Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash?

[twiningb]

Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash? Obviously I haven't done a lot of international travel since 2019.

If I have to open some other account it might be time to get started, since we depart in five weeks.

(I'm set for FX-fee-free purchases, with a US Amex Gold backed with a Coles Rewards Mastercard and a Bundll account which charges to my Dragon Visa.)

 

[SYD]

I used the Bankwest Platinum debit card in Europe over Easter. No fees and the exchange rate was very competitive.

Yes, there’s no shortage of fee free debit card options and most of us here migrated to those (and similar CCs) for the majority of our OS spend. But ironically, as we need less cash our ability to access it fee free is drying up.

I shouldn’t complain, I have three banks already that don’t charge 3% conversion fee at the ATM (NAB “Gold Banking”, UBank and ING).

 

[SYD]

+ Macquarie Bank

Looking at MacBank, it’s says they’ll refund domestic ATM fees, they don’t charge Int ATM transaction fees but says “You may be charged a fee by international ATM operators.”

No mention of options to avoid ATM fees OS?

Transaction account

Earn interest, deposit your salary, pay bills and stay in control of your savings.

www.macquarie.com.au

 

[Lynda2475]

So you use an overseas ATM which is fee free. Thats why you need Citi bank + Macquarie (or other spare). I find in the countires that charge an ATM fee, there is usually a citibank and so no fee. In UK no ATM fees so Macquaries works a charm and non of the deposit hurdles required by ING.

I opened ING but am in process of closing it, as to even qualify for free fee purchases you have to jump deposit hurdles and Aussie transaction hurdles, which you don't for Macquarie which I already had and has worked flawlessly.

 

[SYD]

So you use an overseas ATM which is fee free. Thats why you need Citi bank + Macquarie (or other spare). I find in the countires that charge an ATM fee, there is usually a citibank and so no fee. In UK no ATM fees so Macquaries works a charm and non of the deposit hurdles required by ING.

I opened ING but am in process of closing it, as to even qualify for free fee purchases you have to jump deposit hurdles and Aussie transaction hurdles, which you don't for Macquarie which I already had and has worked flawlessly.

Ah, I already have 3x banks that don’t charge their own ATM fees nor Int tx fee. So MacBank would be superfluous.

But if ING do any more enhancement, I might consider it in the future. I’m hanging on to the ING Savings Maximiser for now (plus a Euro trip in a few weeks with any ATM fee free - not that I’m expecting to need as much cash as the US…).

 

[Flashback]

Ah, I already have 3x banks that don’t charge their own ATM fees nor Int tx fee. So MacBank would be superfluous.

But if ING do any more enhancement, I might consider it in the future. I’m hanging on to the ING Savings Maximiser for now (plus a Euro trip in a few weeks with any ATM fee free - not that I’m expecting to need as much cash as the US…).

Just beware that Spain tends to charge €5 for ATM withdrawals, in case that's on your itinerary.

 

[SydneySwan]

Yes you can, for another three days...

Apologies - I have updated my post.

 

[SYD]

Just beware that Spain tends to charge €5 for ATM withdrawals, in case that's on your itinerary.

Yes, we know! Fortunately ING is still good for that trip....

Edit: I now have a new Citi Plus account - well for the time being....

 

[VPS]

Just beware that Spain tends to charge €5 for ATM withdrawals, in case that's on your itinerary.

Yes I walked around and tried a few and the cheapest I could find was 5E = some wanted 7E

 

[SYD]

Yes I walked around and tried a few and the cheapest I could find was 5E = some wanted 7E

Anyone know how Portugal sits in the ATM fee roulette?

 

[Lynda2475]

Anyone know how Portugal sits in the ATM fee roulette?

When I was last there in 2018 ATMs were fee free unlike Spain.

After seeing fees in Spain, I didn't withdraw any Euros there (luckily everywhere i needed to pay for something took card) and just waited until we got to Portugal, worked out what little cash Id need for the rest of the trip there, so when returned to Spain didnt need to withdraw anymore.

No fees at ATMs in Croatia either.

 

[SYD]

When I was last there in 2018 ATMs were fee free unlike Spain.

Although academic while ING still works, we’ll be there before Spain. If I remember, I’ll report back in a couple of weeks.

No fees at ATMs in Croatia either.

Or Germany.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

But as far as I’m aware, they’re only 1 of 4(?) and soon to be 1 of 3 offering no ATM fee to access your cash OS.

Citi via their own ATMs,
HSBC via their own ATMs (with limitations),
WBC via a “Global Alliance” (but they still charge up to 3%), and
ING via ATM fee rebate (soon to be enhanced)…

Yes, UBank and ING (and others?) will let you withdraw money from an ATM Int tx fee free but you’re at the mercy of local ATM fees….

Even though we‘re relying less on cash OS, there are some places and situations where cash is still king.

At times during this discussion (ie not by yourself) there are two issues being conflated:

1) third party ATM fee at non-network ATMs overseas

2) the actual exchange rate being used (Mastercard/Visa rate or some other rate or (in the case of Wise - interbank rate))

From what I have recalled reading on this thread on actual transactions, of the "network" options you have mentioned, I believe that Citi uses Mastercard rate (with one or two instances of a one-off "inflated" rate), HSBC uses an inflated rate, WBC uses an inflated rate of some sort, ING uses Visa rate. [As a side note Mastercard rate is slightly better than Visa about 70/30 or 60/40.]

To put this in another perspective:
- in countries with ATMs that don't have third party fees => go with the best rate
- in countries with ATMs that often have third party fees => find a network ATM, unless drawing a large amount of cash will result in the better rate outweighing the third party fee. So eg where there is WBC network and no Citi network (and given the WBC feee is 3%), draw from WBC card unless drawing more than $100 cash where you would draw from a non-network ATM with a $3 fee using the Citi card (or $200 for $6 fee, etc).

Others have mentioned Wise, I have actually read elsewhere that Wise uses the interbank rate (apparently it's better than Mastercard/Visa rate) and one can draw A$350 cash per 30 days (depending on your rolling cycle). I'm a bit confused whether there might be other fees involved with Wise.

 

[SYD]

At times during this discussion (ie not by yourself) there are two issues being conflated:

1) third party ATM fee at non-network ATMs overseas

2) the actual exchange rate being used (Mastercard/Visa rate or some other rate or (in the case of Wise - interbank rate))

From what I have recalled reading on this thread on actual transactions, of the "network" options you have mentioned, I believe that Citi uses Visa rate (with one or two instances of a one-off "inflated" rate), HSBC uses an inflated rate, WBC uses an inflated rate of some sort, ING uses Visa rate.

I have actually read elsewhere that Wise uses the interbank rate (apparently its better than Mastercard/Visa rate) [as a side note also Mastercard rate is slightly better than Visa about 70/30 or 60/40] and one can draw A$350 cash per 30 days (depending on your rolling cycle). I'm a bit confused whether there might be other fees involved with Wise.

To put this in another perspective:
- in countries with ATMs that don't have third party fees => go with the best rate
- in countries with ATMs that often have third party fees => find a network ATM, unless drawing a large amount of cash will result in the better rate outweighing the third party fee. So eg where there is WBC network and no Citi network (and given the WBC feee is 3%), draw from WBC card unless drawing more than $100 cash where you would draw from a non-network ATM with a $3 fee using the Citi card (or $200 for $6 fee, etc).

The earlier comment was relating to options to try and avoid ATM operator fees when seeking out cash OS. Some counties like the UK, this isn’t an issue.

ING is unique in that it rebates any ATM fee, anywhere, whether it be a bank or some independent ATM in a bar charging 10 bucks for the convienance factor. Alas, ING is being enhanced. Meanwhile, Citi and WBC are other options to help avoid ATM imposed fees.

Then there’s the issue of what your bank actually charges you to access your own money OS. Turns out that WBC giveth in one hand and taketh with the other. Pretty much 3% fee lurking in there somewhere - like many other banks. Hence this thread.

But there are several that don’t slug you the 3%: Citi, MacBank, ING, UBank and some NAB accounts amongst a couple of others.

Getting into the nitty gritty of VISA, MC and other rates, TBH if you pass the first two hurdles, we’re in the noise and maybe less than 0.5% +/-. I’ve done side by side comparisons in the past withdrawing the same amount of cash from the same ATM on the same day using NAB, UBank and ING and really much the much.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

The Whirlpool wiki isn't bad.

(I intend to revive my MacBank should NAB ditch fee-free withdrawals OS when they fold the Citi account in.)

The bottom of the Wiki of the list of countries is very useful, though starting to look more dated (one example was go to a bank that has Visa and allows Citi (Visa) over-the-counter to draw cash).

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

The earlier comment was relating to options to try and avoid ATM operator fees when seeking out cash OS. Some counties like the UK, this isn’t an issue.

ING is unique in that it rebates any ATM fee, anywhere, whether it be a bank or some independent ATM in a bar charging 10 bucks for the convienance factor. Alas, ING is being enhanced. Meanwhile, Citi and WBC are other options to help avoid ATM imposed fees.

Then there’s the issue of what your bank actually charges you to access your own money OS. Turns out that WBC giveth in one hand and taketh with the other. Pretty much 3% fee lurking in there somewhere - like many other banks. Hence this thread.

But there are several that don’t slug you the 3%: Citi, MacBank, ING, UBank and some NAB accounts amongst a couple of others.

Getting into the nitty gritty of VISA, MC and other rates, TBH if you pass the first two hurdles, we’re in the noise and maybe less than 0.5% +/-. I’ve done side by side comparisons in the past withdrawing the same amount of cash from the same ATM on the same day using NAB, UBank and ING and really much the much.

Yes, agree.

Since it seems the Citi card will possibly lose its access to the Citi network in three year time (?!), Citi, Macq, ING, etc will be on a "level" playing field in terms of cash withdrawals while overseas.

This will then makes the choice much simpler, preferred card v Global Alliance(WBC) then third as a back up card.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

can we still apply for a supplementary card? I’m getting an error code on line.

 

[SydneySwan]

Just looked up some ATM fees ING rebated in South America;

Chile - $14-16
Argentina - $8-9
Uruguay - $4
Bolivia = $6-11
Peru - $6

The main advantage of course was that you could withdraw your money from any ATM and not worry about the charges. Now you are going to have to be more considered.

 

[SYD]

can we still apply for a supplementary card? I’m getting an error code on line.

Not sure about supps, but I successfully applied for a new account/debit card yesterday. So that’s still working, although SYD+1’s application is in limbo…

Since it seems the Citi card will possibly lose its access to the Citi network in three year time (?!),

Oh, what’s the source of that? 3 years will be much better than I expected if correct.

 

[SydneySwan]

Not sure about supper, but I successfully applied for a new account/debit card yesterday. So that’s still working, although SYD+1’s application is in limbo…

Oh, what’s the source of that? 3 years will be much better than I expected if correct.

Citi were bought by NAB in June 2022 so it is 2 years and 1 month to go before the Citi branding has to be dropped.

 

[SYD]

Citi were bought by NAB in June 2022 so it is 2 years and 1 month to go before the Citi branding has to be dropped.

When I signed up yesterday, there was something implying that the accounts porting to a NAB equivalent will be sooner than that but I’ll be more than happy if I can get ~2 yrs out of it. Maybe by then cash will be even less of of a thing!