Flyers Rights

[Deleted member]

I saw this Leg room petition is a bit of a stretch - Travel - NZ Herald News in the NZ herald today.
Its quite interesting to see that U.S. activism may have an impact on seats ( in that country anyway)

 

[JohnK]

I know we all look for bargains when travelling but I for one would pay more for full service including a little extra leg room in economy.

 

[harvyk]

When asked, we'll say that leg room and full-meal service matters. But in truth, the bottom-line price (mostly) decides how we fly.

Interesting comment, considering that at least in the US, such perks are no longer available on any airline and have basically been replaced with "sit down and shut up" services across all airlines even the traditional full service.

I've also heard that airlines which have attempted to have actual full service are pretty much voted down by investors thanks to the belief that LCC's are the only way to go.

PS I don't count airlines which offer full service but only in higher classes as full service. I only count an airline as a full service airline if everyone is provided a basic set of perks on all tickets (aka no buy on board at any level for things which used to be "free").

 

[Dr Ralph]

A petition is not the way to fix the problem.

 

[NFF]

Who offers the most comfortable economy seats especially for long haul flights ?

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Define "most comfortable"?
Do you value more legroom (seat pitch), or greater seat width?
Never mind the features of individual seats (such as Etihad's headrest or AirNZ's SkyCouch).
And seats vary across different aircraft types, even within one airline's fleet.
There is an interesting comparison chart here, though I'm not sure how often it is updated.

 

[wandering_fred]

Interesting comment, considering that at least in the US, such perks are no longer available on any airline and have basically been replaced with "sit down and shut up" services across all airlines even the traditional full service.
...

I've been lucky enough to be able to avoid Y seats in the USA mostly in the last few years. But the MCE seats on AA are actually slightly bigger and further apart and the three hour or so flight that I was in one was a great deal more comfortable than the remainder of the Y section.

Consider MCE (and United E+) a poor man's domestic implementation of Y+ seating. YMMV

Otherwise happy wandering

Fred

 

[wandering_fred]

USA flyer's rights

You have the right to remain silent, if you fail to do so.....


Happy wandering

Fred

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But the MCE seats on AA are actually slightly bigger and further apart and the three hour or so flight that I was in one was a great deal more comfortable than the remainder of the Y section.

I can't find any evidence to support MCE seats being any bigger than regular coach seats? They're supposed to be the same, but with additional legroom.

AA's 'more room throughout coach' was an excellent idea 10-15 years ago. Standard seat pitch was a minimum 34'. Unfortunately that obviously wansn't a money earner and they reverted to the standard 31' pitch

The biggest issue I see rights wise is not necessarily more legroom, but safety issues, and a compensation regime along the lines of EU261.

 

[Mattg]

Who offers the most comfortable economy seats especially for long haul flights ?

Not the U.S. Airlines, that's for sure. As for the best though, I guess it depends on the aircraft and class of service as well as the airline. At least for economy, I'd personally rate the Qantas A380 and Singapore Airlines quite highly.

 

[wandering_fred]

I can't find any evidence to support MCE seats being any bigger than regular coach seats? They're supposed to be the same, but with additional legroom.
...

Take a look at the seat maps for the AA 777s.
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-200 (777) V2
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-300ER (77W)

The MCE section is 9 across and "ordinary" Y is 10 across. and the spacing is a bit better. And the AA elites who travel long haul Y definitely prefer the MCE section if they miss out on the exit rows.

The one time I was in MCE was on a 763 where the difference was primarily in pitch at 7 across.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Take a look at the seat maps for the AA 777s.
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-200 (777) V2
SeatGuru Seat Map American Airlines Boeing 777-300ER (77W)

The MCE section is 9 across and "ordinary" Y is 10 across. and the spacing is a bit better. And the AA elites who travel long haul Y definitely prefer the MCE section if they miss out on the exit rows.

The one time I was in MCE was on a 763 where the difference was primarily in pitch at 7 across.

Happy wandering

Fred

Yes - good point re the 777s - I had forgotten AA is going to 10-across

For other aircraft the difference is the pitch.

 

[NFF]

Width is more important especially if there is a big person sitting next to me.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

You can't rely on customers to tell you what they want

Personally I'm a fan of something like this for long haul / a380/747 flights:
- Ditch all economy seats
- Take a standard premium economy seat and make it the new economy, remove 1 inch of leg room and add a tilt function to the seat.
- Increase prices by 50% to compensate and give it a new name that isn't linked to 'Economy'. Kind of like BA using 'world traveller' which disguises it as coach.
- A380 could do 2-2-2 config with the middle 2 seats being fully flat biz seats which become the new premium economy. Flat bed, economy service in the Y cabin.
- Ditch biz class entirely.
- Make first class OTT (etihad style) and make it a private jet type experience.
- Do a deal with Bose to install noise cancellation technology directly into the aircraft in first class so the cabin is naturally quieter
- Do a deal with xx_xx_x to fix the big problem of xx_xx_xx_x (xx_x because its such an awesome idea)

I'll run the calcs but off the top of my head this would reduce dead weight of extra seats, less pax, less fuel, less staff, less sales required, less product, less cleaning, slightly less stress on the airframe so the cost base is already down.
Charging a premium to make up for lost ground in $ per seat brings any 'lost' revenue back up.
Anyone who buys purely on price (which ironically is only a small%) can continue flying another airline who is happy to make next to nix on them.

**** me I'm in the wrong industry. I should work for an airline.

 

[JessicaTam]

<snip>

**** me I'm in the wrong industry. I should work for an airline.

I think that has been mentioned once or twice.

 

[Deleted member]

Width is more important especially if there is a big person sitting next to me.

That would be me

 

[Deleted member]

You can't rely on customers to tell you what they want

Personally I'm a fan of something like this for long haul / a380/747 flights:
- Ditch all economy seats
- Take a standard premium economy seat and make it the new economy, remove 1 inch of leg room and add a tilt function to the seat.
- Increase prices by 50% to compensate and give it a new name that isn't linked to 'Economy'. Kind of like BA using 'world traveller' which disguises it as coach.
- A380 could do 2-2-2 config with the middle 2 seats being fully flat biz seats which become the new premium economy. Flat bed, economy service in the Y cabin.
- Ditch biz class entirely.
- Make first class OTT (etihad style) and make it a private jet type experience.
- Do a deal with Bose to install noise cancellation technology directly into the aircraft in first class so the cabin is naturally quieter
- Do a deal with xx_xx_x to fix the big problem of xx_xx_xx_x (xx_x because its such an awesome idea)

I'll run the calcs but off the top of my head this would reduce dead weight of extra seats, less pax, less fuel, less staff, less sales required, less product, less cleaning, slightly less stress on the airframe so the cost base is already down.
Charging a premium to make up for lost ground in $ per seat brings any 'lost' revenue back up.
Anyone who buys purely on price (which ironically is only a small%) can continue flying another airline who is happy to make next to nix on them.

**** me I'm in the wrong industry. I should work for an airline.

Ok. It's time to wake up now. .

 

[juddles]

I know we all look for bargains when travelling but I for one would pay more for full service including a little extra leg room in economy.

John, unfortunately the % of people who think like you is very small. In the modern age it is simple to instantly compare prices of any product online, and consumers vote with their wallets. The airlines KNOW that people flying Y will NOT pay for extra room. Those that value the space enough purchase PE. Any airline that increased the space required to fit in a pax would be committing financial suicide.

 

[eastwest101]

snip.. In the modern age it is simple to instantly compare prices of any product online, and consumers vote with their wallets. The airlines KNOW that people flying Y will NOT pay for extra room. Those that value the space enough purchase PE. Any airline that increased the space required to fit in a pax would be committing financial suicide.

But its also possible for consumers to instantly find and compare the seat pitch/width, reputation, service recovery horror stories and other service levels on the internet as well, so it would be a bit simplistic to say that most consumers shop purely based on price - otherwise everyone in the world would be driving Kia Rio hatchbacks or everyone would be flying TT and QF VA and JQ wouldn't exist. Buyers all purchase on a complex and individual matrix of price, hard and soft product, corporate and other discounts, service, convenience, timing, loyalty etc etc. The argument about buying PE is only valid where PE is offered for sale (not all airlines and routes offer this product) and I argue that if PE is offered for sale at a reasonable price or a high quality product - then buyers will buy it.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

John, unfortunately the % of people who think like you is very small. In the modern age it is simple to instantly compare prices of any product online, and consumers vote with their wallets. The airlines KNOW that people flying Y will NOT pay for extra room.

Sugar and flour business.

A change is needed to restore those by-gone phat margins. I believe the answers are out there. Do airlines have people that dream up ideas and calculate commercial viability?