Greetings / CBR QP Overcrowding

[Gold Member]

Hi AFF folks!

First time poster, long time listener yada yada... Bet you wish you'd been earning SCs every time somone said that eh!? Well I've been on the outer for over 6 months now but finally I've now grown the man tenticles and associated paraphanelia to post something. For those who care, a little something about me first... Keen (avvid) flyer, love the whole flying and peripheral experience. Sadly enough one of my current NY's resolutions was working towards WP status - with a little negotiation, dictatorship and AFF feedback I am sure I can achive this via my current employer. I am a self proclaimed snob/materialistic itinerant that truly loves his creature comforts and am impartial to egotistical status conditioning (lets be honest). In other words, gimme J over WhY anyday or I aint goin (unless work is paying which I tolerate and see purely as SC earners). I fly regularly but not always in a position to meet with fellow members (although interested, I try to minimise every second between origin pickup to airport departure time which includes QP exposure).

Anyways, if you've got this far you're doin well! Unpleasantries aside (balanced perspective hehe), for the past 8 months I've been doing the MEL-CBR route religiously. Two flights every week.... suffice to say the Novotel (CBR) must be on drugs when it rates itself 4 stars and I'm glad I live in Melbourne! However, all this regular doomestic travel has left me in a postion whereby I currently have 835 SC for the current period with another 575 required for WP until reassessment come July 1. Given my apetite for luxury, and the fact that WP is entitled to FCL entry, I am keen to acquire said status! (I will post my future travel details and possible requirements in separate posts).

In the meantime, I want to vent my frustration about the CBR QP. During busy times (weekdays 5-6:30) and especially when other Citiflyer desitnations experience delays or bad weather, the CBR QP is NOT a place you want to be!!! In such circumstances, the bar is 2-3 back and there are absolutely no seats to be had. There's been numerous occasions where I've felt like walking outside into the public domain to wait for my flight! Although I am fortunate to have discounted QP membership, my recent experiences question my allegiance some times. Does anyone else have the same problem?

Let me dismount my high horse for the time being - all of your feedback is welcomed, positive or negative. One day I hope to be able to add some value to this forum like many of you do.... we gotta start somewhere eh.

Regards,
Gold Member

BTW, I would like to offer some feedback to the AFF admins... get a spell checker built-in to your posting interface! I am rarely in a sober state of mind and will always rely upon this feature! (*mini-voms in mouth hehe*)

 

[serfty]

G'day Gold Member , welcome to AFF.

About the spell checker, I am using Mozilla FireFox and it comes with an inbuilt spell checker. :idea:

As I type, I see FireFox has a row of dots underneath it indicating the Spell Checker has a problem with it. I right-click on the word an am presented with a list of options, beginning with:

• Firefox
• firebox
• fire fox
• Add to Dictionary
• Undo
• Cut
• Copy
• Paste
• ...

I then select the word/option I wish for and the offending word is replaced/stored etc.

Only real issue is it's UScentric, wanting to replace words like realise with realize etc.

Good luck with your SC earning; seems like you are on target to reach WP this year.

 

[Craigo]

The Canberra QP has suffered overcrowding at peak times for a number of years now. There was a small extension completed around a year ago but it really didn't solve the problem.

Canberra Airport has recently announced a $250 million terminal expansion. I understand that the expanded terminal will have separate arrival and departure levels and will be a multi-user integrated terminal similar to the new Adelaide terminal. I'm not 100% certain but I would imagine that Qantas will take the opportunity to expand the QP and install a J/WP lounge (which will mainly benefit WPs, as most of the J passengers are pollies with CL access).

However, this means that there will be major disruptions over the next 18 months whilst the new terminal is built around the existing terminal. The traffic arrangements have already changed, with a new entrance and terminal access road being constructed at the moment.

 

[justinbrett]

I think it would be easier to list the QPs that don't suffer overcrowding.

From what I can see there are far too many paid QP members taking up the space, with no investment from QF to upgrading these locations (other than the planned business lounges, which won't solve the problem in smaller lounges that suffer the same problem).

I fly out of DRW a lot and that club is quite small. Normally 4-6 aircraft depart in a two hour window, in a club that would be lucky to seat 100. Unless you're on the first flight out, it's quite tricky to get a seat.

Now most of these flights board before the bar opens at 1pm, so I ask you this: if you can't get a seat, or free alcohol - what is the point of going in the club?

 

[simongr]

Free wireless internet...

 

[justinbrett]

Free wireless internet...

Well in Darwin's case the whole terminal has free wireless internet.

 

[medhead]

From what I can see there are far too many paid QP members taking up the space,

This really gets up my nose. :evil: So much so that its prompted me to sign up for another online forum with another username and password. usually that stops me from signing up for at least a year. But feel privileged that it has only taken 3 weeks this time.

Anyway, SG and WP FF should reconsider their position on this - WDYTYR. (related to DYKWIA, but different) The QC is separate from the FFP. Part of the FFP is that people with status get free QC membership. But that is all, SG and WP are nothing more than members of QC same as the rest of us. There is nothing to in the QC program to say that status means anything for the QC. Your flying is recognised under the FFP, e.g. access to F lounge under ON status.

As a paid QC member I don't get any benefits under the FFP by being a QC member. I don't get to jump the queue for upgrades, I don't get heaps of points to use on free flights or upgrades. I get the benefits that come from being a member the QC program. In exactly the same way as SG and WP who are also members of the QC program.

And loyality doesn't enter this either. When I joined the QC there was no status. I joined for lounge access and priority checkin and I knew that I wasn't going to do heaps of flying. I should have decided to take the cheapest ticket of the day. But instead I showed my loyality by paying for QC and its benefits.

Certainly if overcrowding is a problem then the first answer is to stop giving out freebies to people who are already getting benefits from their flying in areas related to flying.

 

[dajop]

In the meantime, I want to vent my frustration about the CBR QP. During busy times (weekdays 5-6:30) and especially when other Citiflyer desitnations experience delays or bad weather, the CBR QP is NOT a place you want to be!!! In such circumstances, the bar is 2-3 back and there are absolutely no seats to be had. There's been numerous occasions where I've felt like walking outside into the public domain to wait for my flight! Although I am fortunate to have discounted QP membership, my recent experiences question my allegiance some times. Does anyone else have the same problem?

I have been travelling to Canberra often (8-12 times per year) for the last 6 years and it has been a problem ever since I started flying there (probably since Ansett collapsed). During that time the Qantas Club has expanded twice I think, but so have the numbers, so no improvement (mind you at about 11am it is very quiet).

My solution in the last 2 years - wherever possible has been to catch the DJ flight back to MEL at 17:00, and with a small fee now for access to "the lounge" it is much better, plus usually I am in row 1-5 (or last rows of plane if weather is good) on DJ vs row 20-25 on QF (WP with forward aisle). And when I do fly back with QF, I usually have a quick drink in the QP then head out to the tranquility of the terminal (you can hear the decibels noticably drop as you exit the Qantas Club). Obviously DJ is not an option for you if chasing status on QF.

 

[justinbrett]

This really gets up my nose. :evil: So much so that its prompted me to sign up for another online forum with another username and password. usually that stops me from signing up for at least a year. But feel privileged that it has only taken 3 weeks this time.

Anyway, SG and WP FF should reconsider their position on this - WDYTYR. (related to DYKWIA, but different) The QC is separate from the FFP. Part of the FFP is that people with status get free QC membership. But that is all, SG and WP are nothing more than members of QC same as the rest of us. There is nothing to in the QC program to say that status means anything for the QC. Your flying is recognised under the FFP, e.g. access to F lounge under ON status.

As a paid QC member I don't get any benefits under the FFP by being a QC member. I don't get to jump the queue for upgrades, I don't get heaps of points to use on free flights or upgrades. I get the benefits that come from being a member the QC program. In exactly the same way as SG and WP who are also members of the QC program.

And loyality doesn't enter this either. When I joined the QC there was no status. I joined for lounge access and priority checkin and I knew that I wasn't going to do heaps of flying. I should have decided to take the cheapest ticket of the day. But instead I showed my loyality by paying for QC and its benefits.

Certainly if overcrowding is a problem then the first answer is to stop giving out freebies to people who are already getting benefits from their flying in areas related to flying.

Well a few issues here.

My complaint was obviously not against the paid QP members themselves, they paid for entry and should get what they paid for. However, Qantas is happy to take your money and squeeze you into the already crowded club, without investing your money in expanding the club to fit the extra members.

I think it's a pretty bad call that elite FFs deserve entry less than the paid QP members. Many of them paid for QP membership and their loyalty has been recognised with free lounge membership. I'll make the point that there is no option to pay for membership if you are gold & above. If QF used the AA system I'm confident most elite members would pay for lounge access if given the option.

The other point is under Oneworld policy, saphire and emerald members have access to lounges (emerald in first where available). Most oneworld airlines don't even give the option for paid lounge entry.

The last point I'll make is elite members are more important to QF than non-elite QP members. To make gold and above you have to fly a lot, and that means income for Qantas. That's what it's all about.

 

[QuikSmart]

It seems that the smaller lounges really suffer for room. I go through DWN a bit also and find it can be crammed (specially after 10:30pm before the red-eye runs).

CNS also seems to be pretty crowded, although they are upgrading (anyone know if this is complete - been a while since I was there)

ADL is great - always been plenty of room when I've been there. Having said that, I've never been there when an Int flight is scheduled.

If the CBR upgrade is similar to ADL you may be able to experience a bit of room.

 

[Petch]

"
It’s time for freedom,
It’s time for moving, It’s time to begin,
Yes It’s time. It’s time Australia,
It’s time for moving, It’s time for proving,
Yes It’s time
...
Time to move on,
Time to stand up, time to say ‘yes’,
Yes It’s time
"

There is an airline that understands it's time to do something better in Canberra...maybe it's time y'all tried them, they're called Virgin Blue Home

 

[medhead]

Well a few issues here.

My complaint was obviously not against the paid QP members themselves, they paid for entry and should get what they paid for.

I think it's a pretty bad call that elite FFs deserve entry less than the paid QP members.

The last point I'll make is elite members are more important to QF than non-elite QP members. To make gold and above you have to fly a lot, and that means income for Qantas. That's what it's all about.

I think the issue is that some people don't really understand the difference between the FFP and QC. These are different programs!

My point is that SG and WP get free membership of the QC as a reward of spending all the money to get their status. Membership of QC is the reward!! I certainly don't expect "elite" FF to pay for something they have already got free under the FFP. And I'll make the point that "elite" FF get their benefits under the FFP and that is not related to treatment under the QC program

So I'm simply stating that all members of QC are only members. The "elite" status under FFP is not related to QC treatment. Now you didn't say that explicitly, but you did complain about paid QC members being in the QP. That follwos a pattern with others here that would treat QC members as lesser that SG and WP in the QC members own lounge.

My point is that if overcrowding is a problem then the answer is not to attack paid QC members. The answer is to review the basis for inviting members of other programs like the FFP to enjoy the benefits of the QC.

Not that I think they should change who gets free membership. I don;t fly enought to see overcrowding as a problem :mrgreen:

 

[justinbrett]

Now you didn't say that explicitly, but you did complain about paid QC members being in the QP. That follwos a pattern with others here that would treat QC members as lesser that SG and WP in the QC members own lounge.

My point is that if overcrowding is a problem then the answer is not to attack paid QC members. The answer is to review the basis for inviting members of other programs like the FFP to enjoy the benefits of the QC.

Not that I think they should change who gets free membership. I don;t fly enought to see overcrowding as a problem :mrgreen:

If you read my posts I think I'm quite clear I don't blame the members themselves for being there. I think that if Qantas is going to charge people like you money to enter the lounges, then they should put that money into expanding it. Clearly, the clubs are not keeping up with the number of people gaining entry.

I think you'd find if given the choice Qantas would either stop paid membership to the Qantas club or raise the price significantly (to reduce membership), rather than exclude elite FFs from the club.

 

[simongr]

For clarity I think when people "attack" paid memberships they are I think attacking the business model that QF have established. They are selling a premium product (lounge access) at a mass market price and delivering a mass market product - a bit like offering to sell bottles of Grange for $150 but then delivering a glass of Grange to the 5 people around you.

The question is whether anyone knows the purpose of the QP. There are I think two key reasons the QP exists - to make money through being self funded or through attracting customers to fly QF simply because it exists - or does it exist as a requirement of the rules of OW.

I currently have 3 QP memberships - I am a paid QP member (suspended), QF SG (compliemtary membership) and AA EXP (de facto membership) - I am not sure which type of customer I am to QF in terms of the reason the QP exists.

In terms of the options that QF has to improve the facilities at the QPs there are three options:

1 - Reduce the number of paid QP memberships through increasing the price of membership - not only might this have a direct revenue effect but might drive more people to DJ or others.

2 - Restrict access - not really an option without renegotiating the OW deal - even to build an AA style model where other program's members can get in but not QF's own.

3 - Improve facilities - we have yet to see what happens in this regard - in the SYD Int'l terminal they are refurbing the QP - not sure if they will run two QP's after the refurb using the old underground QP/F lounge but they have an opportunity there.

Just in relation to the The LOunge - one of the key differentiators of the lounge is the fewness of people therein. One question though - has the ratio of pax to space reduced as DJ grows? Are the Lounges as empty as they used to be and do DJ intend to expand them or will The Lounge just be a QP in a few years time?

 

[medhead]

If you read my posts I think I'm quite clear I don't blame the members themselves for being there.

I think you'd find if given the choice Qantas would either stop paid membership to the Qantas club or raise the price significantly (to reduce membership), rather than exclude elite FFs from the club.

Ok maybe I agree one expanding the lounges.

But what your saying as quoted is a direct contradiction. You would address you perceived overcrowd problem by reducing my benefits

That's putting the cart before the horse. The benefit that so called elite FF get is membership of the club. That IS what elites get! They are not elites under the QC program pure and simple.

If it wasn't for paid QC members there would be no free QC membership for your so called elites. Bascially your suggested that I bend over, because your not happy with the FREE thing your getting as a BONUS for your membership of the FFP.

I'm saying that the first step if overcrowding is a problem is that the EXISTING program reconsider the basis for which members of the FFP are INVITED to experience the QC.

Certainly that'd be my preference (not that I think it should be changed) because when I do fly with my family in the front of the plane I don't like to mix with the sort of people who can only get access off the back of a corporate travel budget, no doubt sourced from my shareholder funds.

 

[simongr]

If it wasn't for paid QC members there would be no free QC membership for your so called elites. Bascially your suggested that I bend over, because your not happy with the FREE thing your getting as a BONUS for your membership of the FFP.

That is not true - QF are required to provide elite membership under the OW program.

Secondly the bonus is recognition of the money paid for flights - quite often quite expensive flights. Although no-one handed over folding green for the membership it was paid for - factored into the price of tickets is the cost of providing lounge access. Some people join the program not for the miles for free flights but for the other benefits. Historically I have enjoyed the benefits of status more than the miles earned.

 

[medhead]

In terms of the options that QF has to improve the facilities at the QPs there are three options:

1 - Reduce the number of paid QP memberships through increasing the price of membership - not only might this have a direct revenue effect but might drive more people to DJ or others.

2 - Restrict access - not really an option without renegotiating the OW deal - even to build an AA style model where other program's members can get in but not QF's own.

3 - Improve facilities - we have yet to see what happens in this regard - an opportunity there.

You forget the obvious to restrict invitations to QC for statused members of the FFP. So no passes for silver members. and no free membership to gold. This doesn't impact on OW as those members can still have access to the QC without actaully being a member.

As for asking paid members to bend over and take one. Well QC pre-existed status. And that is the same as those people who moved into apartments in great live music areas of cities like the valley in Brisbane or east end in Adelaide because they love the atmosphere and then after a little while complain about the loud music and have the whole basis of the atmosphere shut down.

SG and WP are given free membership of QC to recoginise their status. If you don't like it don't use it. i.e. "Go Away"

 

[Dave Noble]

That is not true - QF are required to provide elite membership under the OW program.
.

No, they are required to provide benefits to OW status members ( what is elite about having sat in a plane I still wonder ). They do not have to have a ruby,sapphire and Emerald membership themselves; e.g. BA do not offer a ruby membership in their scheme

Even if having status levels, there is no requirement for QF to have to provide OW benefits to their own members ; c.f. AA and domestic lounge access

Dave

 

[justinbrett]

Plenty of airlines run their lounges not open to paying members, and fund them directly.

Generally, they are much smaller than the Qantas Clubs and much more exclusive, which IMO is a much better product.

Many of the BA clubs are quite small, but I've always been able to get a seat, the self service bar is 24H and the food is much better than QP (generally, some places better than others).

I don't think I'm lucky to be allowed free QP membership, I'd get the same if I was in any other OW member's club. If QF ever tried the AA system, I think you find many people would join the AA or BA FFs, if they didn't go off to Virgin to shun them completely.

 

[medhead]

That is not true - QF are required to provide elite membership under the OW program.

Secondly the bonus is recognition of the money paid for flights -

No, OW says they get access to certain lounges it doesn't require giving membership of the QC.

Yes, the bonus is recognition of flying. But the bonus is a free membership.

It is not a better class of membership, it is not elite status. You are only a member, your elite status only counts under the FFP. FF also get onther benefits like priority upgrades, points, SC, seating preference, etc. My QC does not give me any elite status under the FFP, why should it. In the FFP I'm a NB. And a WP and (W)SG is only a QC member in the QC program.

WDYTYA