Is the problem with Qantas due to its Management ?

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At work, we call this sort of management "NATO" (No Action, Talk Only) :D


Yeah, at one of my previous employers, we used to call it "bend over and assume the position". (We where a bit more crude than your work place obviously)

We're sure managers received training on how to promise the earth without actually having to deliver anything.
 
Also, with T-T I have found the NZ based Jetconnect personnel who operate the flights tend to be a much more customer appreciative lot than those from QF mainline.

It may be a Kiwi thing. :D

Yes agree with this serfty.

How do we know when they are flying the new 737 metal? More comfortable and younger more enthusiastic crews

Cheers spruce
 
Aren't all the 738's Trans Tasman now new metal? If not.... I have been Jammy as my last 10 trips were all on the newer planes.

Crew are DEFO younger and more enthusiastic.
 
I have remarked in other threads that i consider it more of an Australian characteristic.We really dont seem to be as service orientated.I was paying particular attention on my recent AA flights.Now staff and management there are at loggerheads.There is the distinct possibility of a strike by FAs.Yet this does not affect their service to their pax.Simple things such as the pre take off drink.One glass on QF and the glass is removed-you have to insist on a second.This happened out of SYD on QF1 where we had been upgraded to F and there was a delay pushing back.Yet on AA when there was a delay on the ground waiting for connecting baggage you were automatically given a second(and some had thirds!).
One memorable FA on this trip and once again on AA-Brian of the Dallas based crew.
 
...of the Dallas based crew.
And IME you can really notice this difference on AA.

If they say that they're a D/FW based crew, during the welcome onboard PA, then I know it's going to be fantastic service. (Even if they have their "red buttons" on.)
 
Yeah, at one of my previous employers, we used to call it "bend over and assume the position". (We where a bit more crude than your work place obviously)

We're sure managers received training on how to promise the earth without actually having to deliver anything.

Ah, the NATO meeting! Been to plenty of those in my time. :p

The expression "promise you the world & give you an Atlas" comes to mind! :rolleyes:
 
The expression "promise you the world & give you an Atlas" comes to mind! :rolleyes:

:D:D500,000 dealings with service providers come to mind. Next stage after receipt of atlas is lengthy debate about what "the world" is. Followed by contracts next time round which define "the world" in endless detail:D:D
 
Aren't all the 738's Trans Tasman now new metal? If not.... I have been Jammy as my last 10 trips were all on the newer planes.

Crew are DEFO younger and more enthusiastic.

Jetconnect cabin crew are also present in the TT A330 flights as well - not the pilots though ;)

QF have several more new next gen 73H's popping up early 2011 which will replace some more, if not all of the 734 fleet.

Then QF will start rolling out the next gen 73H's on selected domestic routes.

There are rumors that QF group are setting up a similar stand alone 'structure' as Jetconnect to fly the 787 when they enter the fleet... Not sure if this is just for the people steering though...
 
I have remarked in other threads that i consider it more of an Australian characteristic.We really dont seem to be as service orientated.I was paying particular attention on my recent AA flights.Now staff and management there are at loggerheads.There is the distinct possibility of a strike by FAs.Yet this does not affect their service to their pax.Simple things such as the pre take off drink.One glass on QF and the glass is removed-you have to insist on a second.This happened out of SYD on QF1 where we had been upgraded to F and there was a delay pushing back.Yet on AA when there was a delay on the ground waiting for connecting baggage you were automatically given a second(and some had thirds!).
One memorable FA on this trip and once again on AA-Brian of the Dallas based crew.

And on my SQ F SIN-FRA they were more than happy to offer me 3 or 4 glasses without having to even be prompted :cool:
 
I have remarked in other threads that i consider it more of an Australian characteristic.We really dont seem to be as service orientated.I was paying particular attention on my recent AA flights.Now staff and management there are at loggerheads.There is the distinct possibility of a strike by FAs.Yet this does not affect their service to their pax.Simple things such as the pre take off drink.One glass on QF and the glass is removed-you have to insist on a second.This happened out of SYD on QF1 where we had been upgraded to F and there was a delay pushing back.Yet on AA when there was a delay on the ground waiting for connecting baggage you were automatically given a second(and some had thirds!).
One memorable FA on this trip and once again on AA-Brian of the Dallas based crew.

Not that I was offered as I was at the front of Y, but on a recently trip from ZQN where there was a delay, the FA’s were serving multiple glasses to the J pax while we were waiting on the ground. Guess it is very inconsistent.
 
As someone who has had a few customer service issues with Qantas, I think I can safely say that in many parts of the company there is a long standing culture of poor service to passengers.

The issues I've had are with a senior crew member in a premium intl cabin and a member of the premium call centre team. Two big issues in 10 years and god know how many thousands of flights isn't too bad, but the problem Qantas has is with their handling of such issues.

Those who have dealt with customer care will know that you usually get a quick response from a very well trained "yes man" who will say over the phone how bad said situation is and how they'll work so hard to fix it, but if you ever push for more info or ask for a real resolution, you won't get one. Calls will go unreturned and the issue will be stretched on for months until you can't be bothered dealing with it anymore.

The problem is of course that staff are not controlled and those who don't really want to offer good service simply won't, because they know they won't ever be pulled up.

The new, younger crews on the TT and A380 routes are a lot better, but it's the older crews who have developed this attitude that they are doing the customer a favor by showing up for work - and unfortunately Qantas have no desire to fix it.
 
Those who have dealt with customer care will know that you usually get a quick response from a very well trained "yes man" who will say over the phone how bad said situation is and how they'll work so hard to fix it, but if you ever push for more info or ask for a real resolution, you won't get one. Calls will go unreturned and the issue will be stretched on for months until you can't be bothered dealing with it anymore.

The problem is of course that staff are not controlled and those who don't really want to offer good service simply won't, because they know they won't ever be pulled up.

The new, younger crews on the TT and A380 routes are a lot better, but it's the older crews who have developed this attitude that they are doing the customer a favor by showing up for work - and unfortunately Qantas have no desire to fix it.

If there's a problem with the attitude of cabin crew you need to look right at the top of the food chain. If management are continuallly trying to whittle away elements of the award whether it be a simple thing like a crew meal (100% of cabin crew are not catered for) or rest periods between duties, slip times, number of cabin crew on an aircraft etc it's the pax who ultimately bear the brunt of it by way of poor service.

Flight attendants fall into two groups -

a) those who get on with the job despite being screwed by management because they have a good work ethic and are professional enough to not let their feelings towards management impact on the customer, or

b) those who think stuff it, if the company is going to screw me then I'll screw them back by way of poor customer service to pax.

I don't disagree with Richard Branson's philosophy of looking after employees first, customers second then shareholders last. QF look at the above in a different order.

The problem with aviation & this applies to many airlines, is that bean counters with zero aviation experience are given way too much power when it comes to major decision making. They never understand the short term loss for long term gain principle as many are on short contracts with generous bonuses for 'saving money'.

By the time it's discovered that these decisions are actually costing money 3 years down the track, these consultants have long gone yet hansomely rewarded for their carnage.

It's a shame that customer goodwill is subjective and it's very hard to display on balance sheets, graphs and grids what would happen to the bottom line if a company implemented unpopular changes amongst staff.

How can employees take management seriously when they are told sorry, no bonus this year we're doing it tough, not even shareholders are being paid dividends. Staff received a $250 travel voucher for their hard work. Yet according to the Australian Services Union, QF Execs received up to $5,000 in cash bonuses and shares worth $20,000. Obviously the airline is doing okay after all. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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I've been a fairly loyal QF customer for years mainly on the TT route, but a recent flight back from CHR on Emirates was quite an eye-opener, and I also think Air NZ is putting on a better service on the route.

Okay I have no complaints with QF's reliability (can't recall a seriously delayed flight in 5 years) but the in-flight service gives every impression of serious cost cutting in terms of crew numbers and quality of food. The contrast with Emirates and Air NZ (who are also charging lower prices) is becoming more marked.

I anticipate losing my QF Gold status this year and at that point will probably switch to Air NZ / Emirates for the bulk of my flying. If Virgin Blue can get a FF scheme sharing going with one of these two that will make the case even more comelling
 
If there's a problem with the attitude of cabin crew you need to look right at the top of the food chain. If management are continuallly trying to whittle away elements of the award whether it be a simple thing like a crew meal (100% of cabin crew are not catered for) or rest periods between duties, slip times, number of cabin crew on an aircraft etc it's the pax who ultimately bear the brunt of it by way of poor service.

Unfortunately, and no consolation, but this isn't just limited to QF or aviation but is prevalent everywhere. I experienced this rubbish working as a government regulator in an area that is so contentious that there have been protest marches and the slightest glitch in proceedings ends up on the front page of major newspapers. But still no will by management to recognise the importance of the staff and actually fund them a living.
 
I don't disagree with Richard Branson's philosophy of looking after employees first, customers second then shareholders last. QF look at the above in a different order.

It is about finding the right balance between the three groups. I would suggest that very few companies find the right balance, and most focus on shareholders first.

How can employees take management seriously when they are told sorry, no bonus this year we're doing it tough, not even shareholders are being paid dividends. Staff received a $250 travel voucher for their hard work. Yet according to the Australian Services Union, QF Execs received up to $5,000 in cash bonuses and shares worth $20,000. Obviously the airline is doing okay after all. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Executive remuneration is certainly a problem in many companies, and not just in Australia.
 
Unfortunately, and no consolation, but this isn't just limited to QF or aviation but is prevalent everywhere. .

Agreed. Have experienced exactly the same from Virgin, United, AGL, Hyatt etc etc.

Think people should just move on. If you get bad service or product vote with your feet and try someone else, see if they are better and stop whinging on and on :)
 
those who get on with the job despite being screwed by management because they have a good work ethic and are professional enough to not let their feelings towards management impact on the customer

I think that probably applies to most of us, and across a lot of industries.

Just going back to the topic heading, I can see a problem with Qantas, but from my perspective its not the management, its the fares - and the clunky website they use to market them. [Of course management are responsible for those;)]

Example: looking at flights BNE-LAX next year, I'm quoted Y+ on QF for $4600 return, or I could do Y+ out and J back on NZ on the same dates for about $300 more than the QF fare. I didn't ask about J, but they offered it anyway. A classic upsell tactic, and for that sort of premium over QF, I'll probably buy. The FAs can be as friendly or as surly as they like, I'll have the flat bed and a good nights sleep thanks.

The irony is that the option is available because NZ's website (like others) is good at selling up, a tactic out of sales 101, but QF's website can't do it. You can't even do mixed fares there at all without multiple itineraries.

And the other irony is that for the first time ever I am in sight of QF WP, while at the same time QF are busy backpedalling the value of status (e.g. pricing rather than awarding exit row seats), while NZ are simply including status options in their pricing. For example on NZ on a trans tasman flight I am noone, but I can buy a trans tasman works plus fare for $120-130 more and get all the status perks. I bet they'd even call me Mr Pineapple when I got on the plane:cool:

Cheers skip
 
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I've been watching this thread with a great deal of interest. I was once a great fan of QF but in recent years I wonder why I bother with them.

As someone who has had a few customer service issues with Qantas, I think I can safely say that in many parts of the company there is a long standing culture of poor service to passengers.

The issues I've had are with a senior crew member in a premium intl cabin and a member of the premium call centre team. Two big issues in 10 years and god know how many thousands of flights isn't too bad, but the problem Qantas has is with their handling of such issues.

Those who have dealt with customer care will know that you usually get a quick response from a very well trained "yes man" who will say over the phone how bad said situation is and how they'll work so hard to fix it, but if you ever push for more info or ask for a real resolution, you won't get one. Calls will go unreturned and the issue will be stretched on for months until you can't be bothered dealing with it anymore. .

I contacted QF customer service (sic) three months ago about an issue with a FA to whom I have given two new words with similar initials to describe him instead. It took two weeks to phone me with a reluctant promise of $150. Never happened of course. I reminder email last week went ignored. I'm not holding my breath.

I've been a fairly loyal QF customer for years mainly on the TT route, but a recent flight back from CHR on Emirates was quite an eye-opener, and I also think Air NZ is putting on a better service on the route.

I anticipate losing my QF Gold status this year and at that point will probably switch to Air NZ / Emirates for the bulk of my flying.

Agree totally with you. After some advice recently I have decided that I'll dump QF and Oneworld. I have hundreds of thousands of points to use and will use them in time. Am willing to forgo Gold status as it means little to QF. I mainly fly business class so Gold is of little benefit.

I have a few bookings remaining on Oneworld this year find I rarely fly QF. I've just joined with Asiana and *Alliance. Reviews on Asiana seem great. Fares reasonable. FAs seem to be willing to work. *Alliance seems to fit well with my future travel plans.

A few years ago I sat on a flight from BKK to SYD beside a QF FA who was not shy on what she thought of the management and how it impacted on how she and others perceived they were valued.

My union has had numerous issues with our employer over the years but there is no way we would take it out on our clients.
 
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