv, LAX-SYD/MELvv, SYD-DFWvv, so if you're going to complain about a possible 14hr flight you shouldn't be doing the job.

 

[awilcockson]

No necessarily; it depends where you live.

OK, fair enough, still seems as though they are being shafted by their employment contract though.

 

[yohy?!]

OK, fair enough, still seems as though they are being shafted by their employment contract though.

As usual it seems like the passengers are the ones getting shafted for QF-level priced tickets operated by Thai JQ Cabin Crew.

 

[TheInsider]

As usual it seems like the passengers are the ones getting shafted for QF-level priced tickets operated by Thai JQ Cabin Crew.

No wonder why JQ are offering return airfares to NRT for around $500. How dare they.

So why are Thai and all asian based carriers on par and usually more expensive than JQ then?

 

[oz_mark]

Once again this seems to be blown out of the water. Cabin crew do SIN-LHRvv, LAX-SYD/MELvv, SYD-DFWvv, so if you're going to complain about a possible 14hr flight you shouldn't be doing the job.

I think you will find there are significant differences between working 14 hours and 20 hours. You try a 20 hour shift overnight, and see how you feel.

 

[medhead]

Once again this seems to be blown out of the water. Cabin crew do SIN-LHRvv, LAX-SYD/MELvv, SYD-DFWvv, so if you're going to complain about a possible 14hr flight you shouldn't be doing the job.

the issue is not a one off 14 hour flight. The issue is the amount rest in between these flights and also the number of cycles. From what I've seen we don't really know the details. But I'm sure we can all appreciate that if you are doing daily cycles of 17 hours of duty for 2 weeks then it's not good.

You know I once worked 150 hours in 12 days. That's nowhere near 17 hour days, but by the last day I was wrecked.

 

[drron]

Of course when I was a young fellow i worked 120 hours straight in an Orthopaedic ward.Over Easter.In the hospital that took those from the Mt.Panorama easter bike races.Then slept for 24 hours.
Which is why I became a Union Rep,led NSW RMOs on their first Industrial action and was President of the RMOs Assoc when we got the 40 hour week.
Which is why I did not get a job the next year and went to the country.