Flying for company business - whose points?

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Most of our employees hae the opportunity to travel for business and all get to keep points. Our company also introduced a policy where you could use your accumulated points to fly for business and you would be reimbursed 50% of the ticket price (economy). I haven't used this policy yet as would rather keep points for upgrades, personal flights, etc
 
NM said:
There are often swings and roundabouts involved too. I work for a large multinational company and I am permitted to use the FF points earned from company travel for my own personal benefit. I had to pay the joining fee, and if I want to earn points on corporate credit card spending then I have to pay the annual rewards program membership fee.

However, in order to have these "perks", I am expected to travel on my own time with no paid overtime or time off in lieu. This generally means losing at least 3 weekends on my most common type of trip (ATW).


Reading all the posts on this thread have made me very thankful to be with my employer (and certainly not the govt!) - one of the largest employers in the world and also follows a some great corporate guidelines - a key one is about the value of the employee... I can hear you all thinking yea yea everyone has that, but this is the first company that I have worked with and heard of that actively enforces and behaves in this manner...

Subsequently they recognise that work travel is 99.99% of the time NOT a bonus but a hassle, it requires that managers that travel to carefully time plan workloads, to overcome the physical affect of jet lag, general tiredness, time away from home etc etc - all things we all know too well. In recognition of this, corporate issued an email confirming current policy that any points earned are available for personal use (as long as you pay joining fee obviously. Period.
 
jakeseven7 said:
Reading all the posts on this thread have made me very thankful to be with my employer (and certainly not the govt!) - one of the largest employers in the world and also follows a some great corporate guidelines - a key one is about the value of the employee... I can hear you all thinking yea yea everyone has that, but this is the first company that I have worked with and heard of that actively enforces and behaves in this manner...

Subsequently they recognise that work travel is 99.99% of the time NOT a bonus but a hassle, it requires that managers that travel to carefully time plan workloads, to overcome the physical affect of jet lag, general tiredness, time away from home etc etc - all things we all know too well. In recognition of this, corporate issued an email confirming current policy that any points earned are available for personal use (as long as you pay joining fee obviously. Period.

I tried to PM you but you are over your quota.

Do you mind revealing who your employer is? You do paint a very attractive picture of an employer who not only talks the talk but walks the walk!! Promise I will make sure you get any referral bonus ;-)

You can PM me if you don't want to publicise.
 
I have just discovered the closely related thread in the Airline Loyalty Programs/QFF forum entitled FFPs FOR GOVERNMENT STAFF, last action August 6, apparently the one referred to by Groundfeeder:

Groundfeeder said:
..... In my Gov't job, I now get FFP's and SC's for Gov't travel (following a 180 from previous policy) and will happily use points for travel if QF don't put up further barriers to diminish the efficiencies I am seeking in doing so - as discussed on another thread....
I would be really interested to hear from Groundfeeder and everyone else with similar experience just why their Dept (or Company) decided to reverse their policy and allow private use of 'company' points. Might be able to mount a challenge in my Dept!

I'd also like to get a reference to the Federal court case cited in the other thread.

I would also like to hear from others whose points have been traded away in a negotiated company/Dept fare discount scheme, just how much discount their employer was able to get in lieu of points.

If I really have to continue to live with no points for official travel, I'd like to try to ensure the Dept maximises the discount, as the travel costs of my staff and I come out of MY annual travel budget, which I have to earn from external contracts.
 
jakeseven7 said:
Reading all the posts on this thread have made me very thankful to be with my employer (and certainly not the govt!) - one of the largest employers in the world and also follows a some great corporate guidelines - a key one is about the value of the employee... I can hear you all thinking yea yea everyone has that, but this is the first company that I have worked with and heard of that actively enforces and behaves in this manner...

Subsequently they recognise that work travel is 99.99% of the time NOT a bonus but a hassle, it requires that managers that travel to carefully time plan workloads, to overcome the physical affect of jet lag, general tiredness, time away from home etc etc - all things we all know too well. In recognition of this, corporate issued an email confirming current policy that any points earned are available for personal use (as long as you pay joining fee obviously. Period.

I am curious to know what are the "Best Practice" policies out there in relation to travel. For example, our travel policy can be summarised like this:

- All travel where possible with Qantas
- Domestic flights, all on economy, unless you are senior mgmt and above
- International flights, if more than short haul, business class for managers and above, top level mgmt can fly first class for long haul.
- All points belong to employees (part of the 'benefits' of working here) but obviously employee pays for membership
- If you travel more than 12 sectors per annum, QC is paid for

I can go on and on about hotels, per diems, etc. but that covers the flying part.

JOBU
 
In our company the rules are very clear.

- If the company pays for your flight and your salary while flying, the points belong to the company otherwise they are yours to keep.

If you have ever had to fly your attorney to a specific location you can appreciate how employers look at FF points earning.

You pay your attorney a discounted rate of $150/hour while flying + airfare costs.

We can't always have our pie and eat it too :)
 
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trippin_the_rift said:
You pay your attorney a discounted rate of $150/hour while flying + airfare costs.
And I bet the attorney gets to keep the FF points as well :evil:.
 
NM said:
And I bet the attorney gets to keep the FF points as well :evil:.

funny you say that - this is our attorney that helped draft these guidelines regarding loyalty programs for our company :cool:
 
trippin_the_rift said:
funny you say that - this is our attorney that helped draft these guidelines regarding loyalty programs for our company :cool:

What if the employee had paid the joining fee themselves?

I actually think it is disappointing when companies take this position. It gives quite an indication of how they value their employees.
 
NM said:
And I bet the attorney gets to keep the FF points as well :evil:.

When I was on the consulting side of the fence a lot of my clients expected you to flyin your own time and wouldnt pay for travel time - the quote was "What value are you delivering to me whilst you're in a plane?"

I think FF program benefits and company attitude really do tell a story of the company's approach to their staff.

It was actually one of my questions in my interview as to what class of travel the international travel would eb and if it hadnt been business (although I am agrieved that its not business to NZ ;)) I wouldnt have taken the job.
 
simongr said:
When I was on the consulting side of the fence a lot of my clients expected you to flyin your own time and wouldnt pay for travel time - the quote was "What value are you delivering to me whilst you're in a plane?"

I think FF program benefits and company attitude really do tell a story of the company's approach to their staff.

It was actually one of my questions in my interview as to what class of travel the international travel would eb and if it hadnt been business (although I am agrieved that its not business to NZ ;)) I wouldnt have taken the job.

When I travel, I only do it in company time. As far as the value being delivered, my response would be the value of my getting to a location that the company wants me to go to. If that value is < cost of time + fare, then obviously there is no need for me to go

The question about class of travel is something that I have also asked in an interview where travel was likely to be needed and I had the business class travel specifically stated in the contract

Dave
 
simongr said:
I think FF program benefits and company attitude really do tell a story of the company's approach to their staff.

Just remember employers have the option of sending you on ANY airline :mrgreen:
 
Why does the phrase "Professional Working Day" come to the fore here for me?

I know, it's a rhetorical question.

Do your work; travel if you need, but complete those tasks!

I travel, but whether it's on my own time and/or on my employer's time is moot. I get the job done & I get paid.
 
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I would be really interested to hear from Groundfeeder and everyone else with similar experience just why their Dept (or Company) decided to reverse their policy and allow private use of 'company' points. Might be able to mount a challenge in my Dept!
Points started appearing on my summary in May this year. Again, these are only to be used for Gov't travel as far as I'm aware.
 
serfty said:
Why does the phrase "Professional Working Day" come to the fore here for me?
.

Most professions charge clients by the hour ime ( e.g. solicitors, barristers, accountants etc )

The concept of "Professional Working Day" is a concept that companies try to use to get people to work for free. It's a great wheeze if you can charge a client $300 per hour for services for 11 hours but only end up paying the employee actually performing the work for 7

Dave
 
serfty said:
Why does the phrase "Professional Working Day" come to the fore here for me?

I know, it's a rhetorical question.

Do your work; travel if you need, but complete those tasks!

I travel, but whether it's on my own time and/or on my employer's time is moot. I get the job done & I get paid.


From Perth I generally get to travel on Sundays when travelling to the Eastern states. Sundays I generally regard as my time. If my employer was to suddenly say that the FF points were theres, and I would receive no compensation whatsoever for giving up a chunk of my weekend, I would suddenly become a less mobile worker.
 
oz_mark said:
From Perth I generally get to travel on Sundays when travelling to the Eastern states. Sundays I generally regard as my time. If my employer was to suddenly say that the FF points were theres, and I would receive no compensation whatsoever for giving up a chunk of my weekend, I would suddenly become a less mobile worker.

I think this topic has just about been done to death, but I think that there a couple of important points to make.

A lot of the members of this forum (myself included) get paid well above anything resembling "award" wages. It is therefore reasonable to expect work demands to occasionally infringe upon home life. For example, catching a flight at sparrows'-fart and getting home long after the kids are in bed, so that a full days' work can be achieved on an interstate visit. In recognition of the impact of such travel, my employer pays for lounge access (which I decline) and makes no demands upon the accrued FF points. They do expect me to comply with their BFOD policy, but that's another issue that has been discussed elsewhere.

For members who are in government employ (and often under an award agreement) the issue of public money and fringe benefits comes to the fore. People who travel frequently perhaps have a less romantic view of air-travel and would not begrudge public servants getting something back, but there are many (even fellow employees) who take a different view.

So how to get a reasonable outcome? I think you just have to state your case, and if given a knock-back then accept their decision .... and then match your travel rules to theirs.

E.g. They enforce BFOD and no FF points, so you enforce a "no-loss" policy. Which means :-

You would normally leave home at 08:30 to arrive at work at 09:00, so that's the time that you book the taxi for. You should then allow adequate time to get to the airport and check in, so it is unlikely you should book a flight that leaves before 10:30. At the other end you will spend some time getting to your destination (oh dear ... what a long way it is from Avalon to the CBD!). Should be there by lunchtime, so after the statuary 45 minutes you can finally meet with your customer. It will have to be a tight agenda though, as the taxi back to the airport leaves in 90 minutes. Barring delays that should get you home at the usual time of 5:30.

Or maybe they could sacrifice the "benefit" (worth 5% or less I would say) and easily double their staffs' productivity when travelling. I would have thought that this was right up the Howard manifesto on work contracts.


Cheers,

Andrew

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