International Premium Economy seating

[pleasureg]

Hi all,
Has anyone flown in these seats yet on 747 to Europe?
I have booked two award seats Syd-London and am seeking feedback on best seats on that particular aircraft on that route.
Any information will be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Va Bene]

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but I have the same question about BA WT+ SYD-LHR-SYD on BA10/9. Seatguru.com is showing 3 seating versions of the 747-400 with one unusual arrangement of WT+ smack bang in the middle of F and J.

Looking at the seat maps for QF Y+ at:
QFlyer - Premium Economy Information (nothing on seatguru.com)
34AB and 34JK look like the best for legroom but close to toilets, galley and Row 34 has the bassinet. I'd personally go with 34AB as the toilets nearby are for J pax so there shouldn't be through traffic from the Y cabin.
Rows 34 and 35 have 2 windows if you like a view with the other 2 rows of 36 and 37 only showing one window (my usual view on QF Y domestic).

 

[Travel Guru]

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but I have the same question about BA WT+ SYD-LHR-SYD on BA10/9. Seatguru.com is showing 3 seating versions of the 747-400 with one unusual arrangement of WT+ smack bang in the middle of F and J.

That's correct, on the 744 i've flown on (via BKK) the BA WTP seats are located behind F but in front of J (strange arrangement but obviously done in order to maximize the no. of J seats which would be limited if placed where the WTP has been.

TG

 

[pleasureg]

Thanks to the both of you for your feedback.
I have booked 34 AB for both legs.
Can you advise where one obtains a list of all of the acronyns that you use as I am a bit confuced? i.e. WBT?
Thanks.

 

[pleasureg]

Sorry I am confused (too early) and WTP I meant to type!!!!!!!

 

[serfty]

WTP refers to BA's World Traveler Plus.

For a more complete list, check this sticky thread:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...s-5056.html?highlight=abbreviations#post69096

 

[JohnK]

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but I have the same question about BA WT+ SYD-LHR-SYD on BA10/9. Seatguru.com is showing 3 seating versions of the 747-400 with one unusual arrangement of WT+ smack bang in the middle of F and J..

I flew BKK-SYD in December and SYD-BKK last month in BA World Traveller Plus. I can confirm that the WT+ cabin is located between F and J and the cabin crew do a great job of ignoring the passengers in the WT+ cabin.

It is not much better on the BA 777 where the WT+ cabin is situated between J and WHY. The nearest galleys are in front of the J cabin and at the rear of the solitary WHY cabin.

 

[coco50]

For a good comparison of PE seats on QF, NZ, BA and Virgin Atlantic see April 2008 Gourmet Traveller pages 192 - 193

 

[Va Bene]

The quote from my European employer for WT+ ended up being more that what I could get QF PE for at my end . I think the BA ones could have been W fares.
Taking into account the dodgy seating arrangment, below par service levels and the expectation (well mine anyway)that QF will be a better PE offering, I gladly took the QF option with 34J/K seats (34A/B taken). Not J/F but better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick given our Y only policy.

I will be transiting through the new T5 at LHR (23/4) so hopefully BA will not be saying sorry by then. I read they are sending 15,000 bags that have been separated from their owners to Milan for sorting and hopefully reunification with their disgruntled owners. I think Alitalia have some spare baggage handlers at MPX.


It is interesting that QF are selling PE seats for both QF and BA metal and for the same price. You would be pretty annoyed if you took took a QF code-share flight with BA and were expecting the QF PE offering.

 

[simongr]

Taking into account the dodgy seating arrangment, below par service levels and the expectation (well mine anyway)that QF will be a better PE offering

What dodgy seating arrangement? In new fit out WT+ on BA you disembark before F or J I think. Not sure about service either - my experience was pretty good, JohnK's was not so good. I have had generally poor service in J on QF with some good service. Service on BA in J has generally been pretty good. I would be more concerned about QF service than BA personally - YMMV.

I think the QF PE offering looks a better product though and is definitely aimed higher than BA's. I think the difference is that QF PE is J- and BA's WT+ is really whY+ and if I paid QF prices and flew on BA - I wouldnt be a happy camper.

 

[rhjames]

I flew BKK-SYD in December and SYD-BKK last month in BA World Traveller Plus.

I've booked BKK-SYD with BA for next month with award points. As it's a red eye flight, I wanted a bit more sleeping comfort than economy (it's a bit hard to back to this, but when I'm paying, I can't justify business or first for short flights). My question is, does the extra space make sleeping more comfortable?

 

[aussiejohn]

Has anyone actually flown in QF's Premium Economy yet? I know there are only a few planes with it so far so maybe too new for anyone to have tried. Just intrigued about it because of the blatantly dishonest advertising from Qantas. Every picture you see is very carefully staged and photographed in such a way as to give you no indication of leg room, distance between seats etc etc. While any increase in seat pitch is welcome on a 23 hour flight to London, a mere 8" is not gonna make much difference at all, especially to a taller person who will still struggle to sit comfortably in such a confined space. Also, a mere 2" of extra recline won't increase comfort for sleeping.

I have been flying now for 40 years (my first trip to London was on a 707!) and there has been no advance whatsover in economy class seating other than to cram more seats on planes and create new problems such as DVT. Surely, after all this time, someone with a bit of nous and ingenuity could have found solutions and created a better economy class cabin for those who do not have company expense accounts or unlimited funds to fly Biz or First class. I don't want bells and whistles, fancy food, etc etc. Just need a comfortable seat, room to sit comfortably and not to have to clamber over people or have them clamber over me to go to the toilet. In this day and age, it is not too much to ask for.

 

[JohnK]

I've booked BKK-SYD with BA for next month with award points. As it's a red eye flight, I wanted a bit more sleeping comfort than economy (it's a bit hard to back to this, but when I'm paying, I can't justify business or first for short flights). My question is, does the extra space make sleeping more comfortable?

It is slightly more comfortable and the seat reclines more than ordinary WHY seats. Also with the adjustable controls you can have your feet off the floor and your legs closer to parallel.

Surely, after all this time, someone with a bit of nous and ingenuity could have found solutions and created a better economy class cabin for those who do not have company expense accounts or unlimited funds to fly Biz or First class.

Apparently the new shell type seats that CX have installed in their evonomy cabins should address the issue of appearing to have more personal space. I don't think we will be seeing a reduction in the number of passengers crammed into the economy cabin though. Most airlines target premium cabins and this is where all the improvements have been made in recent years. Unfortunately the corporate dollar speaks louder....

 

[trooper]

Given that PRICE is # 1 (and 2 and 3) for many folks (probably a majority??) it is hard to see any major change happening in Y cabins.... more room = less people = more cost surely.... No matter how much more efficiently these new seat ideas use the space it is still finite.

Any discussion (like in the letters pages of Patrick Smiths "Ask the Pilot" column) of economy seating reveals lots of demands for more pitch, AND more width, AND wider armrests AND even wider aisles... yet includes comments like "I'd pay extra.. not $hundreds more.. but a bit more"...

Real workable eh?

Those who are more reasonable/realistic suggest they'd pay "1 1/2 to 2 times as much" ..and they ARE now being catered for with more airlines intoducing premium economy...

It certainly cemented my "loyalty" to NZ to have that option.... I wanted "more", but as a self funded recreational traveller knew my only time "up front" would be when a points upgrade cleared... so I "put my money where my mouth is" and make the choice to pay the premium for Y+

Other options include getting status with UA shock: )and flying in "E+"... it's even free then... OK. it's only more leg room but it's a start.....

 

[clifford]

Other options include getting status with UA shock: ) and flying in "E+"... it's even free then... OK. it's only more leg room but it's a start.....

Hi trooper, I agree that UA is a poor option. E+ is better than E-, but still not better than some airlines' standard economy seating.

And being non-US citizens, we can't easily participate in UA's current promo of Double EQM, so getting status is still fairly expensive for Australian residents. Note that AA has a similar current promo which is open to all, irrespective of where they live.

 

[trooper]

Wow... Kudos to AA for that!

There is a (long) FT thread running covering the inequities faced by non-US M&P members.... I think lack of access to the DEQM promotion is the LEAST of the concerns expressed there! (Well.. maybe not.. but it isn't the only one! :mrgreen: )

I've flown Transpac in E+ (and E- come to think of it) on UA.. and I can't say I've had the horror experiences others relate... then again I have no NZ horror stories.. or US immigration ones.. or even TSA related "nasties"...

So I'm either just lucky... or I have a higher tolerance level.... or both!

(I HAVE had a QF International shocker though... which is why I started flying UA then settled in with NZ.... Yet I would much rather fly QF domestic than DJ... Go figure... )

UA's E+ is certainly nothing flash... but it has more seat pitch than any standard "Y" that I'm aware of.... whether that can make up for other faults (no AVOD etc) is a very individual decision!!!:shock: I travel wth a rather tall chap most trips. and he likes UA's E+.. then again, he reckons NZ's standard economy is decent too - so I take your point there....... (but like me now plumps for "Y+")

I just have little tolerance for the demands you hear (not so much here or on FT etc.. more like on "A Current Affair"!! ) for "more legroom/more space".. with no mention of willingness to PAY for it.....

"Oh Lawks.. these dreadful mean airlines...." BAH HUMBUG!

 

[MelUser]

I agree - most people aren't willing to pay. Look at that wonderfully comfortably airline EOS which concentrated on making every passenger as comfortable as possible. It has gone under and will cease flying today I think.

People are not willing to put their $ where there mouth is. We all know people that whinge and moan when they get off a Y flight from Europe to Australia yet they knew when they bought their ticket what they were buying - 24 hours in an uncomfortable upright seat!

 

[rhjames]

I agree - most people aren't willing to pay.

Some of us, however, are prepared to pay. At my advanced stage of life (50s), the concept of flying long haul (eg 14h) in economy seats is too awesome to contemplate. For my last holiday to Europe I flew economy to Asia, then business to Europe. However, I'm looking forward to testing premium economy (BA) next month to see if it's a realistic alternative (though with some luck I may get upgraded).

 

[Arthur Hodgson]

Some of us, however, are prepared to pay. At my advanced stage of life (50s), the concept of flying long haul (eg 14h) in economy seats is too awesome to contemplate. For my last holiday to Europe I flew economy to Asia, then business to Europe. However, I'm looking forward to testing premium economy (BA) next month to see if it's a realistic alternative (though with some luck I may get upgraded).

Well, my view is quite the opposite, and I am aged over 60. I won’t start buying premium seating until I’m physically unable to handle economy, and that’s not yet.

I pay as little as possible for air travel, but in many cases I can upgrade for "free" using earned certificates, etc. When these run out, or can't be used, I just try and break each journey up into smallish sectors that I can handle without too much trouble.

For example, I have booked a trip to London for later this year. It comprises SYD-SIN-BKK-SIN-BOM-IST-LON (and return same way). I'm using several different airlines (SQ, LX, TK) and because I'm buying the cheapest fares I can find, the cost is quite low. Even so, being *G, I do usually get access to bulkhead seats, exit rows, etc, even on cheap fares.

My philosophy is to use what I've saved on airline tickets to pay for nice hotels, car rental, etc, as well as my next trip. If you're travelling to London, say, you will only spend a maximum of 24 hours on a plane (in at least 2 hops), which I find does pass relatively quickly. However, when you get to your destination, you are probably there for a while longer, so why not really enjoy things there?

Of course, if money is no object (not the case for me, unfortunately), go business class and stay at posh hotels too, but as I have said, if I have to make a choice, I would rather pay for decent accommodation, cars, food, etc, at my destination, than for inflated airfares (and they are very inflated ex Oz).

Anyway, chaq'un à son goût, as they say...

 

[trooper]

And that Arthur is the equally valid OTHER choice :mrgreen: .... One pretty much either takes that path (and breaking up the trip into shorter flights sounds bloody good to me - as I'm already doing that too!) OR you economise in other ways to make up for the more expensive Y+ fares...

That was my choice..... but if Y+ keeps going up at the rate it has been I may well give your plan a try instead!!:mrgreen: Price sensitivity exists at all levels I reckon... other than those for whom money IS no object of course as you point out!! (Ain't me either! )

Actually I'm sort of splitting the difference lately... cheapish Y fares to Asia (preferably to SIN on the 380 and on from there.. SQ has quite decent one way fares) then pick up a cheap one way C deal from an Asian port to North America... then the cheapest one way NZ fare home and use certificates/points to try for upgrades - to at least Y+!!..... That comes out at LESS $$ than the straight Y+ return... and nearly all of it is either in C, or in the better "Y" cabins (like the 380!) Good FFP earnings too!

It's not for everybody.. one guy who goes to the same competitions over there as I do is "aghast" at what I do... he would fly direct/non-stop from here (CBR) to - say - ABQ standing up if it was quicker and/or cheaper... whereas for me the travel itself has become a very real part of the holiday.... (I'd be lying if I said Lounge access and status making upgrades more likely wasn't part of the equation! And I earned Gold in what was possibly the most economical way too.. and will - fingers crossed - retain it in the same manner))

...so three or three and a half days going SYD-SIN-xBKK-HKG-xNRT-ICN-YVR-PDX-PHX (as on the last trip) or SYD-AKL-xHKG-MNL-ICN-SFO-xYVR-DEN-CEZ as on the NEXT one is something I really enjoy..

To each their own... and "Hurrah" for the fact we do have some choices!!