Heads up about program changes

[Brettmcg]

I have always been/probably always will be a big QF fan boy and I must admit, apart from 200 points less on my weekly SYD-MEL-SYD commutes I won't be worse off, in fact overall I'll probably be better off. In one way it has justified my loyalty to flying on QF metal and code where humanly possible, rather than relying on OW and other partners.

What does concern me greatly is the haphazard way in which the details have been released. The tables are terribly difficult to understand and certainly not any simpler than the old ones. There was detail missing, links were broken and no calculator was available and when it did become available it doesn't work. Furthermore, I've just received a news release from QF corporate sales which reads terribly (using various, non-matching personal pronouns but not ascribing an author's name/signature to the email). A small issue, I know, but it smacks of haste and a lack of forethought.

For me, the QF world continues to spin and I will continue to support my favourite airline as much as I can, however with every ''enhancement'' I feel like I am moving closer to a breaking point.

 

[medhead]

Yes, but will any seat awards in P/Z/X/U class booked between 29th March and June 30th inclusve earn points/SC's? (Even under the new scheme)

Having stupidly assumed the Terms and Conditions would provide for earning on ASA; I now have to say it's not clear at all. Relevant clauses would be 9.3.1, 9.3.2 and 9.4. I'll leave it to others to make their own assessment. But on balance I'd have to say 9.4.1(a) says no earn after 30 June 2014 for MASA, as X,U, etc. will not be listed in the earning table. Qantas or Red Roo making misleading statements here.

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions

 

[maninblack]

The airline is run by idiots. End of story really.

 

[medhead]

I have always been/probably always will be a big QF fan boy and I must admit, apart from 200 points less on my weekly SYD-MEL-SYD commutes I won't be worse off, in fact overall I'll probably be better off. In one way it has justified my loyalty to flying on QF metal and code where humanly possible, rather than relying on OW and other partners.

What does concern me greatly is the haphazard way in which the details have been released. The tables are terribly difficult to understand and certainly not any simpler than the old ones. There was detail missing, links were broken and no calculator was available and when it did become available it doesn't work. Furthermore, I've just received a news release from QF corporate sales which reads terribly (using various, non-matching personal pronouns but not ascribing an author's name/signature to the email). A small issue, I know, but it smacks of haste and a lack of forethought.

For me, the QF world continues to spin and I will continue to support my favourite airline as much as I can, however with every ''enhancement'' I feel like I am moving closer to a breaking point.

You've not even mentioned that incorrect information or the misleading and deceptive information being provided.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

SMH article with comments by Tony Webber, former Qantas chief economist:

Former Qantas chief economist Tony Webber said the change made sense economically, but was a public relations misstep.

"The timing is poor," said Mr Webber [...] "These sorts of announcements scare people that are loyal to them [Qantas]," he said. "People are fed up with Qantas making changes that worry them." The changes may also see some leisure travel customers that had stuck with Qantas' mainline service to earn frequent flyer points drift back to Jetstar to get cheaper fares, he said. This could affect the overall yield of fares.

I'd add, not just Jetstar but other airlines entirely.

While the changes Qantas announced relate to its own services, any drop in the overall popularity of its frequent flyers program could have a flow-on effect to many customer incentive programs around the country.

The impact on QFF partner programmes hasn't really been discussed so far.

​

 

[ejd711]

Now to be known as Memorable Any Seat Awards

Why yes, yes they do.

Looks like I'll gear the Credit Card earn around the AMEX Platinum Edge Card. Any tips re non airline affiliated Visa/Mastercards?

Yes yes - I was just thinking exactly the same thing re. my CC spend. Have the AMEX Plat Edge too but for the non-Amex spends....

 

[nlagalle]

I have always been/probably always will be a big QF fan boy and I must admit, apart from 200 points less on my weekly SYD-MEL-SYD commutes I won't be worse off, in fact overall I'll probably be better off. In one way it has justified my loyalty to flying on QF metal and code where humanly possible, rather than relying on OW and other partners.

Are you eDeal up flexi back? My take was I'd still get 2000 points as it would be 800/1200 instead of 1000/1000

 

[scheps]

damn sc runs in the states will be interesting...

 

[awilcockson]

I would not be hording QF points!!!

I'm about to turn ~500K points into woolies gift cards ... QF don't care about my loyalty so it looks as though my big family trip to the US next year will probably be on air new zealand or whoever happens to have the cheapest airfare at the time the flights become available ... and I'll save a small fortune in the process.

It's funny I've always had the fight to get work to pay more to put me on QF flights. Well that stops today. I really wish this announcement had been made a day earlier so that I could have booked both my flights next week with VA.

 

[Aggi]

Here's an idea for an enhancement Qantas. If you want to increase the loyalty of your shareholders (and perhas the shareprice) why not offer frequent flyer points to Qantas shareholders? Offering 1 or 2 QFF points annually for each share owned (say with a max of 100,000 points) might encourage more shareholders and compensate them for not getting any dividends.

 

[Timsboot]

I'm one of those high status customers who got there by "gaming" the system.

.......

The marginal increase in revenue (or decrease in liabilities, which has the same effect on the bottom line) as a result of this - quite frankly utilitarian nonsensical - behaviour is high. Increase in revenue/decrease in liabilities: thousands of dollars.

......
Speaking more generally, these changes seem to have been implemented on the assumption that relatively few people will change their purchasing behaviour adversely as a result, thereby generating fewer liabilities/costs for Qantas for the same travel/revenue. And/or it assumes that relatively many people will pay an even higher premium for the same benefits - eg changing from a partner airline flight to a Qantas flight, or a sale fare to a flexible fare, or from economy to business, in order to chase points and status credits. If these assumptions are correct, then the changes will be to Qantas's financial benefit. If they aren't, it will only further erode their profitability and long-term brand loyalty.

In addition to making money for QF you were (most likely) an advocate. You (I assume like me) told all of your friends about how amazing the lounges were. You talked about your status being "absolutely worth it". You entertained (ok bored to tears) anyone next you at a dinner party about how great it was to be a loyal QF flyer. That is now gone. Now my friends will be bored to death of me talking about how I never imagined that I would be better off with AA than QF. The value of that to Qantas? priceless

 

[Brettmcg]

You've not even mentioned that incorrect information or the misleading and deceptive information being provided.

Didn't mention it because I haven't come across any (so far) and I'm not concerned with the content of the changes, just the amateurish way they've been announced.

 

[medhead]

Fewer low-profit customers flying, more higher profit customers flying = QANTAS might actually make money/cover cost of capital, and survive.

The status quo is QANTAS keeps losing more and/or not covering cost of capital, and does an Ansett. Then there will be no planes and no routes at all.

Wake up to commercial reality guys - what they're doing today is not sustainable.

How about you wake up to commercial reality. Higher profit customers are meaningless if the back of the plane is empty. It really is as simple as that. Sorry but a single $10000 business ticket is not worth more than 36 $1750 tickets. Take a 737 ADL-SYD 12 business seats @ $800 = $9600 Versus Red-e-deals a minimum of 9@$119, 9@$125, 9@160, 9@$189, 9@$209 and 9@$229 = $9279. As has been mentioned a few times Qantas has high fixed cost. Profit margin on one ticket is absolutely meaningless if they aren't getting the revenue to cover costs. Selling high profit seats but not covering your cost means there is no profit. ​

They need to fill every seat on the plane across all fares. Not fly empty planes around.

 

[glaw]

Looks to me like they've taken down the new points calculator. The link on the information page "introducing a simpler, fairer flying program" now takes me to the old caculator.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

In addition to making money for QF you were (most likely) an advocate. You (I assume like me) told all of your friends about how amazing the lounges were. You talked about your status being "absolutely worth it". You entertained (ok bored to tears) anyone next you at a dinner party about how great it was to be a loyal QF flyer. That is now gone. Now my friends will be bored to death of me talking about how I never imagined that I would be better off with AA than QF. The value of that to Qantas? priceless

I actually talked a friend who works for a Virgin company (not the airline, admittedly) into re-entering the QFFP snipe hunt after guesting her into the QF lounge a couple of times. (She'd had a bad customer service experience some years ago and had refused to chase points after that.) Guess what I'll be talking about next time I see her?

 

[amaroo]

damn sc runs in the states will be interesting...

Yes. What's the prognosis with these runs? Looks like they're rooted IMO.

 

[medhead]

Didn't mention it because I haven't come across any (so far) and I'm not concerned with the content of the changes, just the amateurish way they've been announced.

I guess since you don't read my posts you haven't come across it. How about the whole short haul domestic table being exactly the same as the medium haul table? Amateurish and wrong, does not even reflect the content of the changes.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Fewer low-profit customers flying, more higher profit customers flying = QANTAS might actually make money/cover cost of capital, and survive.

Nice in theory, but profit isn't attained per customer, its attained per flight. Perhaps their intention is less passengers and more freight?

The status quo is QANTAS keeps losing more and/or not covering cost of capital, and does an Ansett. Then there will be no planes and no routes at all.

Wake up to commercial reality guys - what they're doing today is not sustainable.

I understand why you are supportive of these changes, you see less "low-profit" passengers impacting on your level of service, somehow implying your quality of service will improve. But if we want to talk reality how about:

*fewer options for selecting QF destinations
*continued degradation of the FF programme in an attempt at reducing liabilities
*higher fares in an attempt to increase the revenue from those "high-profit" customers
*QF sweating their assets - reduced lounges, reduced service in said lounges
*Qantas flights morphing into Jetstar routes in a further attempt at cost cutting, (hopefully this will expose the *true* cost base that JQ has rather)


All the above, it should be mentioned, are management related issues.

 

[dodgeyhack]

The decision has now been made to discontinue “MASAs” as they represent a short cut to tier status and add a significant cost without the revenue in return.

If the short cut to tier status is really part of the reason then I wouldn't expect any more double SC offers.

 

[samh004]

Hey...the new calculator is fantastic!

View attachment 26668

So it's not just me, see you in there!

Removing the "Your Last Activity" line from the FF landing page might be a sneaky way to increase breakage :O

View attachment 26669

I couldn't for the life 2of me work out what used to be there, thanks for letting me know. Not sure why they'd want to remove that.

Wow is this a record 513 users?

I'm not sure about in a thread, but: "Most users ever online was 1,356, 12th March 2014 at 05:25 PM."