Getting Both AZ & Pfizer

Lynda2475

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Any such use of it as a booster is “off-label” until and if it gets approval

IF being the key word, the media release confirmed tga approval for Moderna is already in the works, no mention of any tga consideration of recommending AZ and previously announced by feds that AZ is being retired. Az has never been planned to be a key part of any booster program.

This forum skews older, but majority of Australians had an mrna vaccine for their first two doses and an even larger majority will get one as a their booster.
 
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Lynda2475

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ATAGI have stated that AZ can be used as a booster:

Now i got flammed for mentioning what is and can be used overseas, because can doesnt equal recommended. So for consistency, just because you can get AZ doesnt mean its recommended, far from it based on your reference.
 
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mviy

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Moderna supplies are more constrained this year than they will be next year. Furthermore it’ll take some months for the number of boosters needed to scale up as the daily vaccination rates were lower earlier in the rollout.

The mass vax centres were only ever intended as a temporary measure. I expect most or all of them will be closed within the next 3-6 months in NSW and VIC. Pharmacies, GP clinics, workplace vaccinations and perhaps some popup clinics should be able to handle the booster rollout.

If 5-11 year-olds are added to the rollout a lot of them could get vaccinated at school or perhaps at the GP or pharmac_ their family goes to.
 
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Princess Fiona

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ATAGI have stated that AZ can be used as a booster:
"Comirnaty (Pfizer) is recommended as a single booster dose, irrespective of the primary COVID-19
vaccine used. Although not preferred, Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca) can also be used as a booster dose
in the following situations:
• For individuals who have received Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca) for their first two doses if
there are no contraindications or precautions for use.
• If a significant adverse reaction has occurred after a previous mRNA vaccine dose
which contraindicates further doses of mRNA vaccine (e.g., anaphylaxis, myocarditis).
ATAGI will make a recommendation on the potential use of Spikevax as a booster in due course"
Yes aware of that but it still requires TGA approval.
 

drron

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Another interesting article on real world results.this time from Scotland. They compared protection from death by the delta variant between Pfizer and AZ.Very intesting results. Overall no significant differences but Pfizer was a little better in the 40 -59 year old subjects but AZ slightly better in the over 60s.
Among those who were 40 to 59 years of age, vaccine effectiveness against death from Covid-19 was 88% (95% confidence interval [CI], 76 to 93) for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and 95% (95% CI, 79 to 99) for BNT162b2; vaccine effectiveness was 90% (95% CI, 84 to 94) and 87% (95% CI, 77 to 93), respectively, among those 60 years of age or older.

No one 39 or younger died if vaccinated.When all age groups are taken together a virtual dead heat.91% effectiveness for AZ,90% for Pfizer.

So it appears Australia actually got it right recommending AZ for over 60s and Pfizer for under 60s.Those over 60 who insisted on waiting for Pfizer were barking up the wrong tree.
 

OZDUCK

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An interesting, to me anyway, item on the ABC News site this morning about the rollout of the booster shot in Israel. Of course the use of AZ does not enter into the conversation with regards to Israel. As usual the evidence in favour of vaccination is really unarguable by a reasonable person.
"Almost 95 to 99 per cent of the cases that we saw in the hospital here were those patients who were unvaccinated, or those patients who had not received the booster shot," said Dr David Katz, the director of the COVID-19 unit at Shaare Zedek Medical Centre, a major private hospital in Jerusalem.

 

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An interesting, to me anyway, item on the ABC News site this morning about the rollout of the booster shot in Israel. Of course the use of AZ does not enter into the conversation with regards to Israel. As usual the evidence in favour of vaccination is really unarguable by a reasonable person.
"Almost 95 to 99 per cent of the cases that we saw in the hospital here were those patients who were unvaccinated, or those patients who had not received the booster shot," said Dr David Katz, the director of the COVID-19 unit at Shaare Zedek Medical Centre, a major private hospital in Jerusalem.

It's excellent that they are so advanced so we can learn from them before we escalate cases too much.
 

Lynda2475

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but Pfizer was a little better in the 40 -59 year old subjects

So yet more evidence that Pfizer is absolutely the best choice for my age cohort both more effective and safer (given the deaths and hospitlisatons from AZ in this age group, especially in women). And TGA have got it right recommending MRNA for boosters, Pfizer approved and Moderna well on its way to approval.

Just back from lunch with the Parentals who are due for thier booster in December if they wait 6 months. Being imuno compromised my Mum could get boosted now, but her GP has reocmmended she wait til December to get PFizer or Moderna rather than a 3rd dose of AZ now, which is what we have decided she will do.
 

drron

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So yet more evidence that Pfizer is absolutely the best choice for my age cohort both more effective and safer (given the deaths and hospitlisatons from AZ in this age group, especially in women). And TGA have got it right recommending MRNA for boosters, Pfizer approved and Moderna well on its way to approval.

Just back from lunch with the Parentals who are due for thier booster in December if they wait 6 months. Being imuno compromised my Mum could get boosted now, but her GP has reocmmended she wait til December to get PFizer or Moderna rather than a 3rd dose of AZ now, which is what we have decided she will do.
Though maybe Moderna would be better. 😁
But I should point out the differences between AZ and Pfizer in that study are not significant with wide confidence intervals and so my reponse really shouldn't be but AZ is best for my age cohort.
 

Lynda2475

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Though maybe Moderna would be better

I open to Moderna (always have been) as it is MRNA and also reocmmended for my age cohort. But unless they allow Moderna to be distributed via mass vax centre or my GP travel vaccination centre then its not an option for me, as it is not conveninient to go to a phamracy and I want my vax adminstered by a nurse or doctor not a chemist.

I cant see workplace vaccination programs being up and running for boosters in January when mine is due, as if they combine with flu vax that wont be until April.
 

drron

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But what if the mass vaccination centres are closed down.They were good for those in larger centres so as to kick start the vaccination program but really not needed basically for booster doses.They are already laying off some staff. Governments will be looking to begin saving money.Mas vaccination centres should be high on the list.
 

Lynda2475

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But what if the mass vaccination centres are closed down

Then no choice but to get Pfizer via the GP travel vaccination centre that i use when i get travel boosters. Im not about to get a jab at a chemist, when there is an option to get one from a nurse whose entire job is to give vacicnations all day so is more skilled at doing so.

But i do not believe 100% of vaccination clinics will close before I need my booster. There is a business case for keeping Olympic Park (not the Qdos one) and posisbly the CBD open for boosters.

In NSW the majority of boosters will be delivered between Jan and Mar, as the majority of the populaton received their second dose in July through Sept. So case to close Olympic Park only really stacks up from April.
 
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mviy

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The boosters are expected to just be one dose, not two doses 3 or 4 weeks apart which instantly means half the number of doses that are needed for primary vaccinations. With the significant increase in supply and knowledge learnt from the primary rollout the vaccines should be able to be distributed in a way that means mass vaccinations are no longer needed or have a significantly reduced role.
 
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Then no choice but to get Pfizer via the GP travel vaccination centre that i use when i get travel boosters. Im not about to get a jab at a chemist, when there is an option to get one from a nurse whose entire job is to give vacicnations all day so is more skilled at doing so.

That may be a choice you make, but the assumption that a nurse is the better choice than someone else trained to give an IM shot is a flawed assumption and not grounded in any medical reality. Delivering an IM vaccination does not have the same degree of difficulty or give rise to the same risks or potential for complications as drawing blood or starting an IV line (where there may be an argument for leaving that to those with a higher level of qualification and experience).

Globally, pharmacists are an important part of vaccination programmes and part of effective and efficient immunisation programme delivery. They are very often more accessible to communities than are doctors and nurses, and trusted by the communities they serve. Dismissing pharmacists as effective, efficient, safe and reliable sources of vaccination is without foundation.

Anyone who reads that and is hesitant to receive a vaccination from a healthcare professional such as a pharmacist trained to give an IM shot need not be. Delivering an IM immunisation is a very straightforward procedure and it is not the sole province of nurses or doctors. Any healthcare professional, pharmacists included, who has been trained to give an IM shot can give one as safely, reliably and effectively as any other healthcare professional.
 

Lynda2475

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Yes it is my choice based on personal risk assessment because if I were to have any reaction at the travel vaccination clinic there are both fully trained nurses and doctors on premises to admister care who have far more medical training than any pharmacist.

I didnt say it was unsafe to get a vaccine at a pharmac_, but it is never an option I would personally consider. Even workplace programs send a qualified nurse to give flu jabs.

For me pharmacies are for filing prescriptions (and buying shampoo and sunscreen if they have good prices). If i want medical care or advice I will see someone with more training.
 

drron

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pharmac_ is a 4 year University course followed by an Intern year for full registration.
They are well trained health professionals.

And the GPs who are maligned on here by some do 5 years at University and a compulsory Intern year.
The training program for a city GP is then another 3 years and for rural and remote medicine 4 years.

I am in awe of the skills of some remote GPs.I used to visit 5 centres in the North Burnett and saw some of their skills such as the 77 year old GP who would not retire as the town could not attract a new doctor.The day before my visit he had attended to the 2 drivers involved in a head on out of town in the 100KPH zone.He did burr holes on one and a large pleural drain in the other to drain a large haemothorax whilst awaiting the helicopters to take the patients to larger hospitals.He saved 2 lives with 1 nurse to assist. I know I could not have done his job.
 
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Yes it is my choice based on personal risk assessment because if I were to have any reaction at the travel vaccination clinic there are both fully trained nurses and doctors on premises to admister care who have far more medical training than any pharmacist.

Fully trained doctors and nurses are all very well, but you'd better make sure that the medical professionals at the travel vaccination clinic or indeed any other healthcare facility you attend to receive a vaccination are equipped to deliver emergency airway management in case of "a reaction".

I didnt say it was unsafe to get a vaccine at a pharmac_, but it is never an option I would personally consider. Even workplace programs send a qualified nurse to give flu jabs.

You're quite right. You did not use direct language stating it was unsafe. However language you used readily permitted the inference to be drawn that you think pharmacists trained to deliver IM vaccinations are somehow less qualified than anyone else with the same training to deliver IM vaccinations. Perhaps be more careful in the future with your choice of words, if you don't want readers to think you're saying something that you subsequently assert you did not.

Oddly none of the nurses that ever turned up at my workplace to deliver flu vaccines seemed to be equipped with much more than a first aid kit (which may or may not have contained an adrenaline auto-injector). I don't remember that they turned up with intubation equipment, and I don't remember them professing their qualifications or training to deliver emergency airway management in the event of "a reaction" to a vaccine. It seems most peculiar that with all that better experience and training they'd be in no better position than a pharmacist in the same situation to manage "a reaction" to a vaccine.

For me pharmacies are for filing prescriptions (and buying shampoo and sunscreen if they have good prices). If i want medical care or advice I will see someone with more training.

You're very fortunate indeed that you have complete and universal access to the healthcare professionals you wish to see. Not everyone, including in Australia, is so fortunate. Pharmacists play an important role in delivering healthcare at a community level, in Australia and elsewhere.
 

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