General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[Pushka]

The timing of this was that SA was still open (just) and the Barossa cluster was on the news. It seemed bizarre to me that I was persona non-grata because I came from Tasmania but no questions were being asked about where in SA others had come from.
This whole domestic quarantine thing should be being handled competently at a federal level (OK- oxymoron alert registered), with the country being considered as a whole.
A day of brainstorming and another couple to put it together and the whole country could be segmented along logical, enforceable lines. Each segment classified according to risk and inter segment travel controlled accordingly. Interestingly, this is sort of evolving anyway, driven by the various State Governments, but the local approach is leading to inconsistencies that are very frustrating to those involved with them. I'm watching the last six years of building a business happily dissolving away because my competition are not subject to the restrictions that I am. No doubt others are in a similar position. Stimulus payments (yet to see one!), do not make up for the loss of a client base.

I don't think the Federal Government is appropriate to be honest. People would find it difficult for the same government to isolate NSW but not Victoria. And if the people don't cooperate then it is all over red rover.

 

[OZDUCK]

The WA Govt. is talking about chartering a plane for the 2 way transfer of ex-quarantined people.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes while I agree with the sentiments, these are internet or twitter unverified memes from UK, not actually anything have received. I don’t see the point in exacerbating the situation in Tas?

Plus in the UK they have a huge daily death rate at present and stricter rules and so you can understand people being being more on edge as the fear level will be so much greater.

 

[p--and--t]

The WA Govt. is talking about chartering a plane for the 2 way transfer of ex-quarantined people.

Allegedly there is not a shortage of aircraft available for hire (all QF fleet except 3 grounded, all VA fleet except 1 grounded, all TT fleet grounded).

 

[Flashback]

Plus in the UK they have a huge daily death rate at present and stricter rules and so you can understand people being being more on edge as the fear level will be so much greater.

And yet see my post above ... People still just don't care

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And yet see my post above ... People still just don't care

The vast majority do. There will always be idiots.. well until CV Idiotsonly comes out

 

[Julesmac]

Yesterday I went to Karingal shopping centre for a quick food shop & for a replacement electric jug Into BigW first - it was as busy as on a normal weekend. The vast majority of shoppers seemed oblivious to the social distancing rules & looked like they were shopping for all kinds of things - clothes, cosmetics, etc. I quickly left and went to Woolies. Same deal! No controls over how many people were entering the store and again not much attempt at distancing. I was absolutely gobsmacked! Coles had marks on the floor outside and seemed to be much more careful about numbers in and out. However by then I was really spooked and left minus any purchases. MrMac is over 70 and immunity compromised and to be out and about seeing people not having regard to keeping the rules was truly scary. This was the first time I'd had to get any shopping since the restrictions were in place, my daughters have been helping out - and I certainly won't be doing it again. So I guess it's not just backpackers and young people who are being idiots

 

[Pushka]

We had strict operating procedures in the Woolies store I went to on Saturday. I didn't have to queue but by the time I came out someone had clicked me out and another person was let in. The queue to get in stretched to the main door. Inside, this is a large modern store and there was lots of space. The checkout area got a little crowded but moving the trolley around secured my space.

 

[AIRwin]

The checkout area got a little crowded but moving the trolley around secured my space.

Was the handlebar wiped down before/after usage?

 

[juddles]

Depressing to reach the stage of "such people as you" in a general discussion. For the record, I am invariably polite to police and do not wash my car late at night, or any other time for that matter!
In the example in question, I refer back to my original response. One person, washing his car late at night. What exactly is there to assess? A legal activity, with negligible risk of spreading a virus. Considered in more general terms, which I think you are alluding to, I think my concern is based on the the use of on the spot fines in this situation.
On the spot fines are generally used in situations where there's very little room for doubt. You give someone an on the spot fine for a traffic offence because it's generally black and white. In this instance, they've introduced brand new laws, with a bunch of ambiguous exceptions, and then sent the police in to enforce them with on the spot fines. They're essentially using the on the spot fine system to pervert the legal system.
I totally understand the reasoning, but I also think it is important to recognise and discuss what is going on here. It's so very easy to slip down the "end justifies the means" path. I strongly suspect that not one of the fines issued would stand up in court against vigorous defence. There are so many loop holes that a competent defense could exploit. Obviously the intent is to slap the population into obedience, quickly and efficiently, but it's very easy for these tactics to slip into general use.

nutwood, first up, I should apologize for the "people like you" comment. I should expand a bit so it makes more sense...

I agree with so much of your post - especially in regard to why "on the spot" fines are used, and that many of the fines for social-distancing contraventions would be thrown out in court.

I think I am just defensive of the police position because I have been there - trying to enforce "whatever" the authorities want to at any given point in time - this is an old issue.

But perhaps you could "meet me in the middle". In stead of suggesting that police are abusing their powers, why not attack the government itself for not making rules that are crystal clear? The "police" are not trying to "pervert the legal system"! They are just trying to do what is ordered of them, between the never ending other daily jobs of domestic violence and ... etc etc. Police are not a separate section of humanity - they are individual people with a difficult job that just try to do their best, even when that "best" is unclear.

Yesterday I attempted to research online what the current "rules" are in relation to the whole virus thing. There are, if you search hard, some aspects published by the federal government. There are also some things published within here in Qld for this state specifically. But there is no easily-found set of rules for the average person. Due to this I completely agree that most on-the-spot fines would fail if tested in court.

But again, I say that this is not the moment to find problems - the government is just trying to achieve results in a new war that has no precedent. The threat of fines is something that unfortunately a small percentage of the aussie populace needs to fear - as otherwise they ignore anything that is attempted for the common good.

Again, I refer to the incident where a young person copped a fine for doing learner-driving lessons. Common sense says that such an activity is not an alarming spreading-the-virus activity. But it does clearly fall out of the "allowed" activities, as it is certainly not an "essential" activity given the short federal government directives. So an individual police officer decided to write a ticket - again, completely in accord with the overall guidelines. But then that ticket was reversed (dropped). IMHO a good move. That is a typical case - the officer involved did nothing wrong - they did what they are supposed to do - and then the undesired (by the government) action was removed. This shows that the system is actually working, and that there are checks and balances.

The media will make mountains out of the molehills here in their ever desired need to make money out of news. Like you, I have no doubt that if the person with the ticket went to court, as anyone with a ticket can, that it would have been thrown out due to the simple fact that there is so much that is unclear out there.

But please, the police are doing it hard enough already - have a little faith in them too

 

[Scarlett]

AFF recruits

I know you mean AFP but its funnier this way! I have visions of AFFers getting Lounge & points training while locked up.

Overheard in the corridor:
"Uurgghh. I've got double DONE lessons with @JohnM after lunch, followed by a staying on topic tute with the Mods. FML."

#affrecruitlife ️🗺️🏛🛏

 

[nutwood]

nutwood, first up, I should apologize for the "people like you" comment. I should expand a bit so it makes more sense...

I agree with so much of your post - especially in regard to why "on the spot" fines are used, and that many of the fines for social-distancing contraventions would be thrown out in court.

I think I am just defensive of the police position because I have been there - trying to enforce "whatever" the authorities want to at any given point in time - this is an old issue.

But perhaps you could "meet me in the middle". In stead of suggesting that police are abusing their powers, why not attack the government itself for not making rules that are crystal clear? The "police" are not trying to "pervert the legal system"! They are just trying to do what is ordered of them, between the never ending other daily jobs of domestic violence and ... etc etc. Police are not a separate section of humanity - they are individual people with a difficult job that just try to do their best, even when that "best" is unclear.

Yesterday I attempted to research online what the current "rules" are in relation to the whole virus thing. There are, if you search hard, some aspects published by the federal government. There are also some things published within here in Qld for this state specifically. But there is no easily-found set of rules for the average person. Due to this I completely agree that most on-the-spot fines would fail if tested in court.

But again, I say that this is not the moment to find problems - the government is just trying to achieve results in a new war that has no precedent. The threat of fines is something that unfortunately a small percentage of the aussie populace needs to fear - as otherwise they ignore anything that is attempted for the common good.

Again, I refer to the incident where a young person copped a fine for doing learner-driving lessons. Common sense says that such an activity is not an alarming spreading-the-virus activity. But it does clearly fall out of the "allowed" activities, as it is certainly not an "essential" activity given the short federal government directives. So an individual police officer decided to write a ticket - again, completely in accord with the overall guidelines. But then that ticket was reversed (dropped). IMHO a good move. That is a typical case - the officer involved did nothing wrong - they did what they are supposed to do - and then the undesired (by the government) action was removed. This shows that the system is actually working, and that there are checks and balances.

The media will make mountains out of the molehills here in their ever desired need to make money out of news. Like you, I have no doubt that if the person with the ticket went to court, as anyone with a ticket can, that it would have been thrown out due to the simple fact that there is so much that is unclear out there.

But please, the police are doing it hard enough already - have a little faith in them too

No problem Juddles. I probably am one of "those" people, but I think we are on the same page. The "they" I was referring to was the Government for using on the spot fines to enforce new, untested laws. I wasn't specifically having a go at the police.
I actually do understand the logic and, to be honest, even the enforcement. Hit a few people with ridiculous fines. Everyone sparks up about it. Bingo! Massive advertising campaign for free. Everyone stays at home. My concern is how this plays out. It's so easy for Governments to pick up nasty habits.

 

[Pushka]

Was the handlebar wiped down before/after usage?

I do it myself - I drench the bar in the disinfectant before I start. There are usually no paper towels to wipe it with. Sometimes I wear gloves. But in reality, in looking at at the usual actions - eg unlocking car trunk to get groceries in - well - boom - handling goods = contamination of car keys.

 

[serfty]

So an individual police officer decided to write a ticket - again, completely in accord with the overall guidelines. But then that ticket was reversed (dropped). IMHO a good move. That is a typical case - the officer involved did nothing wrong - they did what they are supposed to do - and then the undesired (by the government) action was removed. This shows that the system is actually working, and that there are checks and balances ...

A further check available would be for a recipient of such a fine where the recipient believes it to be unfair would be to take to court where hopefully the magistrate would apply "the pub test" regarding any fairness involved.

I am thinking that with both the L plate drive and the car wash situations, if they went to court each would result in no fine needing to be paid. (I suspect that is why they have already been withdrawn.)

 

[get me outta here]

I think I read that the L-plate driver fine was withdrawn but the edict was that nobody else will get away with it so don’t try it.

 

[Steady]

I think I read that the L-plate driver fine was withdrawn but the edict was that nobody else will get away with it so don’t try it.

Is the L plate driving lesson ban a state thing? It’s not banned in Tassie, there are some restrictions such as staying in your local area etc

 

[Pushka]

Is the L plate driving lesson ban a state thing? It’s not banned in Tassie, there are some restrictions such as staying in your local area etc

Maybe there is a difference between a driving lesson - which is as Morrison, explained, is employment so essential, versus driving "experience" with a parent. There was an L driver on the road in SA the other day, in theory those plates shouldn't be seen unless of course, they are driving to a supermarket or doctors appointment with a parent/registered driver.

 

[get me outta here]

Ok, so they give the kid a driving lesson on the way to all the essential outings, shopping, getting petrol, pharmac_ etc etc. I think the current restrictions are ‘throw as many restrictions as we possibly can out there and we’ll sort it out later’. But, I think that is unfair on the police to have to police some silly laws that are inconsistent. To say there is some confusion is a bit of an understatement. Plus, there are some very judgemental people around who are ready to be horrible.

Maybe there is a difference between a driving lesson - which is as Morrison, explained, is employment so essential, versus driving "experience" with a parent. There was an L driver on the road in SA the other day, in theory those plates shouldn't be seen unless of course, they are driving to a supermarket or doctors appointment with a parent/registered driver.

Post automatically merged: Apr 13, 2020

Inconsistency is the name of the game

Is the L plate driving lesson ban a state thing? It’s not banned in Tassie, there are some restrictions such as staying in your local area etc

 

[get me outta here]

I don’t wish to be provocative, but aren’t most of those people all separated from each other, I can’t tell about the person on the mobility scooter in the back. (There’s at least 4 dogs there). So, as far as sitting down they are apart, but are they allowed to be sitting down at all? We are not allowed to sit down. That’s not fair Miss.

Don't people know what it means when they say groups of no more than 2 and with that 2, just people from one household? They're not exercising either.... I fear all parks will be closed here after the weekend as the weather is only going to get nicer and more people will flaunt the rules.

View attachment 213987

 

[Steady]

Maybe there is a difference between a driving lesson - which is as Morrison, explained, is employment so essential, versus driving "experience" with a parent. There was an L driver on the road in SA the other day, in theory those plates shouldn't be seen unless of course, they are driving to a supermarket or doctors appointment with a parent/registered driver.

Both are ok