Have you had to change/cancel travel due to 2019 n-CoV (involuntarily or voluntarily)? | Page 48 | Australian Frequent Flyer
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Have you had to change/cancel travel due to 2019 n-CoV (involuntarily or voluntarily)?

Flashback

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Just started receiving cancellations for my trips in July. Given they're all now canned it's making me more and more likely to head down to Aus for a bit. Summer is 'cancelled'. At least Perth winter is not too dissimilar to UK summer.
 

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Can they quote the relevant legislation though? Seems like fake news to me. There was talk about relaxations around EU261/2004 for example but it was only a suggestion a voucher could be offered and they said the full legislation still applies and a refund must be offered within 7 days.
My research led me to C(2020) 3125 final COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION of 13.5.2020 on vouchers offered to passengers and travellers as an alternative to reimbursement for cancelled package travel and transport services in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.

This recommendations states inter alia that carriers or organisers may propose to passengers or travellers, as an alternative to reimbursement in money, and subject to the passenger’s or traveller’s voluntary acceptance. (My boldings)

I have gone back to the cruise line with a copy of that document and asking if they stand by their original advice that they would process the refund as soon as practically possible, or not. It's a waiting game now...
 

MEL_Traveller

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Can they quote the relevant legislation though? Seems like fake news to me. There was talk about relaxations around EU261/2004 for example but it was only a suggestion a voucher could be offered and they said the full legislation still applies and a refund must be offered within 7 days.
IIRC there's a distinction between EU261 - which is still law and hasn't been relaxed - and countries which have unilaterally 'relaxed' the requirements of EU261, to allow a voucher. For example I think Germany is one of those countries.

OATEK's reply states that the company is both headquartered and operates within countries of the European jurisdiction that have enacted relevant laws supporting a voucher scheme ... so they basically seem to be suggesting they are operating in one of those countries that is outside of the normal EU261 law :(
 

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IIRC there's a distinction between EU261 - which is still law and hasn't been relaxed - and countries which have unilaterally 'relaxed' the requirements of EU261, to allow a voucher. For example I think Germany is one of those countries.

OATEK's reply states that the company is both headquartered and operates within countries of the European jurisdiction that have enacted relevant laws supporting a voucher scheme ... so they basically seem to be suggesting they are operating in one of those countries that is outside of the normal EU261 law :(
If you're in the EU, the law applies - no ifs or buts. Regardless of what 'local' jurisdictions try to suggest. It's for reasons like this that the UK wanted to leave the EU, to enable them to have more control and write their own laws.
 

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So what have people's experiences been with Qatar for refunds? Mine was pretty good, returned in 2 weeks. My folks, not so great. Still waiting. I messaged QatarAirways Support (@qrsupport) on Twitter and had a response within a few hours saying they would look at it.

Less than 24 hours later, I've now had an e-mail saying the refund has been processed (and could take up to 28 days to hit the statement, but erm ..... yeah, OK). In any case, if you're still waiting then it's probably worth pinging their Twitter team as they seem to be able to push it through the queue.

I was a bit sneaky and also included the PNR for a refund request I submitted yesterday. That one has also been pushed through :) I should 'win' by £50 on the exchange rate movement there, which will cover part of the hotel that won't be refunded because they're being inflexible.
 

OATEK

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IIRC there's a distinction between EU261 - which is still law and hasn't been relaxed - and countries which have unilaterally 'relaxed' the requirements of EU261, to allow a voucher. For example I think Germany is one of those countries.

OATEK's reply states that the company is both headquartered and operates within countries of the European jurisdiction that have enacted relevant laws supporting a voucher scheme ... so they basically seem to be suggesting they are operating in one of those countries that is outside of the normal EU261 law :(
Greece.
 

OATEK

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In which case any relevant EU regulations still apply, the EU has not approved any deviation from them.
Well today I got this:

Please note that the law name is N 59 / 2020 and attached you can find the official document.

Unfortunately, there is only this Greek version, the official language of the country.


N59(1)2020.JPG
 

OATEK

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Well today I got this:

Please note that the law name is N 59 / 2020 and attached you can find the official document.

Unfortunately, there is only this Greek version, the official language of the country.


View attachment 219474
More detail here:
 

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Do you know if there's any EU regulation like EU261/2004 though that covers things like cruises etc.?

EU261/2004 only covers air travel (EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN), but if there is a similar that covers cruises etc. then no matter what 'local laws' they put in place, they still can't ignore their legal obligations under EU law.


If however there is no applicable EU regulation..... then it's moot point! I would suggest though that Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010 covers it.
 

OATEK

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Do you know if there's any EU regulation like EU261/2004 though that covers things like cruises etc.?

EU261/2004 only covers air travel (EUR-Lex - 32004R0261 - EN), but if there is a similar that covers cruises etc. then no matter what 'local laws' they put in place, they still can't ignore their legal obligations under EU law.


If however there is no applicable EU regulation..... then it's moot point! I would suggest though that Regulation (EU) No 1177/2010 covers it.
The EU does cover cancelled cruises/ferry trips, but says you need to claim through the relevant Greek authorities, and give to a link to follow. Guess what it says - actually its all Greek to me. But you get the gist....
 

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The EU does cover cancelled cruises/ferry trips, but says you need to claim through the relevant Greek authorities, and give to a link to follow. Guess what it says - actually its all Greek to me. But you get the gist....
Indeed, in any case though you could raise a small claims case via the court system but suspect it would be difficult to arrange given English isn't the language of the court etc.

I assume charge back is not available here as your CC provider is saying no because they're offering a voucher and that's deemed to be 'acceptable'?

The main thing to take out of it though, is several countries have 'tried it on' by 'legislating' vouchers are OK to be provided instead of a cash refund, but the EU has been very clear that the position is in clear breach of the regulations and a full refund must be provided if the service is cancelled.
 

blackcat20

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Realised this morning we havent cancelled our airport parking. I always book through RACV so need to try to sort that out. Even if we dont get a refund/credit, just need the company to know not to expect us.
 

MEL_Traveller

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If you're in the EU, the law applies - no ifs or buts. Regardless of what 'local' jurisdictions try to suggest. It's for reasons like this that the UK wanted to leave the EU, to enable them to have more control and write their own laws.
There's the technical, and the practical. If the laws technically apply, who are you going to complain to? The local regulator? They will hold their government's position. So you're going to have to take them to court. That's unlikely to be a reasonable option for many people. If the French government says Air France can give a voucher rather than a refund, it could be a tough slog to get your rights against AF atm.
 

blackcat20

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Posted in the wrong thread...

Airport parking sorted in 1 minute and 59 seconds, full refund to credit card.

Trip It kindly reminded me this morning that our trip "starts soon' 😭
 

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There's the technical, and the practical. If the laws technically apply, who are you going to complain to? The local regulator? They will hold their government's position. So you're going to have to take them to court. That's unlikely to be a reasonable option for many people. If the French government says Air France can give a voucher rather than a refund, it could be a tough slog to get your rights against AF atm.
This is where credit card chargeback will work, because legally a refund has to be provided within X days (7 days for example on EU261/2004) and regardless of a voucher being offered the card provider will process it; I've experienced this twice already with flights where I was waiting on a refund and one wasn't forthcoming as they kept sending vouchers.
 

MEL_Traveller

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This is where credit card chargeback will work, because legally a refund has to be provided within X days (7 days for example on EU261/2004) and regardless of a voucher being offered the card provider will process it; I've experienced this twice already with flights where I was waiting on a refund and one wasn't forthcoming as they kept sending vouchers.
A chargeback would be an option, and worth a try. But there seem to be terms and conditions in the CC merchant agreements that CC policies can't overrule government laws. If a government is sanctioning a voucher, or the processing of refunds at a later date, the airline could likely reject the chargeback on those grounds.
 

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Interestingly over here (UK), advice now is if your TI provider denies your claim saying you've been offered a voucher so that's acceptable then the next steps you should take are to take the TI provider to the Insurance Ombudsman. I assume similar may be an option in Australia?
 

Pushka

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Interestingly over here (UK), advice now is if your TI provider denies your claim saying you've been offered a voucher so that's acceptable then the next steps you should take are to take the TI provider to the Insurance Ombudsman. I assume similar may be an option in Australia?
I've been lodging insurance claims this week for our July Europe cancellations. Given that vouchers have an expiry date, that likely involve overseas travel, that insurance companies will never cover Covid again, and goodness knows if there will ever be a vaccine, there may be a second - third - fourth wave (hope not but that can't be declined right now) there is no way that Insurance companies can compel anyone to accept a voucher for next year instead of a refund.

As an aside, our Insurer Insureandgo, makes us lodge each type of claim separately (flight, flight, hotel, cruise) and each time will deduct their gap fee. Twice now, I've been contacted asking for the return flight details for both the cruise and the hotel. If and I know they will, they deduct their fee each time, then that will be a complaint I will follow up on later once the payments have arrived.
 

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