Is the 747-8 selling?

[PaulST]

I'm curious to know, is there much interest in the new 747-8 or has it been a bit of a disaster for Boeing?
According to Wiki, they've delivered 68 with orders for 120 more. That doesn't seem like a lot to me! But I guess it's still fairly new.

Has the A380 grabbed all of the attention or is interest in the A380 waning too? Are these all being replaced by the smaller long-distance Jets like the 777(X) and upcoming A350?

 

[Himeno]

There has been 328 A380 orders with 128 delivered. Last I heard, Airbus needed ~450 sold for the program to be successful.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

I think the 747-8F has been fairly successful, but the passenger model is having trouble competiting against the 777 and 787.

It was a lot cheaper to design than the A380 so I'd say with around 120 orders Boeing isn't doing too badly but I think their future focus is the stretched 878 versions and the next gen 777 and upgrading the 737.

 

[Obzerva]

so far I think it's only Lufthansa who have about 12 of the passenger models operating

Air China I'm pretty sure is not far away from being rolled out, followed by Korean.

 

[TomVexille]

The 748 was more about the freighter with the pax version being a bonus if it sold. That being said, I don't think Boeing has made their money back on the development costs of the pax version.

It's a shame as the 748i is a gorgeous airframe.

 

[harvyk]

I don't think the B748 has been a disaster for Boeing... I remember once seeing an airbus comparison between the B748 and the A380... One of it's "faults" with the 748 was the fact it was built on a design from 40 years ago... However improving existing designs is always cheaper than starting fresh. Most of the 748's tweaks was around the edges (in some cases literally, eg the wing tips, the rear edges of the engines etc...). There is a lot shared from the B744, from the overall shape, to the basic coughpit design. There is certainly new computer controlled systems on board, but I believe a lot of that was shared with the B787... So in a way you could call the B748 a mash up of existing aircraft designs. Which means that whilst there is a market for it, they will still keep making them. They don't have a sword hanging over their heads on the success in quite the same way airbus does with it's A380 (which was a completely new designed aircraft from the ground up, although they did borrow a couple of things from the other A series A/C)

 

[Fruitcake]

Most of the 748's tweaks was around the edges (in some cases literally, eg the wing tips, the rear edges of the engines etc...). There is a lot shared from the B744, from the overall shape, to the basic coughpit design.

One interesting little fact about the 748 is that it has a lower certified ceiling than the 747-400. Apparently, that's mostly because the cleaner airframe of the 748 can't descend as fast as that of the 744, so passenger emergency oxygen duration limitations mean that the ceiilng has to be lower to ensure it can descend to a safe altitude fast enough in the event of depressurisation.

 

[markis10]

One interesting little fact about the 748 is that it has a lower certified ceiling than the 747-400. Apparently, that's mostly because the cleaner airframe of the 748 can't descend as fast as that of the 744, so passenger emergency oxygen duration limitations mean that the ceiilng has to be lower to ensure it can descend to a safe altitude fast enough in the event of depressurisation.

I suspect that might be BS, its not much lower than others. I would not be surprised if its to do more with coffin corner.

 

[Fruitcake]

I suspect that might be BS, its not much lower than others. I would not be surprised if its to do more with coffin corner.

Thanks. A 747 FO offered me the emergency descent explanation but, as a QF pilot, his 748 development/certification knowledge might not be perfect. I better downgrade my "interesting fact" to "interesting speculation."

 

[markis10]

Thanks. A 747 FO offered me the emergency descent explanation but, as a QF pilot, his 748 development/certification knowledge might not be perfect. I better downgrade my "interesting fact" to "interesting speculation."

An aircraft's service ceiling is mandated as the maximum height at which a 100ft per minute climb can be achieved (I think with one engine U/S), hence my questioning why a descent issue would change it. Certified ceiling is of course a different story.

 

[Fruitcake]

An aircraft's service ceiling is mandated as the maximum height at which a 100ft per minute climb can be achieved (I think with one engine U/S), hence my questioning why a descent issue would change it. Certified ceiling is of course a different story.

Ah, well I suspect there was a misunderstanding about service ceiling vs certified ceiling in our discussion. At least I know we definitely weren't talking about absolute ceiling .

 

[markis10]

Secret talks were recently held between an A380 and a 747-8 to discuss strategies dealing with making 4 engines kings of the airline world once again

 

[codash1099]

Secret talks were recently held between an A380 and a 747-8 to discuss strategies dealing with making 4 engines kings of the airline world once again

View attachment 27258

Assuming they are male and female, what would the progeny be?

 

[alieninperth]

minimum characters

 

[TomVexille]

View attachment 27277
minimum characters

Maybe my favourite post of the year

 

[cambriamarsh]

I suspect that might be BS, its not much lower than others. I would not be surprised if its to do more with coffin corner.

Coffin corner? Could you please explain?

 

[markis10]

Coffin corner? Could you please explain?

Coffin corner is the altitude where the aircraft's stall speed is equal to the critical mach number (at a given weight/g force loading), making it very difficult to have stable flight. Critical mach number is the maximum speed at which air can pass over the wings without losing lift.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...g-in-the-coffin-corner-air-france-flight-447/

 

[cambriamarsh]

Coffin corner is the altitude where the aircraft's stall speed is equal to the critical mach number (at a given weight/g force loading), making it very difficult to have stable flight. Critical mach number is the maximum speed at which air can pass over the wings without losing lift.

Ok thank you .......

 

[UP4014]

From reading the press over the past couple of years, I think Boeing is doing quite well thank you from the 748. A good sound design with continuous improvements over the years.

Also, just from reading the press, Airbus is walking the line on being able to make any money out of the 380. Another poster mentioned 450 to break even, I think I've read it's closer to 600 but I can't recall where I saw that.

Boeing has a offering with the 737, 777 and 747 and still the 767 has a production line.

Matt

 

[Sprucegoose]

There has been 328 A380 orders with 128 delivered. Last I heard, Airbus needed ~450 sold for the program to be successful.

Take out the Emirates orders and what do you have,a high dependence upon one customer??