Hawaiian Partnership

[777]

Apparently JB let this one slip at a business luncheon today.

Virgin to partner with Hawaiian Airlines

"Virgin Blue is poised to announce a fourth international partnership, this time with Hawaiian Airlines, and has set its sights on Asian expansion.

"We're in the process of having advanced discussions with Hawaiian Airlines and you will see us put out those new flights to Hawaii from Australia shortly," Virgin chief executive John Borghetti revealed at a Sydney business luncheon."

Probably pretty logical given they are already a FF partner. Sounds like a codeshare to Hawaii and ideally a little more - would be nice to see full status earning and FF reciprocity/ status recognition, etc and codeshare/ earning on the various one stop flights on the Hawaiian network would be nice.

Anyone know more or want to speculate?

 

[lovestotravel]

You can already earn and redeem points on Hawaiian airlines so not sure what the big deal is about this one, but I guess a full code-share arrangement is slightly better...

Not impressed by Virgin just code-sharing with all these airlines though.

Etihad
Air NZ
Hawaiian
Asia.... (Who can they use here)

Code-shares, to me, don't mean much. You end up flying with a different airline, with different aircraft, with different service and different everything. It doesn't really create loyalty with Virgin. For the majority of customers they are going to think "Oh we just flew on Air NZ, but it was marked as a Virgin flight number", next time we'll just fly Air NZ then.

For most of us on here, it does make a difference because we are all chasing as many FF points as possible

I would be more impressed if Virgin came out and actually few to more destinations instead of just slapping their flight number and name on flights.

 

[777]

Not impressed by Virgin just code-sharing with all these airlines though.

Etihad
Air NZ
Hawaiian
Asia.... (Who can they use here)

Code-shares, to me, don't mean much. You end up flying with a different airline, with different aircraft, with different service and different everything. It doesn't really create loyalty with Virgin. For the majority of customers they are going to think "Oh we just flew on Air NZ, but it was marked as a Virgin flight number", next time we'll just fly Air NZ then.

I think you're missing the point. It's not just about code sharing with these airlines but about mutual recognition of benefits across the networks.

The fact that i can book a EY flight with VA code means not much to me but the fact that my Gold Status, lounge access, etc is recognised across the entire EY network is actually pretty bloody useful. The same now applies Virgin Atlantic, to Delta (although only the lounges they themselves operate) and will soon apply to ANZ etc.

This to me is the point. I can now fly to most of the world (excluding the bloody great big hole that is Asia right now - hurry up and fix it DJ!) on an airline that not only lets me earn and burn FF points, but also recognises me as a top tier flyer with Lounge access etc.

All this has come a long way in the last 12 months and frankly the more partners / destinations the merrier!

777.

 

[lovestotravel]

Is this the same as last time I was missing the point with the slow rollout of DJ's new products :shock:.......

The average Joe blow will remember the airline he flew on and where he flew to and that's about it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I get lounge access either through Priority Pass or my ticket anyways, so lounge access is irrelevant to me, and again to the majority of people.

The Hawaiian airline lounge in Honolulu is nothing to write home about.

 

[777]

The average Joe blow will remember the airline he flew on and where he flew to and that's about it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I get lounge access either through Priority Pass or my ticket anyways, so lounge access is irrelevant to me, and again to the majority of people.

The Hawaiian airline lounge in Honolulu is nothing to write home about.

The point here is not the "average Joe blow" it's that DJ/VA need to build a network of partners and relationships to compete with QF for business contracts. As part of that, they need to be able to offer services to a wide range of destinations and ideally ensure that high tier flyers are looked after when travelling on other airlines around the world.

I don't think i'm being particularly radical in suggesting that given that the lack of international recognition -- along with the variable quality of the product - have been the key reasons most often given on these forums for why existing business clients will continue to stick with QF.

DJ are clearly working to rectify this. The HA deal is probably not all that significant in and of itself - may not amount to much at all - but this is the first time i've heard *anyone* on these forums seriously suggest that mutual status recognition with international airlines is not important.

Is this the same as last time I was missing the point with the slow rollout of DJ's new products :shock:.......

Yes, it is and don't worry i'm not actually expecting you to respond to the substantial point this time either.

777.

 

[dk4]

For the majority of customers they are going to think "Oh we just flew on Air NZ, but it was marked as a Virgin flight number", next time we'll just fly Air NZ then.

For this specific example, it is a mute point if travelling TransTasman; as Air NZ and Virgin will be operating as a single joint venture company. Part of their application involved "Metal Neutrality", which means that Virgin in the Pacific (short haul) will be modelling its product on AirNZs "Seats to Suit". (If it doesn't, it will be a violation of the joint venture approval, given on both sides of the ditch, unless AirNZ ditches Seats to Suit.)

Although, all other things equal, I would prefer flying in an A320 over a B737.

Otherwise IMO, if Virgin manages to pull off a pseudo-alliance with its "partner strategy", giving competitive benefits to Oneworld, it will provide an effective alternative to Qantas.

 

[straitman]

The Hawaiian airline lounge in Honolulu is nothing to write home about.

Many lounges in many airports are nothing to write home about (incl the QP/AA lounge in HNL) but on most occasions they are better than no lounge :!:

 

[lovestotravel]

but this is the first time i've heard *anyone* on these forums seriously suggest that mutual status recognition with international airlines is not important.

That's nice to know.

Etihad is of no interest to me
Hawaiian airlines is of no interest to me

Hawaii flights for me are on Jetstar in *Class with a sale fare of about $1500 return, Hawaiian want $6200 return.....

Singapore/Europe flights are on Singapore airlines for me, in J class. Or Qantas for the next few times with their 2 for 1 J sale.

Status recognition (basically lounge access) and extra baggage on Etihad or Hawaiian mean zero to me.

Again, I honestly feel for the majority of people going to Hawaii, they wouldn't even know what status is That being said at least 30-40 people are in the lounge in HNL for most flights I have been on. But the other 200+ people just want a cheap airfare and wouldn't be earning FF points, so again status/lounge is not a selling point.

I give DJ 1 star for trying something else, but it's not going to amount to much IMO

 

[lovestotravel]

For this specific example, it is a mute point if travelling TransTasman; as Air NZ and Virgin will be operating as a single joint venture company. Part of their application involved "Metal Neutrality", which means that Virgin in the Pacific (short haul) will be modelling its product on AirNZs "Seats to Suit". (If it doesn't, it will be a violation of the joint venture approval, given on both sides of the ditch, unless AirNZ ditches Seats to Suit.)

Although, all other things equal, I would prefer flying in an A320 over a B737.

Otherwise IMO, if Virgin manages to pull off a pseudo-alliance with its "partner strategy", giving competitive benefits to Oneworld, it will provide an effective alternative to Qantas.

I was wondering what was going to happen with the Air NZ alliance, so this confirms that DJ will fit out their "NZ fleet" with the same seating and product and offerings as Air NZ (trans tasman)

 

[dk4]

...so this confirms that DJ will fit out their "NZ fleet" with the same seating and product and offerings as Air NZ (trans tasman)

Personally, I can't confirm anything, other than what I saw written in the publicly available joint venture proposal, presented by the two airlines to regulator bodies.

How "metal neutrality" is precisely implemented, is yet to be made public. However, as it was a core component of the application, I expect to see it happen*, otherwise, I expect to see relevant authorities in both countries react.

* and I also expect to see it happen, as per the exact reasons, which you outlined in the original quote.

 

[LiamR]

This to me is the point. I can now fly to most of the world (excluding the bloody great big hole that is Asia right now - hurry up and fix it DJ!)

+1 Everytime I plan a trip to Asia, particually Singapore, I think to myself, *Sigh* No status. And re-route.

**Looks at CrazyDave98 Coughs... SQ Coughts... **

Which airline would everybody want to be partnered with DJ?

On another note, Status Recgonition with Emriates and ANZ areof great benefit to me, avoiding being tied to oneworld for a bit...

 

[scibo10]

The rationale that JB uses to argue against DJ/VA joining an alliance is that it makes more sense to partner with the leading airlines in particular geographic areas, rather than being confined to members of an alliance.

To date, this is in line with his current partnerships; Etihad for middle east (rumour is that Emirates is almost impossible to codeshare with), Delta (2nd largest US carrier), Air NZ (most flights tasman route), Aerolineas Argentinas (national carrier of Argentina but pretty small).

So for Asia, Singapore Airlines would spring to mind, but possibly Malaysia Airlines, Hainan Airlines or another Chinese carrier. My best guesses here...

 

[allitsab]

Well, I'd hope they are able to partner with Hawaiian a little better than current.

On a recent US trip, I booked some flights from LA-HNL-SD on Hawaiian, thru the HA website.

Nowhere to quote a Velocity number there, so ring the airline - they know nothing about a points arrangement, but suggest asking at the gate. Again, no dice - they don't even know who Virgin Blue or Velocity are. Finally, on return to AU, calling Velocity got the response "we dont have an agreement with HA".

GG

At least my side trips with Virgin America all worked out OK..
​

 

[Misha]

Perhaps on its own it doesn't sound much, but if DJ keep up this approach and continue with strategic partnerships, I think it is a great (cost effective) way for them to compete with the QF monopoly.

I would like to see the Asian carrier announced soon. I would be happy with Malaysian, SQ too would be good. Other than that I think Thai would be a good option (business and leisure market with BKK, HKT, etc) - though personally I don't want to see an alliance with the Chinese carriers. I have been to China a few times (love it) but really CX is the only option I have to get there. I have flown other airlines and well.... let's leave it at that!

 

[medhead]

+1 Everytime I plan a trip to Asia, particually Singapore, I think to myself, *Sigh* No status. And re-route.
..

Of course if you were prepared to fly via BNE you could get status for BNE-SIN on the etihad/VA codeshare

 

[larry40]

allitsab - maybe worth trying to call HA again. The person I spoke to at the overseas HA call centre knew exactly what Velocity points were but when she looked up my booking said my flights didn't qualify due to the class I was booked in which I think may have been 'L' - a super cheapie HNL-LAX-HNL.

I then checked the HA website - she was spot on. It had a list of the class codes.

Airline Partner Programs
Fly HA and earn credit into other airline frequent flyer programs.
Virgin Blue/Velocity members can earn velocity points on all ELIGIBLE fare classes on HA.

 

[crazydave98]

For most of us on here, it does make a difference because we are all chasing as many FF points as possible

Precisely why we're doing codeshares and reciprical recognition of status/lounge benefits with airlines that between them will give us global coverage

I would be more impressed if Virgin came out and actually few to more destinations instead of just slapping their flight number and name on flights.

You might be more impressed but our shareholders wont be. Have you seen the comments in the press by Alan Joyce saying that Qantas' long haul network is unprofitable and that they are reviewing its future?

Why would we invest billions of dollars for no return to fly to Europe when we can put our code on a first class airline (one of only a handful of 5 star rated airlines) such as Etihad? You say Etihad is of no interest to you yet you fly J class to Europe? Sorry, you will just have to stay unimpressed and uninterested.

 

[oz_mark]

So for Asia, Singapore Airlines would spring to mind, but possibly Malaysia Airlines, Hainan Airlines or another Chinese carrier. My best guesses here...

I'm waiting to hear who it is as well. Depending on who they go with makes a big difference to me given my general travel. Although it would not be any use to me, I would also suggest that a Japanese carrier is also possible.

 

[notzac]

Although it would not be any use to me, I would also suggest that a Japanese carrier is also possible.

Funny you should mention that -- I've been thinking for some time that it would make sense for VA to work with NH.

 

[lovestotravel]

Precisely why we're doing codeshares and reciprical recognition of status/lounge benefits with airlines that between them will give us global coverage

You might be more impressed but our shareholders wont be. Have you seen the comments in the press by Alan Joyce saying that Qantas' long haul network is unprofitable and that they are reviewing its future?

Why would we invest billions of dollars for no return to fly to Europe when we can put our code on a first class airline (one of only a handful of 5 star rated airlines) such as Etihad? You say Etihad is of no interest to you yet you fly J class to Europe? Sorry, you will just have to stay unimpressed and uninterested.

I wouldn't mention shareholders at present, hows that share-price going? Seems that most investors have little interest in DJ...The decision to fly to Fiji, Thailand with 777's that went well........ :shock: Premium Economy, that went well too.....

As for Qantas, they have Jetstar, which is a nice little cash cow. DJ has well, nothing than can compete. Jetstar will have 787's shortly (maybe...)and they will surely eat into DJ's market share on the USA route. As for Qantas stopping "long-haul" flying, that's been well known for years, once again Jetstar..... DJ's answer instead is to add another codeshare..... :shock:

As I said, much easier to slap a DJ code on as many airlines as possible and hope for the best. Passengers remember the actual airline, not a code, when they end up on a Etihad flight, they will remember the Etihad flight/crew/seat, and not that they booked it through DJ's website. They will book directly with Etihad next time. Yes Yes I heard JB ramble on many time about how great the Etihad code-share is, how they have saved billions of $$ but not having to order aircraft to fly to Europe etc etc..... But again, yawn, it's just a code-share.

I know lots of people that are "unimpressed and uninterested" with the silly little announcements that DJ are making. Just get on with the show and announce the whole range of improvements and a time-frame to implement it.