I wonder had JASA's continued ...

[marki]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Bollocks. They break the rules all the time

Bollocks is metaphorically another word describing the middle finger.

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

While it is self apparent that removal of MASA was a business decision, much of your commentary repeats the usual incorrect assumptions about MASA. The fact remains that MASA came from classic award inventory. The yield on MASA was better than the yield on classic awards. Sure the earned points and SC had a cost, as Lesley Grant mentioned. My answer/question to that is tell me how much you want to charge me. If they were truly making a business decision, why not reprice MASA?

If I were Qantas loyalty I would have kept any seat awards earning SCs and points. The $cost would be the difference between full retail airfare less the value of the points used for the award at 0.7 cents/point.

That's not what you want to hear though is it?

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

If I were Qantas loyalty I would have kept any seat awards earning SCs and points. The $cost would be the difference between full retail airfare less the value of the points used for the award at 0.7 cents/point.

That's not what you want to hear though is it?

Moral high ground and false assumptions. Please quote anywhere that I've stated a price that would or would not be acceptable to me. I have consistently argued that Qantas should have repriced MASA to their own satisfaction. Then I have the option to decide if I want to accept that price or not.

I'm sure Qantas wouldn't adopted a stupid pricing model that double charges for the base fare, as you've proposed. But since Qantas haven't proposed a pricing model, it is completely pointless to discuss price and customer acceptance.

Now back to your cheap status run planning?

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Moral high ground and false assumptions. Please quote anywhere that I've stated a price that would or would not be acceptable to me. I have consistently argued that Qantas should have repriced MASA to their own satisfaction. Then I have the option to decide if I want to accept that price or not.

I'm sure Qantas wouldn't adopted a stupid pricing model that double charges for the base fare, as you've proposed. But since Qantas haven't proposed a pricing model, it is completely pointless to discuss price and customer acceptance.

Moral high ground? I don't agree with the collectives opinion on Any Seat awards.

My pricing model doesn't double charge base fare. If a $1,000 airfare is available for 36,000 QFF points + $100 as a classic award then I think an any seat award should be 36,000 QFF points + $748 and you can earn SCs and points. Have a slider if you like and same any seat award would be ~142,800 QFF points and no cash component. Does that sound fair? I think it is fair for Qantas.

It was a warped anomaly that made no business sense. It's now gone. Anytime I make a comment I am accused of taking moral high ground.

I also don't agree with being able to pay $15 on top of a cheap airfare to earn SCs and points. Is that what people were hoping would have happened with any seat awards?

Now back to your cheap status run planning?

Planned already. Not as cheap as you think.

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Moral high ground? I don't agree with the collectives opinion on Any Seat awards.

My pricing model doesn't double charge base charge. If a $1,000 airfare is available for 36,000 QFF points + $100 as a classic award then I think an any seat award should be 36,000 QFF points + $748 and you can earn SCs and points. Have a slider if you like and same any seat award would be ~142,800 QFF points and no cash component.

It was a silly anomaly that made no business sense. It's now gone. Anytime I make a comment I am accused of taking moral high ground.


Planned already. Not as cheap as you think.

How else would you explain attacking anyone else getting cheap status?

As for your pricing model
(I just know this is going to go over heads but what the hell)

Lets break down a fare into 3 simplistic components.

1. the cost of status/points
2. the cost of the seat (including luggage, food and the rest)
3. fuel/taxes/+++, how every you want to call it.

A cash fare pays for all 3 components. $1000 gets you 1, 2 and 3
A classic award for gets you 2 and 3. 36000 points for 2 and $100 to pay for 3. The points component pays for the cost of the seat, the fare.

With an old MASA you'd pay 36000 points for the fare, $100 for the fuel, and then an extra amount. Lets say that extra amount covers the cost of the SC/points earning, as that's the only difference between a classic award and a MASA. It is hard to accept that the cost of the points/SC earned for a $1000 cash fare is $648 [-]$748[/-]. 65% [-]75%[/-] of any business award is the cost of the SC and points earned on the flight? I don't think so.

Anyway, as only qantas knows the cost of earning this is nothing but pointless speculation.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

...then I think an any seat award should be 36,000 QFF points + $748 and you can earn SCs and points.

but why should jetstar passengers pay $80 as a bundle to get SCs and points, but QFFFers pay $748?

JQ's bundle and the xASA were pretty much identical for the 'bundle' price paid (at least for many international xASA bookings).

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

but why should jetstar passengers pay $80 as a bundle to get SCs and points, but QFFFers pay $748?

JQ's bundle and the xASA were pretty much identical for the 'bundle' price paid (at least for many international xASA bookings).

I assumed he was talking about J fares, but still the J bundle price for JQ is still only around $500 to $600.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

I assumed he was talking about J fares, but still the J bundle price for JQ is still only around $500 to $600.

Just looking for a JQ business class monday 31 August MEL-SIN - fare is $899, the bundle is $200 to earn full SCs and points. And tat $200 includes lounge access - which QF prices at $40 or so (from the time when they were selling Qantas Club guest passes).

I only did one xASA - SYD-HKG... I believe the 'surcharge' (over the classic award alone) was in that region?

 

[greenfish]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

I assumed he was talking about J fares, but still the J bundle price for JQ is still only around $500 to $600.

And the bundle for J fares includes lounge access, so there is a tangible direct cost for the product, over and above the awarding of SCs and points.

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Just looking for a JQ business class monday 31 August MEL-SIN - fare is $899, the bundle is $200 to earn full SCs and points. And tat $200 includes lounge access - which QF prices at $40 or so (from the time when they were selling Qantas Club guest passes).

I only did one xASA - SYD-HKG... I believe the 'surcharge' (over the classic award alone) was in that region?

Possibly in that region. I did a SIN-FRA JASA a few years ago, but don't have the price comparison information on hand. The whole JQ bundle thing helps highlight the contradiction.

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

but why should jetstar passengers pay $80 as a bundle to get SCs and points, but QFFFers pay $748?

JQ's bundle and the xASA were pretty much identical for the 'bundle' price paid (at least for many international xASA bookings).

That's another anomaly I cannot understand. From memory the bundle on say SIN-HKG is a lot less than $80 unless it has gone up recently.

Last night I checked the credit card forum. There were 12+ threads with unread posts and the majority with huge sign on bonuses waiving the first year annual fee. I don't read all the posts but I can see people have been going crazy signing up spouses and pets for multiple signon bonuses.

These are free points. Costs the person nothing. This is madness. Why should Qantas offer the person receiving free signon bonuses a cheap way to status? I am really struggling to understand the arguments for reinstating SC and point earning any seat awards. In my opinion that madness was one of the reasons we are seeing huge changes to Platinum One and Platinum.

As a side note I am seeing less and less availability booking classic awards say 6-9 months out. Flooding the market with free/cheap points is hurting. I don't want to have an ExpertFlyer alert to wake me at 3:24am ~353 days out so I can book award I want. I shouldn't have to.

 

[trixydoza]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

we are seeing huge changes to Platinum One and Platinum

Hyperbole much?

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

That's another anomaly I cannot understand. From memory the bundle on say SIN-HKG is a lot less than $80 unless it has gone up recently.

Last night I checked the credit card forum. There were 12+ threads with unread posts and the majority with huge sign on bonuses waiving the first year annual fee. I don't read all the posts but I can see people have been going crazy signing up spouses and pets for multiple signon bonuses.

These are free points. Costs the person nothing. This is madness. Why should Qantas offer the person receiving free signon bonuses a cheap way to status?

The cost to the person is irrelevant. QANTAS is still getting paid for those sign on bonus points. Qantas are making their money.

I am really struggling to understand the arguments for reinstating SC and point earning any seat awards. In my opinion that madness was one of the reasons we are seeing huge changes to Platinum One and Platinum.

And there is this - No one is arguing to reinstate any seat awards. Why such false assumptions. In your opinion something severely limited over 2 years ago and removed 2 years ago is resulting in changes now. That is completely devoid of any bias in fact. It is a ludicrous opinion based on false assumptions.

I think this quote attributed to Brian Cox says it the best.

The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!

 

[blackcat20]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

But in many cases, the Qantas imposed charges were higher for an xASA than a classic award. IIRC in some cases they were considerably more. In that sense, the awarding of SCs were no different to JQ bundles.

So either JQ has got it wrong with their bundle policy (in which case why are they still offering them), or JQ has it right (and Qf can't really argue the SCs were 'free' or cost them money).

This was my thinking when MASAs were removed. Why is it ok to pay for SC on JQ flights but on QF awards it's 'cheating your way to status'. Id happily pay for a bundle on a classic award to earn SC

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

This was my thinking when MASAs were removed. Why is it ok to pay for SC on JQ flights but on QF awards it's 'cheating your way to status'. Id happily pay for a bundle on a classic award to earn SC

You could also ask why getting cheap flights in Asia, or to/from Asia and adding on a couple of domestic tag flights for a few extra dollars isn't cheating your way to status either. Or why flying around the North America isn't cheating. But someone wants to pay extra for a bundle and they're destroying the whole status system.

 

[JohnK]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Hyperbole much?

That's what I believe. I was at the last loyalty lunch where these concerns were raised.

So far my predictions on Platinum/Gold are becoming true and everyday we hear of less service provided to Platinum Ones.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

Last night I checked the credit card forum. There were 12+ threads with unread posts and the majority with huge sign on bonuses waiving the first year annual fee. I don't read all the posts but I can see people have been going crazy signing up spouses and pets for multiple signon bonuses.

These are free points. Costs the person nothing. This is madness.

You can't sign up pets (they'd never pass the income requirements) - but I know what you mean! And yes I can see your point now that people who otherwise never set foot on a QF plane could end up with status under the ASA scheme. At least with JQ you are buying the base fare to start with.

As we all saw from the QF annual reports, Qantas loyalty made $315 million. That's profit. That profit comes at the expense of the 10.8 million members... whether businesses buy points (and pass the cost on to QFF members), or whether QF loyalty buy a toaster for $5 but charge $50 worth of points to redeem that toaster.

Thankfully I suppose this is where FF ignorance is actually a good thing (for us). Many members probably have no idea what 'oneworld' is all about. They don't know you can redeem your sign-up bonuses on partners like CX or JL. That's probably a good thing, more seats left for those who know otherwise

 

[medhead]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

You can't sign up pets (they'd never pass the income requirements) - but I know what you mean! And yes I can see your point now that people who otherwise never set foot on a QF plane could end up with status under the ASA scheme. At least with JQ you are buying the base fare to start with.

As we all saw from the QF annual reports, Qantas loyalty made $315 million. That's profit. That profit comes at the expense of the 10.8 million members... whether businesses buy points (and pass the cost on to QFF members), or whether QF loyalty buy a toaster for $5 but charge $50 worth of points to redeem that toaster.

Thankfully I suppose this is where FF ignorance is actually a good thing (for us). Many members probably have no idea what 'oneworld' is all about. They don't know you can redeem your sign-up bonuses on partners like CX or JL. That's probably a good thing, more seats left for those who know otherwise

What is the impairment of someone who purchases premium cabin seats, by whatever means, to gain status but then never sets foot on an aircraft again to actually use that status? Putting aside the question of status, those sign on bonus points can be used to purchase premium cabin classic awards.

I don't see any ranting about the madness for classic awards. Only ranting about obtaining cheap status. Unfortunately, all the discussion in this thread has been about pricing so that Qantas gets their desired return for the status. It seems like nonsense to claim this is about getting cheap status.

BTW Qantas loyalty had underlying EBIT of $315 million. That's different to profit.

...

The issue is the false conclusions used to form an opinion that has nothing to do with the discussion.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

What is the impairment of someone who purchases premium cabin seats, by whatever means, to gain status but then never sets foot on an aircraft again to actually use that status? Putting aside the question of status, those sign on bonus points can be used to purchase premium cabin classic awards.

I don't see any ranting about the madness for classic awards. Only ranting about obtaining cheap status. Unfortunately, all the discussion in this thread has been about pricing so that Qantas gets their desired return for the status. It seems like nonsense to claim this is about getting cheap status.

BTW Qantas loyalty had underlying EBIT of $315 million. That's different to profit.

My bad on the Loyalty profit - never was too good at finance!

I was saying I can see JohnK's point - I suppose someone with massive points through CC spend could do one/two trip(s) each year on a FASA, get gold status, then fly economy the rest of the year but have access to Qantas Clubs and business lounges. I dunno.

 

[trixydoza]

Re: I've felt the sting of the QFF Loyalty Middle Finger

My bad on the Loyalty profit - never was too good at finance!

EBIT is most certainly a measure of profit.