Heathrow Blues

[Kiwi Flyer]

The reported problems of queues at LHR is an issue which needs to be addressed. Having security is all fine but they do need to get it running at a reasonable speed; it sounds like it is as bad as some US airports that I have seen ( I have yet to do a connection at LHR , my trips are nearly always O/D in UK)

Some connections are okay. Just the ones that aren't spoil the LHR experience.

Eg T1 dom -> T3 has no security check, bus ride through the bowels of the airport and no queue at transfer desk in T3 to pick up my onward boarding pass. Last year I had a same terminal transfer early one morning and was through security within 5 minutes (albeit after a looong walk from a distant gate).

LHR is definitely not an airport you would want to be using if unable to walk far (unless you have a looong connection to cope with additional delays for wheelchairs).

 

[turtlemichael]

I think I am about to join the growing minority who say that this is all a load of cough designed to make some people feel good but having not much to do with security. All frequent travellers using say one airport regularly can learn the ways to avoid the system very quickly. I know at CNS, both domestic and international, I`ll get the secondary explosives testing if I catch the eye of the one secondary screener. If I look the other way they'll pick someone else. And if I go through with a friend and they catch their eye he'll be checked and I wont. I can do that with a near 100% prediction of the outcome. If I can, so can someone with evil intent. This is not security! And I reckon the same applies at LHR: All the palaver about liquids and no one checks? Gimme a break! Further, at LHR an operator who can provide the best array of duty free shops anywhere but can't manage the number of people going through the airport or manage a queue or have more than half the X ray machines operating or stops the line for 8 minutes while the person viewing the screen changes over, does not have security as its focus. Anyway, its a lovely day in Vienna so I,m going to explore

 

[GDSman]

I transferred T4 > T4 on Sunday. Coming off a JFK flight I joined the transfer queue which I estimate was around 200 metres long....I forgot about the fastrack until a woman shouted that any F/J pax could go to the front of the queue. Felt a bit (but not too much ) guilty as I walked past several hundred people. The BA woman I asked told me that T4 > T4 transfers were averaging 16,000 a day but that on Sunday it was 20,000. Majority are between 06h00 and 10h00 and there are, IIRC, 3 screening points. Many must be missing flights. I would recommend allowing plenty of time if you're transferring there - at least 3 hours (especially if you don't qualify for fasttrack).
Coming back into LHR on Monday morning was a breeze and departure Monday night also very straightforward (although Fasttrack and having everything checked through from the morning helped).
In BOM now and have one last overnight flight tomorrow to get back home...nearly every flight on this trip has had delays for all sorts of reasons (sick pax (LAX), weather (DFW), miscount of luggage (LHR), ATC (BOM) - the list goes on.........).

 

[Reggie]

Amazing how much carry on some folk at the FCC pre-queue had (before they were turned away).

It takes alot to amaze me about other carry on luggage now a days. When I first started flying I was gob smacked, especially in the US.:shock:

 

[Reggie]

On my latest visit we had pre-queues to join the pre-queue! If they'd taken some staff who just stood there yelling at people, and put them on screening stations, the queues would be shorter.

Kiwi Flyer I had the same experience with the pre queue to join the pre-queue. It was intersting a woman was tryin gto jump all the queue's as she had a short connection and more than one bag. She was yelling and screaming at the staff that she didn't have time to check in one of her bags. Then one staff memeber pointed out she was in the wrong line and that (I think it was) T3 was 50 mins away and she basically had already missed her flight, so go check in your luggage and deal with it.:-|

 

[clifford]

You were not going from a secure area to another. Since you had arrived from overseas, you were classed as not having cleared security, hence the security check

If people have more than 1 carry on, then they are doing their job well in stopping them

Dave

Dear Dave,

From my own experience, I don't think they "do their job well" at all. And let me say before anyone wonders about it, I carry an EU (UK) passport.

I was recently passing through security in T3 and I had 1 piece of carry-on, plus a newspaper in a plastic bag that I had just bought at the airport. I was told that I couldn't clear security with these "two" bags, but if I took the newspaper out of the plastic bag and caried it in my hand it would be OK.

There's a sensible and logical system for you.

And you endorse it?

 

[Dave Noble]

Dear Dave,

From my own experience, I don't think they "do their job well" at all. And let me say before anyone wonders about it, I carry an EU (UK) passport.

I was recently passing through security in T3 and I had 1 piece of carry-on, plus a newspaper in a plastic bag that I had just bought at the airport. I was told that I couldn't clear security with these "two" bags, but if I took the newspaper out of the plastic bag and caried it in my hand it would be OK.

There's a sensible and logical system for you.

And you endorse it?

Actually I do. By making it precise with no exceptions it avoids the creep of additional things being permitted, whether it be a newspaper in a bag , a handbag or anything else plus avoids the "WAAAAH!, but he was allowed to take a second item" arguments. I think that a definitive , unambiguous statement of "ONE PIECE" is clear and a sensible way to go about it.

Those with a newspaper can quite easily put it in their bag along with the other contents

Not that I see the relevance, but I also hold a UK passport ( along with an Australian one )

Dave

 

[turtlemichael]

Actually I do. By making it precise with no exceptions it avoids the creep of additional things being permitted, whether it be a newspaper in a bag , a handbag or anything else plus avoids the "WAAAAH!, but he was allowed to take a second item" arguments. I think that a definitive , unambiguous statement of "ONE PIECE" is clear and a sensible way to go about it.

Those with a newspaper can quite easily put it in their bag along with the other contents

Not that I see the relevance, but I also hold a UK passport ( along with an Australian one )

Dave

We are all entitled to our opinion. I dont endorse a system which, as I saw yesterday, told a man to put his normal size wallet away as that constituted a second item, takes over an hour to clear, is conducted without any semblance of organization and bad grace because the staff are no doubt sick of hearing the whinges from the public, by its pettiness does sfa to add to anyone's real security, treats people like cattle when they are at their most vulnerable after up to 24 hours on a plane and is effectively not available for use by anyone even maginally old or infim. Those who support it have the responsibility of justifying how a mess like occurs at LHR actually improves security.

 

[Dave Noble]

We are all entitled to our opinion. I dont endorse a system which, as I saw yesterday, told a man to put his normal size wallet away as that constituted a second item, takes over an hour to clear, is conducted without any semblance of organization and bad grace because the staff are no doubt sick of hearing the whinges from the public, by its pettiness does sfa to add to anyone's real security, treats people like cattle when they are at their most vulnerable after up to 24 hours on a plane and is effectively not available for use by anyone even maginally old or infim. Those who support it have the responsibility of justifying how a mess like occurs at LHR actually improves security.

I do not support having a system in place that causes long delays at security however that is different to whether I support the enforcement of the 1 piece of hand luggage rule.

Before the rule was brought in, airlines were abysmal at making any effort to actually enforce their own rules ( most of which iirc had a limit of 1 piece in economy ). There is a 1 piece allowance ex UK and to have it consistently enforced is absolutely proper

LHR ( and others ) should be required to improve their screening processes ( e.g. by providing more screening points ) to ensure that passengers can get through in a timely manner ( without using Zone R / Fast Track)

Dave

 

[Reggie]

I do not support having a system in place that causes long delays at security however that is different to whether I support the enforcement of the 1 piece of hand luggage rule.

Before the rule was brought in, airlines were abysmal at making any effort to actually enforce their own rules ( most of which iirc had a limit of 1 piece in economy ). There is a 1 piece allowance ex UK and to have it consistently enforced is absolutely proper

LHR ( and others ) should be required to improve their screening processes ( e.g. by providing more screening points ) to ensure that passengers can get through in a timely manner ( without using Zone R / Fast Track)

Dave

Here Here, Dave Noble for PM, or at least the right man to sort them out.

For all the complaints about the US Imigration, I find the security to be extremely good, banks and banks of scanners. Other than Atlanta, everywhere has been so quick, and smooth. I have heard the operators actually complain because they are bored and should be let go home because it is so quiet. Atlanta OTH was absolute rubbish 2 machines, as slow as a wet week, but had something to do with numerous other airports shut etc.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

It takes alot to amaze me about other carry on luggage now a days. When I first started flying I was gob smacked, especially in the US.:shock:

how about not 1 but 2 large wheely suitcases, both much bigger than my non-carry on suitcase, ie I'd conservatively estimate 30kg each

plus laptop bag on the handles of one wheely

plus a large duffel bag

plus several stuffed duty free bags


all this for one person, as their carry on :shock:

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

treats people like cattle when they are at their most vulnerable after up to 24 hours on a plane

more than 24 hours for some - my last 2 arrivals at FCC security queues were after 31 hours travel and after 35 hours travel

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Before the rule was brought in, airlines were abysmal at making any effort to actually enforce their own rules ( most of which iirc had a limit of 1 piece in economy ).

Maybe on the airlines you fly, but I've long been able to have 2 carry ons PLUS personal items even when flying economy. Except now not departing UK.

The UK 1 piece limit is nothing to do with security. Only the airport operator trying their best to avoid hiring enough staff, or deploying them in the right areas (witness all those yelling at queues that could have manned screeners thus cutting back the need for major queues and the queue yellers).

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

For all the complaints about the US Imigration, I find the security to be extremely good, banks and banks of scanners. Other than Atlanta, everywhere has been so quick, and smooth. I have heard the operators actually complain because they are bored and should be let go home because it is so quiet. Atlanta OTH was absolute rubbish 2 machines, as slow as a wet week, but had something to do with numerous other airports shut etc.

US immigration is different to security and the experience varies markedly! For immigration LAX is bad at all the terminals I have arrived internationally (TBIT & T2 many many times), whereas SFO is normally okay but sometimes unlucky to arrive after the europe and asia flights and thus get 1 hour + queues. EWR was the best, but only because SQ had smoothed the way for me to use an empty crew lane.

Security queues vary enormously by airport and time of day. There's been quiet times in the middle of the day when I've walked straight through security - only the annoyance for belt, shoes and liquids. Other times it can take an hour or more (at the same airport).

 

[Dave Noble]

Maybe on the airlines you fly, but I've long been able to have 2 carry ons PLUS personal items even when flying economy. Except now not departing UK.
.

Well, you do fly on Qantas - From the QF website

All International* First/Business:
2 x 115cm (45in) bags or
1 x 115cm (45in) bag plus 1 x 185cm (73in) non rigid garment bag
Economy:
1 x 115cm (45in) bag or
1 x 185cm (73in) non rigid garment bag

As it states, the published allowance on Qantas is 1 piece*only* in economy with a weight limit of 7Kg. You having being able to take 3 carry on pieces supports the view that the airlines do not enforce their own rules. If the airlines were doing so, then I doubt that the UK would have brought it in as a legal requirement

The allowance permitted by BA Security checkpoints of 1 piece of 56cmx45cmx25cm is more than Qantas's own published allowance for economy of 1 piece of 56cmx36cmx23cm

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

A poor example given I have never flown QF in economy through LHR, and further the 2 bags PLUS personal items was within the published rules at the time of all the airlines involved. So in my case at least, it wasn't a case of airlines not meeting their own rules.

 

[Dave Noble]

A poor example given I have never flown QF in economy through LHR, and further the 2 bags PLUS personal items was within the published rules at the time of all the airlines involved. So in my case at least, it wasn't a case of airlines not meeting their own rules.

Not a poor example I would say since that is the QF allowance for all international flights not just ex London. This is also the same cabin baggage allowance that Air New Zealand publishes.

Pacific Economy and Pacific Premium Economy Class customers may take one piece of cabin baggage with a maximum weight of 7kg (15lbs) and maximum total dimensions (length + width + height) of 115cm (45").

Cabin Baggage: Baggage: Travel Info: Air New Zealand - NZ Site

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

It is a poor example because you used it in attempt to contradict my own experience and show that airlines are breaking the rules in my reported successes with 2 carry ons PLUS personal items.

Qantas in economy is not one of my own experiences referred to. But while we are here, I have flown Qantas in business through LHR and been allowed in accordance with the rules (before the UK rule changes) 2 carry ons.

 

[Dave Noble]

It is a poor example because you used it in attempt to contradict my own experience and show that airlines are breaking the rules in my reported successes with 2 carry ons PLUS personal items.

I am using it to demonstrate how the airlines publish a cabin baggage allowance however they fail to enforce it. You have stated how you have been able to take multiple pieces on in economy class which on many airlines is more than the 1 piece allowed for economy. Now the rule is being enforced for them in the UK
Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Not a poor example I would say since that is the QF allowance for all international flights not just ex London. This is also the same cabin baggage allowance that Air New Zealand publishes.

Pacific Economy and Pacific Premium Economy Class customers may take one piece of cabin baggage with a maximum weight of 7kg (15lbs) and maximum total dimensions (length + width + height) of 115cm (45").

Cabin Baggage: Baggage: Travel Info: Air New Zealand - NZ Site

Dave

You missed out the next paragraph. Business Class and Star Alliance Gold customers (including Airpoints Gold and Gold Elite) are permitted two pieces with same conditions as above.

Then further down goes on to explain a small laptop is personal item, thus not included in the 2 pieces allowed.