General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

TheRealTMA

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About time someone did something. Just what is the point of the federal government and departments and the RAT promotion advertising?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01...yBERSPXl6vBkmV6vEPSZkJDSuqE3KcPAFbjfkuovICscY
 

drron

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Why should the Federal Government be supplying RATs. health is a State resposibility. Some state Governments are providing RATs for those with symptoms or close contacts just as it should be.
The Commonwealth is responsible for the supply of tests to Aged Care facilities. I know here in Tasmania they have been distributed though some facilities are not using him rather locking down and banning visitors and admissions from hospitals even with negative PCRs.

And if the RATs are needed for travel I don't see why a government needs to be involved in their supply.
 

N860CR

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Why should the Federal Government be supplying RATs. health is a State resposibility. Some state Governments are providing RATs for those with symptoms or close contacts just as it should be.
The Commonwealth is responsible for the supply of tests to Aged Care facilities. I know here in Tasmania they have been distributed though some facilities are not using him rather locking down and banning visitors and admissions from hospitals even with negative PCRs.

And if the RATs are needed for travel I don't see why a government needs to be involved in their supply.

I’m also not fully getting this bizarre position the public has that Canberra (and Morrison as it’s representative) are somehow responsible for handing out an unlimited supply of medical tests to the general public. And I say that as a member of the other party…

I’ve had to do plenty of medical tests in my time. Some Medicare covers, some it doesn’t, some we split down the middle (usually leaning more in their favour). I can’t say I’ve ever expected to be able to simply put my hand up and say “give me this medical test for free government! Not because my doctor has referred me, but because I think I need it!”.

Caving and handing them out to welfare recipients only was a poor decision in my view, and is quite rightly raising the eyebrows of those who have worked their backsides off over the last 2 years to keep the country moving.
 

Pushka

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And it has been mentioned by at least two CHOs that none of the ICU patients in Australia were tripple dosed.
They are certainly stressing this triple dose in SA today but not referencing ICU data. It gets complicated when people may have been triple dosed but have severe underlying issues as well and still end up in ICU.
 

tgh

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The elephant itr here is that science is saying a booster is quite short acting.
Those of us who are basking in the sunshine with our triple shot insurance policy should also be hoping that the current wave abates quickly.
Another shot at 3>6 months may be helpful but current vaccines are likely bound by the law of diminishing returns.
No sign at all of the fat lady in this adventure of a lifetime…...
 
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Lynda2475

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They are certainly stressing this triple dose in SA today but not referencing ICU data. It gets complicated when people may have been triple dosed but have severe underlying issues as well and still end up in ICU.

Unfortunately today NSW reported deaths in boosted people, I expect those people had underlying conditions but Dr Chant wont state that due to privacy, however I think they can safely divulge whether deaths were from covid only (no underlying conditions) vs with covid (serious comorbidities) without breaching privacy.

From ABC blog today:

Of those that died, 12 were women and 20 were men

  • Three people were in their 40s, three in their 60s, eight in their 70s, 11 in their 80s and seven in their 90s
  • 23 of those who died had had two doses of a vaccine, one had one dose, eight were unvaccinated, and five had had a booster
Dr Chant recognised requests for more information on deaths to better understand underlying health issues, however she said she would not be changing her daily released of information due to confidentiality issues. Instead, she said, she would regularly provide "a little bit more information on the types of conditions people have"
 

jrfsp

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The elephant itr here is that science is saying a booster is quite short acting.
Those of us who are basking in the sunshine with our triple shot insurance policy should also be hoping that the current wave abates quickly.
Another shot at 3>6 months may be helpful but current vaccines are likely bound by the law of diminishing returns.
No sign at all of the fat lady in this adventure of a lifetime…...

Agree, whats becoming increasing apparent is that we cannot vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. There is already talk of a 4th dose. Governments all over the world made promises that getting vaccinated would solve everything. The "lets get back to the things we love" advert is a good example.

We've had two years of the pandemic and yet i have not seen any specific CV19 messaging targeting general health / fitness / diet etc, yet we are still bombarded with the same junk food adverts. We know obesity / fitness / general health is a factor in hospitalisations.
 

Lynda2475

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4th booster needs to be new vaccine formula not same old. We tweak flu boosters based on what is circulating, the same should be happening for covid.
 

N860CR

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Agree, whats becoming increasing apparent is that we cannot vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. There is already talk of a 4th dose. Governments all over the world made promises that getting vaccinated would solve everything. The "lets get back to the things we love" advert is a good example.

We've had two years of the pandemic and yet i have not seen any specific CV19 messaging targeting general health / fitness / diet etc, yet we are still bombarded with the same junk food adverts. We know obesity / fitness / general health is a factor in hospitalisations.

To some extent, Australia has vaccinated its way out of the pandemic. We have 90%+ fully vaccinated. The currently cases that result in death are largely either in unvaccinated or people who may well have died from any other respiratory virus. The number of people who are dying purely of covid alone is very close to zero. Zero is something we’ll never achieve.

Australia needs to accept that people are going to die of/with covid. The same way we accept every other cause of death.

I just don’t see us getting there for a while.
 

Lynda2475

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The currently cases that result in death are largely either in unvaccinated or people who may well have died from any other respiratory virus. The number of people who are dying purely of covid alone is very close to zero. Zero is something we’ll never achieve.

Don't forget those who died with the virus but for completely unrelated reasons like a drug overdose or injuries from an accident. And those with non respiratory underlying conditions who also died with the virus (i.e. cancer).
 

Must...Fly!

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It seems a mandatory third dose will be happening. Starting to get concerning really how we seen to have few if any other options.

I agree that a focus on a healthy lifestyle and better choices in life would be a great idea
 

mviy

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It seems a mandatory third dose will be happening.
If that happens soon I'll either have to try and get my third dose I had in the UK (only have handwritten details of my batch number etc.) added to the AIR or have a 4th dose soon after my 3rd, I guess. Though hopefully if the third dose is mandatory they'll say you have to have had it or have had your 2nd dose less than say 5 months ago to remain considered fully vaccinated.
 

Lynda2475

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It seems a mandatory third dose will be happening

Already mandatory in several states (NSW, WA, Vic) for workers in high risk occupations . Its not surprising it will extneded to wider populations as already the case in some overseas jurisdictions.

What I'm more interested is in the tolerance they add, what is cut-off form 2nd dose (given the eligibility changes form 6 to 5 to 4 and is now 3 months) for 3rd dose.

But since I've had my 3rd dose already, more so how long before a 4th dose is required? One would hope that any 4th dose offered is a tweaked formula for newer variants (i.e. offers improved omicron protection and whatever the next variant is)

I agree that a focus on a healthy lifestyle and better choices in life would be a great idea

There is evidence of morbid obesity being a contributor to the need for hospitalization if you actually get covid, but being obese in and of itself doesn't increase your chances of acquiring covid, nor does diet or fitness.

Smoking would be a higher risk factor to lung heath than carrying a few extra kilos.

A friend who works in Covid ICU at Concord Hospital says she isn't seeing obese patients over represented in ICU but that most patients have other pre-existing conditions contributing to their poor outcomes (or are unvaccinated).
 

drron

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As I have posted recently neither the WHO or SAGE in the UK say a 4th dose is not needed for the general population so only for high risk patients.
The question is now why are we keeping going with more doses in the age of Omicron.
1642566520617.png

1642566549361.png

Note the confidence intervals for the red line.

1642566609295.png

Even with a booster the effect on transmission is negligible.
 
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Of those that died, 12 were women and 20 were men
Yes But 32 out of 36 were double vaxxed which is the point that the CHO failed to make (Or did not want to make)
Again its a pandemic of the vaccinated. Or are we saying 2 jabs is not considered vaccinated. I dont think the CHO or the Govt is brave enough to make that argument - yet.
 
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@drron, note the confidence interval - the vertical line in Fig 2 . The actuality could be anywhere along that line

Especially when the mRNA vax is not coded for Omicron

Can we all say all together now "Pandemic of the Vaccinated"
 

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