I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

[Lord Mud]

I am a late comer to the discussion and glad for the outcome but would like to know why if there is a "platinum desk" and a gold desk" that the CSA's who man them aren't more attuned to the issues that these customers deal with and as such information pertinent to those types of travelers (3, 5 10 year rolling averages etc) aren't available. I would expect these CSA's would be somewhat more senior and as such the array of information available should match. The OP's issue strikes me as a little bullet in foot issue considering spend etc.

 

[vcontherun]

I am a member of both QFF and Marco Polo.

Macro Polo appears to be more flexible in granting extension. I was about to reach Silver but couldn't manage to fly 1 additional sector before the expiry date. Then, upon my request, they extended it for 1 month. I still couldn't make it afterwards and checked again if that was possible for extending for 1 more month. They did allow for further extension and finally I made it.

 

[Trivalve]

I passed 25 years with QFF last year. Have been variously Silver, Gold, Plat, now Lifetime Gold, virtually all done on discount economy (no paid First for me!) You would think that you'd get a little note from them for 25 years' 'service' but no, not a cracker. I reckon it's worth Lifetime Gold right there on its own, but I would have been happy with an email. Oh well...

 

[BAM1748]

I passed 25 years with QFF last year. Have been variously Silver, Gold, Plat, now Lifetime Gold, virtually all done on discount economy (no paid First for me!) You would think that you'd get a little note from them for 25 years' 'service' but no, not a cracker. I reckon it's worth Lifetime Gold right there on its own, but I would have been happy with an email. Oh well...

I would rather not have an email, what 25 years and all I get is an email.

Gone are the glory days, I remember and still have a bottle of red in a nice wooden box sent to my father with a peronsalised label by Ansett as the most freuquent flyer of the month. One day I'll dig it out and take a photo of it, then put it away again. as the wine has probably gone off by now but to bring out the nostalgia again.

Matt

 

[nannieann]

I have a problem with the OP getting knocked back, yet there are plenty of reports of people recently getting bumped over the line on their INITIAL qualification, or similar. Which to be honest - surprises me as QF are usually hard and fast on this.

I've been surprised at how "loose" they've anecdotally been lately - and yet they go all hard nose at the OP who clearly is a textbook case of allowing discretion.

It's an illustration of everything that is wrong with QFF.

I wonder if the status cut off has become more cut and dried with the improvements in computerisation. My husband and I have been QFF members since 1987 and Platinum for probably 15 of those years. A couple of times some years ago we did not reach the required number of status credits, but retained our Platinum status. A friend, who worked for a large international company and had attained Platinum, was still on this level after he retired despite the fact that his only travel was a trip to the UK in economy every second year!

 

[JessicaTam]

I wonder if the status cut off has become more cut and dried with the improvements in computerisation. My husband and I have been QFF members since 1987 and Platinum for probably 15 of those years. A couple of times some years ago we did not reach the required number of status credits, but retained our Platinum status. A friend, who worked for a large international company and had attained Platinum, was still on this level after he retired despite the fact that his only travel was a trip to the UK in economy every second year!

"Yes Virginia, there is Life Time Platinum"

:shock:

 

[paulobrien56]

This does not surprise me. I was a loyal QF business traveller for 20 years but over the last 5 years I have become very disenchanted with Qantas. Their service is still extremely good but their frequent flyer program has gone to cough since Virgin introduced business class, lounges, velocity FF program AND alliances with my favourite international airlines - Singapore, AIr NZ, Delta, Air Berlin, Etihad etc. Instead of upping the ante and providing better FF benefits to compete with Virgin, they have been continually reducing and restricting the benefits AND increasing the "taxes and surcharges" while Virgin has been reducing them. Very poor strategic management in my opinion.

I have now moved ALL of my business to Virgin and I haven't looked back. I should have done it years ago. Qantas is on the slippery slope if it keeps cutting benefits to their most lucrative customers - business travellers.

...and ouch it hurts.

I'm a long time QFF (and AFF) member, happily enjoying my WP membership for the last decade on the back of paying cash for QF International First flights. Never quite made Platinum One but have about a 1600 SC annual average over the last 10 years. Never once failed to retain WP through actual flights, never been comped a membership year.

My wife and I had our second child in 2014, so I put my work travel on hold for 18 months to spend time with my family.

As a result my I have only flown 180SCs this year, and my WP membership falls back to Lifetime Gold on 30 September.

No problems says I - I need to fly again in October. I'll book travel for myself and my business partner - $26,000 worth of First flights to Asia and the USA. OneWorld Emerald membership will be handy for lounge access especially in the US, so I'll ask Qantas Loyalty for a 12 day grace period on my WP membership, as I'll have reached 1200SCs to retain it again before I fly back to Australia in mid October.

Now I've been guilty of reading these threads before, with people pondering Qantas' refusal to budge on membership years or grant status extensions, but I never thought I'd feel the sting of refusal for myself.

Apparently my lack of flying this year is the end of the conversation. No 'parental leave' allowance like Virgin. No 'thanks for your 10 year loyalty as a WP'. No 'thanks for just booking $26k of flights with us'.

All I get is that Qantas would rather burn a loyal customer over what would be a 12 day extension to a 3650 day WP membership run.

Okay, venting over. Off to go see what Star Alliance offer for Circle Pacific type First fares.

 

[drron]

Now this is not me mentioning my status for self-aggrandisement it is important to answer the feelings of trivalve.The flight I had on AA after I had passed the 2 million mile mark was DFW-FRA.Upgraded using SWUs I got for passing that milestone.Great service.The purser informing me I had joined a VIP list and he would make sure I was looked after.Much better than an email-though I did receive that as well.

 

[Trivalve]

Well, sure, a nice bottle of wine would have been great - but nothing at all???

 

[katiebell]

I don't understand why QF are so bolshie with loyal pax, especially WP with LTG. Not extending WP is silly as a drop to LTG means that there is no need to fly QF at all as there is nothing to retain and nothing to aim for (i.e. no LTP). If (when) this happens to me I'm very likely to jump ship to another programme to reach the top tier there. If that other programme is better then bye bye QF. The degradation of the QF FF product's only purpose is to enhance the exit of once loyal members, all the more so for international pax who cannot fly QF because QF do not fly to the destinations needed but cut the SC earn on other airlines.

BTW, does anyone know why QF now list LT credits on the FF page? This did not happen when I first reached LTG but does now.

 

[jamesatfish]

BTW, does anyone know why QF now list LT credits on the FF page? This did not happen when I first reached LTG but does now.

I suspect that was added because people like myself kept asking QF to add it to our member status page. Obviously the figure has no relevance (that we know of) beyond 14000 SCs however I always wondered where I was up to in the lifetime SC count after reaching LTG and appreciate the feature.


Back to my original post, a couple of weeks have passed since the issue arose and I've learned a few things since then:

•For my travel needs, OneWorld is my best airline alliance option. They're the only alliance that offers a fare with sufficient flexibility to handle my multi-city itineraries on 5-7 day trips to the US and Asia. The Star Alliance equivalent doesn't get me where I need to go, and booking multi-city itineraries with any specific airline costs 2-3x what I pay for the OneWorld fares.

•For those OW fares, Qantas is my best airline option (in terms of physical metal). Qantas is the only OW airline that offers First to the US, and even when AA bring their 777 onto the SYD-LAX route that will coincide with QF flying First to SFO which is my usual destination, so it'll still be best to stick with QF.

•Similarly, none of the OW airlines fly First out of Asia, excepting BA out of SIN which isn't much help as no OW airline flies direct to Singapore from the US. That leaves me with CX Business out of HKG or QF Business out of NRT - and with the new A330 Business Suites I believe that QF is the better option (noting that I haven't experienced the new A330 config as yet).

•With the itinerary I have booked for my upcoming trip, the only benefit of being WP is the extra QFF point status bonus I would earn over being SG. After adjusting my travel plans from my original schedule I don't pass through any US airport with a Flagship Lounge in domestic transit; both times through LAX I'd get access on account of connecting to/from an international First flight.

•Based upon the excellent resources posted by other members in this thread, and a consideration of those status bonuses, the best OW airline for me to credit to is QF.

From all of the above, the reality is that if I ignore the pain of being initially rejected for a status extension, the economically sound choice is to continue being a QF member booking QF flights for so long as my current travel patterns remain the same.

That of course raises an interesting question. I would assume that Qantas, with all the same information as I've outlined above, would also be able to conclude that I'll keep booking with them no matter how they treat me (within reason). They would also see that in my upcoming bookings I'm paying not only for myself but for other staff members, and I'm more likely to book flights for other people based upon economic rather than emotional factors.

In that light, why would Qantas give me an automatic status extension, or even a manually requested one, if they know it has no bearing on whether I'll travel with them more or less in the immediate future?

A rhetorical question perhaps.

In any case, I'm happy with my renewed WP status, I've just given QF another $26K of revenue and the world carries on.

 

[dfcatch]

In that light, why would Qantas give me an automatic status extension, or even a manually requested one, if they know it has no bearing on whether I'll travel with them more or less in the immediate future?

A rhetorical question perhaps.

In any case, I'm happy with my renewed WP status, I've just given QF another $26K of revenue and the world carries on.

If they were smart, strategic and had an intuitive understanding of loyalty (a BIG assumption), they would absolutely want to keep you "having the love" as your unemotional, objective, rational assessments could just as easily and quickly change to another program in a heartbeat.

All it would take would be a change in schedule, new carrier fitout, change in flight habits, competitive flight pricing from another airline etc etc.

 

[Lord Mud]

That of course raises an interesting question. I would assume that Qantas, with all the same information as I've outlined above, would also be able to conclude that I'll keep booking with them no matter how they treat me (within reason). They would also see that in my upcoming bookings I'm paying not only for myself but for other staff members, and I'm more likely to book flights for other people based upon economic rather than emotional factors.

In that light, why would Qantas give me an automatic status extension, or even a manually requested one, if they know it has no bearing on whether I'll travel with them more or less in the immediate future?

A rhetorical question perhaps.

In any case, I'm happy with my renewed WP status, I've just given QF another $26K of revenue and the world carries on.

Then the only thing you may need to worry about in future is the "personalised" fare structure coming our way. If they are acutely aware as you are of your cash cow status you are prime candidate for this treatment in future.

 

[verdi]

On the international legs, not really. Flying domestic in the US, yes it does - mainly in terms of lounge access (Flagship Lounge) and the checkin/boarding process on AA domestic and American Eagle flights.



Yes, they have followed the letter of their rules, no dispute there.

I'm just being like anyone else who gets the wrong end of the rule stick - wondering why the rules are so inflexible, especially at the expense of customer loyalty.



I fail the 3 year average rule (which the first phone agent quoted and calculated for me) by 250 SC. My last 5 years were roughly 2600, 3400, 1400, 1250 and 180 SC.

Pragmatically I know I'm being a princess about this. If I pay for First I get lounge access on international legs and my Gold membership still gets Admirals Club access. I know I should just suck it up and worry about real problems.

On the other hand, I've been 100% loyal to Qantas for 16 years, WP for 10, and yet when I ask for 1 small grace in return the answer is a flat No. That's the annoying but that makes me question why I should keep flying Qantas.

james I hear you - I was in a sort of similar situation for my gold status. I do a lot of flying but usually never get to gold however I recently flew business to pek via honkers on cathay from perth. I was assured by Qantas that I would be well over the required amount to push me into gold. in fact I asked a few times to make sure before I booked. when I got back I rang them again a couple of weeks later because the flight from pek to hong kong wasn't recorded and my status hadn't been changed so rang them and they told me that I didn't get the nod because one of the flights was not a cathay flight (china southern I think) yet the flight was booked through cathay. I rang a few more times and argued the point and eventually they caved in. I was about 10-20 points shy of the upgrade. this has left me with a very sour taste. a little customer recognition goes a long way

 

[Fynsie]

Just to balance the stories of inflexibility, I was well over Gold retention (about 800 SC, needing 600) but, because it was all overseas travel with only 2 QF metal legs, I was 2 QF metal flights short. I was going to hop down to Sydney and back before the due date, but they rang me and said I was being renewed Gold, given the SC level and years of membership. No biggie for Qantas really, but a nice recognition of loyalty I thought.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just to balance the stories of inflexibility, I was well over Gold retention (about 800 SC, needing 600) but, because it was all overseas travel with only 2 QF metal legs, I was 2 QF metal flights short. I was going to hop down to Sydney and back before the due date, but they rang me and said I was being renewed Gold, given the SC level and years of membership. No biggie for Qantas really, but a nice recognition of loyalty I thought.

Well yes - but I think that in itself is a double edged sword.

QF loyalty seems to like giving 'one-off' comps for status. So this might be your time... and when you really need it in future it might not be available.

I had the same thing happen a few years ago... comped status (without asking) even though I had flights which would have taken me over the line. The next year I was short (as expected), and a three-year averaging would have potentially qualified me for a comp... but none came - it had been 'used'.

So it might not seem like a biggie for QF this year - but it could be their way of not having to give it later when it would be a 'biggie'.

 

[SydneySwan]

I had the same thing happen a few years ago... comped status (without asking) even though I had flights which would have taken me over the line. The next year I was short (as expected), and a three-year averaging would have potentially qualified me for a comp... but none came - it had been 'used'.

So it might not seem like a biggie for QF this year - but it could be their way of not having to give it later when it would be a 'biggie'.

This happened to me a few years ago (2007). I was on 1190 sc after about 9 months of my year and about to enter a quiet period of travel due to working on a Sydney-based project for a while. I knew I had a trip to NZ prior to my year end so that would give me the 10 scs I needed. However my renewed platinum card arrived in the mail a couple of months prior to year end so I used Air NZ for my trip to NZ as this enabled me to requalify for their top status.

Halfway through my next QF year I changed jobs and initially hardly travelled so ended up with only around 500 sc. I asked QF if they would kindly comp me platinum but they insisted they had done it the previous year even though I hadn't asked for it and could have qualified under my own steam. They were immovable on this so petulantly I took revenge by flying Star Alliance mostly after that. QF lost some revenue and I felt better for it.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

This happened to me a few years ago (2007). I was on 1190 sc after about 9 months of my year and about to enter a quiet period of travel due to working on a Sydney-based project for a while. I knew I had a trip to NZ prior to my year end so that would give me the 10 scs I needed. However my renewed platinum card arrived in the mail a couple of months prior to year end so I used Air NZ for my trip to NZ as this enabled me to requalify for their top status.

Halfway through my next QF year I changed jobs and initially hardly travelled so ended up with only around 500 sc. I asked QF if they would kindly comp me platinum but they insisted they had done it the previous year even though I hadn't asked for it and could have qualified under my own steam. They were immovable on this so petulantly I took revenge by flying Star Alliance mostly after that. QF lost some revenue and I felt better for it.

I think when this happens, for it not to count as a real comp, you need to actually complete the SCs under your own steam. Then you might have recourse to say you weren't really comped, but in this case, you were.

All semantics in the whole scheme of things however.

A mate of mine got comped then qualified normally, wouldn't comp him the following year saying he had been comped already... So YMMV. Pissed him off so much he switched all travel to Virgin.

There are some lessons that QF need to learn about loyalty, that's for sure.

 

[Kangol]

Qantas is the only OW airline that offers First to the US, and even when AA bring their 777 onto the SYD-LAX route that will coincide with QF flying First to SFO which is my usual destination, so it'll still be best to stick with QF.

Since when was that announced?

 

[JessicaTam]

Since when was that announced?

Considering QF will be using 747s for SYD-SFO there won't be any F

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