General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

Quickstatus

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Merck said it has no intention of starting clinical trials for IV

This is a pity.
The problem with published scientific research is that negative results are nowhere near published at the same rate as positive results.
I contend that negative results are just as important, sometimes more so - especially for contentious matters.

Currently lots of publications for "Drug X show promise against Disease Y" But rarely "Drug X ineffectlve against disease Y"

Most reviews about Ivermectin conclude by saying more research into Ivermectin efficacy against Covid19 is required.
By not doing that research Merck is basically leaving the question unanswered and what do you think that does to sales of Ivermectin?.
 
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N860CR

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Rather than say basically all vaccinated will recover, it is better to say the mortality rate for 2Jab vax is very low

View attachment 261940 View attachment 261941

Correct, yes, but in people who are otherwise healthy and not knocking on the pearly gates, it's close enough to "basically everyone".

There's increasing noise about the "double vaccinated" people who are dying. It's a vaccine, not an invincibility potion. 80-90 year olds (particularly those in palliative care) are still going to die (as they would from any range of viruses). That's the message that needs to be getting through.
 

N860CR

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The problem with that is that it amplifies the antivax message that people die even if vaxxed.

I don’t disagree. It’s a very odd situation that we’re in at the moment but I do feel it’s being pushed by constant reporting of case numbers, positivity rate, exposure sites, which state is better than which… I don’t have the answer.
 

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I don’t have the answer
Thats an easy one to answer.
Its nothing new. Vaccinations will always have its detractors. It is just a feature of human nature. Even in orthodox medical treatment, not every one will accept medical recommendations - and that is fine. Reasons given for not following medical advice can be logical or illogical and even crazy. However individual sovereignty is paramount and should be respected - after all isn't that the basis for the social licence of medicine?

Not everyone can be saved....
 

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There's increasing noise about the "double vaccinated" people who are dying. It's a vaccine, not an invincibility potion. 80-90 year olds (particularly those in palliative care) are still going to die (as they would from any range of viruses). That's the message that needs to be getting through.

The problem with that is that it amplifies the antivax message that people die even if vaxxed.

Increasingly I’m saying on SA Health Facebook page that when anti vaxxers post such bs that I point out that the Covid vax doesn’t cure cancer, heart disease, old age and stupidity. They generally disappear after that and find other stupid stuff.
 

jakeseven7

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Increasingly I’m saying on SA Health Facebook page that when anti vaxxers post such bs that I point out that the Covid vax doesn’t cure cancer, heart disease, old age and stupidity. They generally disappear after that and find other stupid stuff.

Though if it did reverse the first signs of aging and plump lips we wouldn’t have the massive issue we do in the Byron Bay region, anti vax capital of Australia!
 

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Princess Fiona

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Though if it did reverse the first signs of aging and plump lips we wouldn’t have the massive issue we do in the Byron Bay region, anti vax capital of Australia!
It actually can help with the plump lips !!!
Pfizer Causing Lip Filler Swelling

They could all do with getting a free vaccine up there and saving themselves $600 for top up fillers ☺️
 

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Today have found the first serious adverse effect of a vaccine.Severe GBS from Pfizer.On IVIG now.
 

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serious adverse effect of a vaccine.Severe GBS from Pfizer
A prior history of GBS was never a contraindication for PZ and SV. There is an Israeli study into GBS recurrence after PZ. Basically a study looking at recurrence of GBS after PZ in people who had GBS in the past. Vast majority seem to recover

It’s a rare complication of various other vaccines as well. Influenza for one - 1:1 million but I’ll bet no one knows about it. Most who get it recover. It’s an overaction by the body to an infection or vaccination - an autoimmune disease affecting the insulation sheath around nerves thereby disrupting nerve conduction

GBS appears more common in CovidInfected vs CovidVaxxed

One of the several reason why I never support Vaccine mandates.

For those who don’t know, GBS causes muscle weakness in most (even as mild as a droopy eyelid) and paralysis unable to breathe and move in a few necessitating at times prolonged mechanical ventilation in ICU. The longest I’ve seen is 1 year 4 months. They usually survive. What kills them is secondary infection and sepsis. Long Covid?. It used to be said that a GBS patient in ICU is the greatest test of ICU nursing care - they are stable so medically not much to do, but can’t move for days months and recovery without pressure ulcers is therefore a testament to quality ICU nursing.
 
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JohnM

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What are the medicos' takes/comments on these:?


What is the general training in Australia with regard to aspiration for IM injections?
 

drron

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His one today was quite interesting aswell!

Sorry but he overlooks a number of important facts.There are ongoing trials in recognised research institutions with Ivermectin.The PRINCIPLE study out of Oxford is one with a very good reputation.No results yet.

The Cochrane organisation reviews many medical trials and has a reasonable though not perfect track record of lack of bias.It's review on invermectin felt that the evidence on invermectin was of very low quality and no overall effectiveness or lack of it could be made.

They have done many reviews into covid related topics.

Then the graphs of current cases per million showed nearly twice the number of cases in the UK v USA and suggests that the AZ vaccine was the reason.However then the graph of hospitalisations per million showed the UK was at half the rate of the USA.By his reasoning this would suggest the AZ vaccine was may be much more effective at reducing hospitalisations than the mRNA vaccines.Both of these suggestions are wrong.

In the UK there has been virtual mandatory testing of school children so a large proportion of asymptomatic patients are identified which is not the case in the USA.
 

Pom-DownUnder

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In the UK there has been virtual mandatory testing of school children so a large proportion of asymptomatic patients are identified which is not the case in the USA.
While i think the jury is still out on a number of issues I think there seems to be a bit of 'vaccine is the treatment' blindness. Couple of my UK mates have had covid now who have been double vax'd quite a while. One just over it and one diagnosed a couple of days ago.

In both cases they are / were completely wiped out, aching etc.

With the treatment offered that which would make a homeopath proud. ie. water.

jury out on ivermectin, ok, but its harmless so why not
jury out on HCQ ok, but i know i couldnt source any for nearly a month for my wife (none cv related) last year
jury not out on monoclonals (too expensive i guess?)
not even advised to buy things like vit C / D / zinc etc

just 'go home and ride it out'

seems very poor nearly 2 years into this mess
 

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While i think the jury is still out on a number of issues I think there seems to be a bit of 'vaccine is the treatment' blindness. Couple of my UK mates have had covid now who have been double vax'd quite a while. One just over it and one diagnosed a couple of days ago.

In both cases they are / were completely wiped out, aching etc.

With the treatment offered that which would make a homeopath proud. ie. water.

jury out on ivermectin, ok, but its harmless so why not
jury out on HCQ ok, but i know i couldnt source any for nearly a month for my wife (none cv related) last year
jury not out on monoclonals (too expensive i guess?)
not even advised to buy things like vit C / D / zinc etc

just 'go home and ride it out'

seems very poor nearly 2 years into this mess
There are actually a few medications that are used to treat Covid if you become unwell enough to need admission to hospital or if you are early in the disease and at risk of getting severe disease.
Corticosteroids (Dexamethasone usually)
Barictinib
Remdesevir
Tocilizumab
Prevention of severe disease we currently have
Sotrovimab

There have been many trials around the world and many still being undertaken

Influenza has been around for years making people feel awful and that’s pretty much what Covid-19 is for a lot of people.
The recommendation for home treatment is the same, rest, fluids, paracetamol or inbuprofen.
 
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