Has tonight's EK414 arrival a dispensation to break SYD curfew?

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What an agressive article in the SMH. Comment is being sought as to why dispensation was given? The whole article is predicated as if Emirates was doing something extremely bad. Lets get real, we have a plane with 500 people that lands 12 minutes after 11pm, with dispensation. Is it really worth diverting to Melbourne, and causing all that inconvenience, and having to find 300+ hotel rooms at midnight. At least common sense prevailed.
 
What an agressive article in the SMH. Comment is being sought as to why dispensation was given? The whole article is predicated as if Emirates was doing something extremely bad. Lets get real, we have a plane with 500 people that lands 12 minutes after 11pm, with dispensation. Is it really worth diverting to Melbourne, and causing all that inconvenience, and having to find 300+ hotel rooms at midnight. At least common sense prevailed.
I agree that 12-13 minutes is nothing, however, this flight left DXB 90 minutes late. There should be heavy emphasis placed on this IMHO. I've watched a few episodes of Ultimate Airport Dubai, and from what i've seen, EK are very very aware of the potential to not make it into SYD by 2300. I would have thought that this kind of delay would have ensured a cxl or a divert. 500 pax or not, rules are rules. If it had departed on time, different story.
 
What a joke of an article - why not direct the 'outrage' towards the stupid curfew and its rules?

And if they weren't given dispensation, it would not only be the passengers on that flight and the cost. The 6am departure the next morning would have been delayed by at least 2-3 hours, so disrupting another couple of hundred passengers.
 
What an agressive article in the SMH. Comment is being sought as to why dispensation was given? The whole article is predicated as if Emirates was doing something extremely bad. Lets get real, we have a plane with 500 people that lands 12 minutes after 11pm, with dispensation. Is it really worth diverting to Melbourne, and causing all that inconvenience, and having to find 300+ hotel rooms at midnight. At least common sense prevailed.

I agree that 12-13 minutes is nothing, however, this flight left DXB 90 minutes late. There should be heavy emphasis placed on this IMHO. I've watched a few episodes of Ultimate Airport Dubai, and from what i've seen, EK are very very aware of the potential to not make it into SYD by 2300. I would have thought that this kind of delay would have ensured a cxl or a divert. 500 pax or not, rules are rules. If it had departed on time, different story.

What a joke of an article - why not direct the 'outrage' towards the stupid curfew and its rules?

And if they weren't given dispensation, it would not only be the passengers on that flight and the cost. The 6am departure the next morning would have been delayed by at least 2-3 hours, so disrupting another couple of hundred passengers.

I think we have to understand that the curfew (and I don't agree with it - and there are many threads on AFF that will go on about this discussion) was introduced supposedly to appease the residents who lived under flight paths and hitherto complained about the airport noise.

Is delaying 500 passengers something they worry about in order to fulfil that want for less noise? Highly unlikely. (It may be arguable that airlines seeking dispensation are hardly having the affected communities' best interests in mind either).

This curfew has caused cancellations and diversions (including say half-flown flights which have been diverted back to original point of departure) all due to a very draconian 2300h deadline, in the name of getting approximately 7 hours of relative quiet from the airport. So be it - that is what was desired and that is what was enacted into law.

The dispensation process has been known to be quite stringent and inflexible, which is why many of the applications as such have been questioned by everyone under the sun. Doesn't matter if you're a Qantas flight that ran a few minutes late, an Emirates flight that was hurtling with the accelerator on full bore to make it, or a few Virgin flights who had succumbed to an earlier systems breakdown - everyone will question how you managed to get an exception to the curfew. And I'd bank it'd be the residents in affected areas who will ask the first questions (notwithstanding complain accordingly to their local minister).

With this curfew and the application of the applicable law, there is little room for common sense. It is one (or rather two) fixed deadline(s), and one nebulous but stringent process for making a case to break them.
 
I really wish the airlines would band together and simply cut services to SYD, increase them to BNE/MEL or other capitals. See how long the NSW government takes to buckle with reduced tourists using Sydney as a gateway :p

Alas, it'll never happen, they don't have the balls.
 
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I really wish the airlines would band together and simply cut services to SYD, increase them to BNE/MEL or other capitals. See how long the NSW government takes to buckle with reduced tourists using Sydney as a gateway :p

Alas, it'll never happen, they don't have the balls.

Unfortunately you need to pressure the Federal government as they are the ones that have the curfew in place.
 
From the SMH article (and I'm mindful it may not be entirely accurate):

The criteria for dispensations include how close the timing of the predicted landing is to the 11pm curfew, whether the take-off or landing is over water, whether the cause of the delay was within the operator’s control, the noise level of the aircraft, the number of passengers involved and the severity of the likely hardship.

It seems entirely reasonable that a dispensation was given the (stated) criteria and the EK flight's circumstances. Common sense prevailed; hooray. Should be more of it.

Speaking of Ultimate Airport Dubai, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall as the "get it out on time" mob no doubt went through several stages of apoplexy with the delay .
 
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What an agressive article in the SMH. Comment is being sought as to why dispensation was given? The whole article is predicated as if Emirates was doing something extremely bad. Lets get real, we have a plane with 500 people that lands 12 minutes after 11pm, with dispensation. Is it really worth diverting to Melbourne, and causing all that inconvenience, and having to find 300+ hotel rooms at midnight. At least common sense prevailed.

Some of that may be so, but EK has form when it comes to breaking this curfew, seemingly more so than any other international airline.

If a legislature passes legislation enshrining .05 as a blood alcohol content above which a driver of a road vehicle is fined or has his or her licence taken away for a defined period, does a court suddenly suggest that an individual with a BAC of .052 can have no conviction recorded? I gather not normally, because it is an absolute liability offence.

Presumably any fine is chickenfeed to EK's very wealthy owners.

One salient question is 'why schedule a major international flight with half an hour's window in which to arrive before a legislated nightly curfew?' Is this irresponsible, and pushing one's (in this case EK's) luck? Does it respect the expressed wishes of the legislature if flights continually come close to breaching the agreed and longstanding curfew? Is that good behaviour from a 'corporate citizen?"

There may be the additional airline slackness of an extra half an hour or so built into the schedule (assuming normal winds and so on) but last night's flight benefited from what seemed to be a strong tailwind and yet still failed to 'make curfew.'

Perhaps Emirates needs to accept the curfew and if it can (although there will always be connecting flights at in its case DXB) timetable the flight to arrive at SYD an hour and a half or two hours earlier if at all possible.

Of all major capital city airports, SYD must have by far the most residents affected by airport noise (although the 34L arrival last night would rank as an approach affecting the least number - but an AFFer in Kogarah said in this thread that he could hear it). For proximity to the city centre, SYD airport is rivalled only by ADL of our major mainland capital city State (as distinct from the ACT) airports. Many fairly close residences predated the airport.

Most of these residents vote, and want seven hours of sleeping, whether or not planes have become quieter. I do not know how they cope with the AaE and Toll among other freighters in the small hours.

I had a QF A380 pass overhead at roughly 1100 metres recently during the day in MEL and it was quite noisy. At night, there are fewer other noises (save for barking dogs and mewing tomcats, but some of us rarely experience or hear those) with which to compete.

Because SYD remains a major business centre and arguably Australia's most attractive by far capital city for international visitors (Melbourne may to me be more pleasant in its CBD, but we cannot really compete with the Harbour and Opera House as sights), airlines will not simply suddenly permanently cancel flights and run them instead to MEL or BNE. The yields may be higher into and out of SYD: I do not have access to such data.'

There is no question that EK's morning 0600 departure from SYD is innovative (although rising at 0200 to catch a flight never suits everyone). That flight will not typically breach the curfew (it would rarely take off before 0600) but the late evening arrival is far more at risk of breaching the curfew.
 
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Because SYD remains a major business centre and arguably Australia's most attractive by far capital city for international visitors (Melbourne may to me be more pleasant in its CBD, but we cannot really compete with the Harbour and Opera House as sights), airlines will not simply suddenly permanently cancel flights and run them instead to MEL or BNE.

Royal Brunei cancelled their Sydney flights to service MEL and BNE (although BNE has also been dropped). Although as a point supporting your argument Qatar has recently announced they will serve Sydney after several years of saying they will not do so due to the curfew.
 
Royal Brunei also once flew to PER and DRW if I am not mistaken: now only MEL as you point out. MEL was the most recent Australian city to which this airline began flights.

Korean Air withdrew from MEL in fairly recent times and now only flies to SYD and BNE. QF stopped its MEL - NRT flights (although JQ is about to reintroduce MEL - Japan flights). It's not all 'one way.'
 
Of all major capital city airports, SYD must have by far the most residents affected by airport noise (although the 34L arrival last night would rank as an approach affecting the least number - but an AFFer in Kogarah said in this thread that he could hear it). For proximity to the city centre, SYD airport is rivalled only by ADL of our major mainland capital city State (as distinct from the ACT) airports. Many fairly close residences predated the airport.

There wouldn't be many residents left that "pre-date" the airport considering SYD has been there since the 1920's! Curfew is solely a political hot potato... there are bascially 3 people who account for nearly 90% of the noise complaints, and one lives nowhere near SYD Airport!
 
nlagalle, there may be families into whose ownership a property has been continuous since 1925: true, a minority.

However there would be a much larger percentage who have owned a property since before the curfew was legislated. Some may have had input into the community and political process at that time.

Here is the report re complainants:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NCIS_WEB_REPORT_YSSY_Sept_12.pdf

Often Australians may not explicitly complain about a situation. To complain, one has to locate the website or telephone number. Many may be annoyed but cannot be bothered.
 
Do you have proof of the apathy, or is this another generalisation you are making without any evidence?

There wouldn't be many residents left that "pre-date" the airport considering SYD has been there since the 1920's! Curfew is solely a political hot potato... there are bascially 3 people who account for nearly 90% of the noise complaints, and one lives nowhere near SYD Airport!

They belong in the same category as the Chem trail nut...

Saying that, an article suggested that a high volume of complaints in PER were made by a very very very small minority.

 
nlagalle, there may be families into whose ownership a property has been continuous since 1925: true, a minority.

However there would be a much larger percentage who have owned a property since before the curfew was legislated. Some may have had input into the community and political process at that time.

I'll wager both a small minorities.. time to move ahead and shift the curfew (considering it doesn't affect many freight services)

Here is the report re complainants:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NCIS_WEB_REPORT_YSSY_Sept_12.pdf

Often Australians may not explicitly complain about a situation. To complain, one has to locate the website or telephone number. Many may be annoyed but cannot be bothered.

and here is the article on the serial pest who reports nearly every aircraft!

Angry Kellyville resident Henry Romanowski is the city's expert at airing grievances | News.com.au
 
<snip>
One salient question is 'why schedule a major international flight with half an hour's window in which to arrive before a legislated nightly curfew?' Is this irresponsible, and pushing one's (in this case EK's) luck? Does it respect the expressed wishes of the legislature if flights continually come close to breaching the agreed and longstanding curfew? Is that good behaviour from a 'corporate citizen?"

I wonder what percentage of EK's near-curfew arrivals have successfully arrived within curfew times. I'm guessing 98% or more? 'Coming close to breach' doesn't mean much. Absolutely no problem in landings at 10:50pm. Would be interesting to know which airlines have an actual scheduled arrival between EK414's scheduled arrival of 10:20pm and the curfew of 11:00 pm? Qantas? Virgin? Tiger? Are they worse 'corporate citizens' because their margin for error is worse? :)

<snip>
There may be the additional airline slackness of an extra half an hour or so built into the schedule (assuming normal winds and so on) but last night's flight benefited from what seemed to be a strong tailwind and yet still failed to 'make curfew.'

Perhaps Emirates needs to accept the curfew and if it can (although there will always be connecting flights at in its case DXB) timetable the flight to arrive at SYD an hour and a half or two hours earlier if at all possible.

It left IIRC 90 minutes late because of a pax illness (according to reports) - I think you'll find that's why it 'failed to make curfew'.

I reckon Emirates does 'accept the curfew' - its not as if it runs late into SYD a couple of times a year just to spite everybody.

I understand that the flight is scheduled from DXB when it is so that the departing flight can catch as many connections into DXB as practicable. Now, you might argue that it's made the cut-off too late, but it seems to get through OK the vast majority of the time (what? 2 breaches last year and ... I dunno ... 250 flights in??). Remember last night was because of a sick pax (if reports are correct) - not a scheduling issue (and that's probably why it got the dispensation).

<snip>

Many fairly close residences predated the airport.

Most of these residents vote, and want seven hours of sleeping, whether or not planes have become quieter.

<snip>

The buildings pre-dated the airport - they don't vote. And the people most affected vote for Albo - which isn't as important as it used to be. The vast majority of people would have moved into the flight path at least since the time of very noisy aircraft - did you ever hear a 707 or DC9 fly over-head? And the residents have had a $kazillion spent on roof noise insulation.

Plenty of road noise out there between 11pm and 6am ... we'd all like a nice quiet environment, but if you choose to live near a noise source, which predated your arrival, then you have to bear some of it.

I'm not against the curfew .. but I don't see why the big hoo-ha over EK's performance. An A380 full of pax at the end of a long flight is in a different category from a domestic shuttle from BNE or MEL. If some-one can show a conscious corporate disregard on EK's part for the curfew, then fine 'em to the max. But give 'em a break. Last night they 'played by the rules ' - they had good reasons for a dispensation, and got one.
 
nlagalle, there may be families into whose ownership a property has been continuous since 1925: true, a minority.

However there would be a much larger percentage who have owned a property since before the curfew was legislated. Some may have had input into the community and political process at that time.

Here is the report re complainants:

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NCIS_WEB_REPORT_YSSY_Sept_12.pdf

Often Australians may not explicitly complain about a situation. To complain, one has to locate the website or telephone number. Many may be annoyed but cannot be bothered.

Hilarious.
He lives at Kellyville.

Carlingford is also a big outlier for some reason with 15 "Clients".

Yet suburbs far closer to the airport have almost no complainers.
 
realistically what does it say about Australia if we want to inconvenience several hundred passengers, some of whom would be tourists, because a sick passenger delayed an incoming flight by 14 minutes?

So one or two people on the ground potentially lose 14 minutes sleep, but we show Australia to be inflexible and potentially cause every passenger on board to be diverted to another city, have to go to all the trouble of going to hotels and then miss appointments and work?

Let's just cut the nose off to spite the face. Lose hotel bookings, lose tourist income, lose work hours, force people to take an extra day's leave just for 14 minutes.

Must be a boring suburb to live in around Sydney airport... the whole community in bed asleep by 11pm, never a birthday party that runs late, never a night out at a club or pub, no late shows on television, no New year's eve celebrations (ok the 930pm kiddies fireworks then straight home to bed).
 
Unfortunately you need to pressure the Federal government as they are the ones that have the curfew in place.

Thanks for pointing that out, not sure why the federal government concerns itself in the operation of an airport in just one state. That said, just thinking aloud, don't really need to know. Guess there'd be no pressure that could be applied in this case without reducing all services in protest, which isn't going to happen! ;) Even I know that.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, not sure why the federal government concerns itself in the operation of an airport in just one state. That said, just thinking aloud, don't really need to know. Guess there'd be no pressure that could be applied in this case without reducing all services in protest, which isn't going to happen! ;) Even I know that.

Aviation nationwide is handled by the Federal Government. States have no control over the airports. It's just that the SYD curfew is a hotpot for politicians...
 
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