In flight Seat Allocation and Social Distancing

[jb747]

Something that will eventually have to be factored into the post Covid scenario will be the allowed seating density. If any form of distancing is required, then economy seating, as we know it will have to disappear. Whilst I’m sure nobody would miss being crammed into seats that are both too small and too close, the economics of the operation would have to change. Even if business class seating were not installed throughout an aircraft, having a density of anything like business would incur costs at about the same level.

The upshot would be dramatically less seating (perhaps 60%) available and at a much greater price. To move the same number of people would require total elimination of Covid as a factor, or, many more aircraft.

 

[kelvedon]

Would the economics of the A380 be affected if, in the future, oil prices remain low and aircraft have to be configured with lower density?

 

[p--and--t]

Would the economics of the A380 be affected if, in the future, oil prices remain low and aircraft have to be configured with lower density?

Was thinking the same, especially for QF. Existing fleet & infrastructure, sunk costs, reduced fuel bill, heaps of cheap spare parts, reduced density of passengers, more weight for freight. No idea if the figures tally up, but sounds viable. No capex, nearly all opex

 

[seanpodge]

Surely would depend if any airline could fill one though. Particularly if airlines were considering scrapping them, they would probably need load factors pushing 100% to convince them to keep the A380 in the fleet, even with low oil prices (which of course could go back up again).

Wonder if any of them can be converted into freighters?

 

[p--and--t]

Surely would depend if any airline could fill one though. Particularly if airlines were considering scrapping them, they would probably need load factors pushing 100% to convince them to keep the A380 in the fleet, even with low oil prices (which of course could go back up again).

Wonder if any of them can be converted into freighters?

Drifting off topic but..

Doubt any airline will be having traditional international high load factors (based on fitted seats) in calendar 2020.

Will be interesting to see if any gov introduces on board social distancing rules for a period of time thus enforcing load factors of <60%

 

[seanpodge]

Something that will eventually have to be factored into the post Covid scenario will be the allowed seating density. If any form of distancing is required, then economy seating, as we know it will have to disappear. Whilst I’m sure nobody would miss being crammed into seats that are both too small and too close, the economics of the operation would have to change. Even if business class seating were not installed throughout an aircraft, having a density of anything like business would incur costs at about the same level.

The upshot would be dramatically less seating (perhaps 60%) available and at a much greater price. To move the same number of people would require total elimination of Covid as a factor, or, many more aircraft.

Not sure that social distancing is really possible on any aircraft, let alone a single aisle plane like a 737. Whilst people are (rightfully) cynical about Michael O'Leary, I think he is right in this article. 18 - 20 inches doesn't come close to the 1.5 - 2 meters recommended (and the passengers in the two aisle seats per row are in the same situation, if not worse, as the aisle and window passengers).

Sure, O'Leary might be liking to make sure the passengers wear the costs for making his flights safe ("Forgot your mask? Get one at the check in counter for only €15!"). That said, I can confirm from personal experience that masks and temperature checks are the method used in Mainland China at the moment while middle seat blocking wasn't in place. Indeed, my last flight was pretty much 100% full. With the disclaimer the I am not a doctor of any sort, I hope that other countries like Australia are looking at examples such as China to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[Happy Trails]

Will be interesting to see if any gov introduces on board social distancing rules for a period of time thus enforcing load factors of <60%

Thailand CAAT is reportedly planning such for when domestic flights resume.

 

[drron]

Whilst a simple mask may reduce the risk of transmission by an infected patient it is much less likely to prevent infection in a person that is not infected.
Certainly here in Australia we should like much of Asia teach people with common cold,flu symptoms to wear a mask as there will be some reduction in the incidence of viral respiratory tract infections.

 

[p--and--t]

Whilst a simple mask may reduce the risk of transmission by an infected patient it is much less likely to prevent infection in a person that is not infected.
Certainly here in Australia we should like much of Asia teach people with common cold,flu symptoms to wear a mask as there will be some reduction in the incidence of viral respiratory tract infections.

Awww. Why use a $1 throwaway when you can charge $50K per seat for a speccy useless invention that helps no-one by overpriced aviation spare part manufacturers.

 

[jb747]

Seats can be moved. If this is to be done, I'd expect the rows to be further apart. Not quite as far as removing one entirely, but close to it. O'Leary's aircraft might end up being able to carry 90 people. It might even be a good time to fly, albeit an expensive one.

As families can sit together, that's about the one way of using any increased density.

 

[p--and--t]

Seats can be moved. If this is to be done, I'd expect the rows to be further apart. Not quite as far as removing one entirely, but close to it. O'Leary's aircraft might end up being able to carry 90 people. It might even be a good time to fly, albeit an expensive one.

As families can sit together, that's about the one way of using any increased density.

The new cheap seat might be booking multiple people on one PNR.

 

[jb747]

Yes. Airlines have taken great delight in splitting families up, and then charging to put them together. Now the opposite is what they want/need.

 

[Quickstatus]

Now we can all get a shadow

 

[Quickstatus]

Wearing a mask can be false security.
Assume the mask is protecting against Covid. So there would be Covid on the outside of the mask. What’s the likelihood that the wearer will touch the outside of the mask. As soon as the wearer takes that mask off to do something and put it back on the wearer has just transmitted to virus from outside the mask to the inside.

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes. Airlines have taken great delight in splitting families up, and then charging to put them together.

Yes it is very unfair that on 2 occasions that MrsQS gets upgraded by QF to A380 F and not me.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I like the idea of bigger seats, further apart, but don’t see it happening. Read a post from someone on a QR flight to DOH who said Y was packed. Below is the seat map for QR909 tonight. The forward cabin looks a lot better than way down the back. .

Thought I saw something (don’t quote me) that suggested the risk zone from an infected passenger, in Y at least, was two rows in front and two rows behind. That’s what appears to be used in Australia as the yardstick for recommending testing of PAX on flights that carried a later confirmed case.

People coming off flights in various places are being quarantined instead. And I can’t see too many governments demanding that their airlines, currently haemorrhaging money, adopt something that will hammer their sales and finances even more.

What might become rather more popular is the existing option with many airlines of purchasing an adjacent seat.

cheers skip

 

[suze2000]

So if you aren't allowed to be served food or drink, and aren't allowed to bring any on board, what do they expect people to do on longish flights? Anything over two hours and a lot of people would be thirsty, at the very least. And most of us eat to stave off boredom on flights.

As for seating, I'd be okay enough with every second seat being filled in Y. ie, pax in an X formation, eg in a 737

xox oxo
oxo xox
xox oxo

etc.

It wouldn't fit the social distancing rules, but is a close compromise between being able to fly and not being able to fly.

 

[Quickstatus]

Uber is a mode of travel. Took an Uber today
Apparently the advice is to only sit in rear.
So an 4 pax Uber can now only seat 3.

Not a lot of social distancing is possible in an Uber/Taxi/Ola

Covid app on. Hopefully I don’t get rung up

 

[JohnK]

Even if they reduced the number of passengers on board aircraft are people likely to risk flying if there is no vaccine? People still move around in flight so when window seat passenger wants to get out where does aisle seat passenger move to let them out? And on longer flights the more movement is needed to stretch and go to toilet and the aisles are very narrow.

What concerns me is the health alert issued for QF614 MEL-BNE on 22 April. One of the passengers tested positive for Covid-19 shortly after arrival and they had recently returned from a cruise? Shouldn't they have spent 14 days in quarantine in MEL?

 

[serfty]

Shouldn't they have spent 14 days in quarantine in MEL?

It is likely they did ...