Flight Centre refunds for cancelled flights

[woodborer]

Im pretty confused by what people are saying in this thread. I work in ecommerce and have had lost chargebacks against customers with signed dhl tracking receipts. I dont know why people think travel agents should be able to not deliver goods or services and keep the money.

I know theres all this nonesense and legal stuff people are citing but at the end of the day people go to travel agents to buy tickets to travel and if they dont deliver they should refund peoples money

From what I can see, there are people that think travel agents should be remunerated for the provision of their service, even though the consumer did not get anything. While I don't dispute that, the problem I see is that no one has considered what happens when the suppliers do a mass cancellation of services.

Flight Centre initially responded by clipping the refund. This would be fine if there had been an upfront disclosure that was the process. As far as I can see, such disclosure was never made.

If a business is going to base its operational model on taking commissions from suppliers, then that is a risk that they may never have been aware of.

 

[ben1989123]

From what I can see, there are people that think travel agents should be remunerated for the provision of their service, even though the consumer did not get anything. While I don't dispute that, the problem I see is that no one has considered what happens when the suppliers do a mass cancellation of services.

Flight Centre initially responded by clipping the refund. This would be fine if there had been an upfront disclosure that was the process. As far as I can see, such disclosure was never made.

If a business is going to base its operational model on taking commissions from suppliers, then that is a risk that they may never have been aware of.

Yeah thats the thing about being in business, it is a risk. Investors take a risk and get compensated while they dont really do any work. Its for investing their money and taking risk.

We didnt buy shares in flight center we brought plane tickets. In my instance they wont even respond to me for months to organize credit etc.

 

[jarman_ah]

FYI of others, we rang Aunt Betty on Saturday (May 2nd) around lunchtime and answered within 2-3 minutes by someone with a very strong Filipino accent. (By comparison rang on a week day, a week ago, and no answer [other than recorded messages saying if your flight is not within 48hrs please hang up] after a couple hours.)

Well, our dealing with Aunt Betty was in 2016, and we spent a week talking to a sweet young girl based in the Philippines, because any call to Aunt Betty (which actually had an office in Queensland then) diverted to that country. She was lovely... polite, eager to help, but didn't have a clue about how to fix the things that were going wrong. After more than a week of being in the situation of having given Aunt Betty our money and not knowing if we actually had any booking, we searched and found the Queensland office and talked to a Vietnamese gentleman who had a bit of "clout" (though he wasn't the boss... second in charge, back then; the boss doesn't take calls, he said). If that office, and those two offices, are no longer working, you might have to pursue the issue through Flight Centre, as Aunt Betty's ambassadors in the Philippines don't really have much idea about what to do. (P.S it took several weeks, and some "blood on the floor", but our issue was resolved satisfactorily. Hope yours is also!)

 

[p--and--t]

Well, our dealing with Aunt Betty was in 2016, and we spent a week talking to a sweet young girl based in the Philippines, because any call to Aunt Betty (which actually had an office in Queensland then) diverted to that country. She was lovely... polite, eager to help, but didn't have a clue about how to fix the things that were going wrong. After more than a week of being in the situation of having given Aunt Betty our money and not knowing if we actually had any booking, we searched and found the Queensland office and talked to a Vietnamese gentleman who had a bit of "clout" (though he wasn't the boss... second in charge, back then; the boss doesn't take calls, he said). If that office, and those two offices, are no longer working, you might have to pursue the issue through Flight Centre, as Aunt Betty's ambassadors in the Philippines don't really have much idea about what to do. (P.S it took several weeks, and some "blood on the floor", but our issue was resolved satisfactorily. Hope yours is also!)

Yes was fixed satisfactorily (fingers crossed). Fairly sure the call was directed to PH, but didn't ask.

We cancelled a series of flights with MH in July 2020 because we no longer require them.

AB agreed fee free (after recent pressure from ACCC) to organise a full value voucher from MH that is usable until 30th June 2021 (the voucher should arrive in email within 14 days if all goes well..

Prior to last Saturday, we were told they would charge us $250 each to send a note to MH to cancel.

 

[jarman_ah]

Yes was fixed satisfactorily (fingers crossed). Fairly sure the call was directed to PH, but didn't ask.

We cancelled a series of flights with MH in July 2020 because we no longer require them.

AB agreed (after recent pressure from ACCC) to organise a full value voucher from MH that is usable until 30th June 2021 (the voucher should arrive in email within 14 days if all goes well..

Prior to last Saturday, we were told they would charge us $250 each to send a note to MH to cancel.

That's great news, as now I don't have to do what I considered doing in my last post and naming the two Queensland Aunt Betty officers (the boss who "doesn't talk to the public" eventually initiated contact with me, so I got her name). Might have been irrelevant anyway, because they have probably moved on, after three and a half years, which is a LONG time in the world of travel "agencies"!

 

[ben1989123]

Yes was fixed satisfactorily (fingers crossed). Fairly sure the call was directed to PH, but didn't ask.

We cancelled a series of flights with MH in July 2020 because we no longer require them.

AB agreed fee free (after recent pressure from ACCC) to organise a full value voucher from MH that is usable until 30th June 2021 (the voucher should arrive in email within 14 days if all goes well..

Prior to last Saturday, we were told they would charge us $250 each to send a note to MH to cancel.

How in the world did you get through? Were you using the phone number on their contact page? Ive been trying since February to call them

Contact Us

www.auntbetty.com.au

 

[p--and--t]

How in the world did you get through? Were you using the phone number on their contact page? Ive been trying since February to call them

Contact Us

www.auntbetty.com.au

+61 2 8103 2106 Saturday lunchtime. Tried a few days before and could't get through.

 

[jarman_ah]

+61 2 8103 2106 Saturday lunchtime. Tried a few days before and could't get through.

Maybe these email addresses from 2016 are still current:
[email protected]
[email protected]

 

[theblank]

Agree. The brand was largely awful before this and now totally irretrievable. Or it should be. I’m sure plenty will still use them which is sad given how easy it is to do it all yourself 9 times out of 10.

their financial success and stock price before all this suggests otherwise regarding the brand.
Flight Centre have also been bookmarked as a stock that will boom when we come out of this crisis.

and this decision that they will pay out the refunds hasnt effected their stock value. 6 months later nobody will remember this was an issue.

 

[jarman_ah]

their financial success and stock price before all this suggests otherwise regarding the brand.
Flight Centre have also been bookmarked as a stock that will boom when we come out of this crisis.

and this decision that they will pay out the refunds hasnt effected their stock value. 6 months later nobody will remember this was an issue.

Like everyone else, I am looking forward to "coming out of this crisis" and maybe even planning a trip again.

But I don't believe that no one will even remember the Flight Centre debacle. I would hope that travellers have a long memory, and my suspicion is that a lot of travellers who were ripped off by these "agents" years ago and hadn't even realised they were being ripped off will now think through again the way they were treated. And they will look elsewhere for their holiday arrangements (possibly the major recommendation on this thread... do it yourself, on-line).

Maybe you are right that it has all been for nothing.... but I very much hope you are wrong.

 

[NoName]

their financial success and stock price before all this suggests otherwise regarding the brand.
Flight Centre have also been bookmarked as a stock that will boom when we come out of this crisis.

and this decision that they will pay out the refunds hasnt effected their stock value. 6 months later nobody will remember this was an issue.

Their stock price in the 18 months prior to the poo hitting the fan had dropped approx 35% while the broader market rose approx 15% so not sure that would be a metric worth citing here.

It remains to be seen whether people will forget about something like that. Maybe they will maybe they won’t. Personally I’d lean towards the thousands of people who were ripped off until FC were shamed into refunding holding a grudge.

 

[JWILLS]

not sure if correct but when I use to book flights with Flight centre never been offered a upgrade - now I go direct to airlines and nine times out of ten can bid for a upgrade - Plus Flight centre screw you with credit card fees - they never give them back!

 

[SOPOOR]

not sure if correct but when I use to book flights with Flight centre never been offered a upgrade - now I go direct to airlines and nine times out of ten can bid for a upgrade - Plus Flight centre screw you with credit card fees - they never give them back!

I could be mistaken but in the past I thought if I wanted to buy flights only, I would go to skyscanner or the airline directly, but if I wanted a package tour which included hotels, flights, activites etc, etc I would use Flight centre, and obviously id be paying a small premium for it, say 10%

 

[jarman_ah]

not sure if correct but when I use to book flights with Flight centre never been offered a upgrade - now I go direct to airlines and nine times out of ten can bid for a upgrade - Plus Flight centre screw you with credit card fees - they never give them back!

Well, airlines hit you with credit card fees, too. And they have various fees for change and cancellation.

But some travel agents -- including one mentioned several times in the course of this eleven-page thread -- seemingly like to quietly "fiddle" with the airline's cancellation policy for their own benefit. In my case, I bought (through the agent) Qatar tickets which were advertised everywhere (on Qatar's site and on other agents' sites) as charging a $200 fee for cancellation. When the agent's ticket voucher arrived, that had been changed to "NO REFUND, NO ALTERATION, or FORFEIT 100% OF THE PRICE". And as well as that, there were the agent's fees in the event of cancellation, which were another $250 per ticket! That seemed to mean that if I cancelled I would lose more than the full price of the forfeited tickets.

And I also suspected that the agent might just keep its "fiddle" from Qatar's knowledge, so that when Qatar sent along its refund (after subtracting the two hundred dollars), the $1800-odd "left-over", instead of being forwarded to me, could well go into the agent's coffers..... and then I'd get a further $250 bill from the agent for its own fees!

I actually threatened to go to the press about this, and actually had the letter all written when the agent suddenly decided to do the right thing, in this single case. But it's not impossible that some "agents" cheat the customer and the airline they represent in the one transaction, and nobody on either side notices.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, airlines hit you with credit card fees, too. And they have various fees for change and cancellation.

But some travel agents -- including one mentioned several times in the course of this eleven-page thread -- seemingly like to quietly "fiddle" with the airline's cancellation policy for their own benefit. In my case, I bought (through the agent) Qatar tickets which were advertised everywhere (on Qatar's site and on other agents' sites) as charging a $200 fee for cancellation. When the agent's ticket voucher arrived, that had been changed to "NO REFUND, NO ALTERATION, or FORFEIT 100% OF THE PRICE". And as well as that, there were the agent's fees in the event of cancellation, which were another $250 per ticket! That seemed to mean that if I cancelled I would lose more than the full price of the forfeited tickets.

And I also suspected that the agent might just keep its "fiddle" from Qatar's knowledge, so that when Qatar sent along its refund (after subtracting the two hundred dollars), the $1800-odd "left-over", instead of being forwarded to me, could well go into the agent's coffers..... and then I'd get a further $250 bill from the agent for its own fees!

I actually threatened to go to the press about this, and actually had the letter all written when the agent suddenly decided to do the right thing, in this single case. But it's not impossible that some "agents" cheat the customer and the airline they represent in the one transaction, and nobody on either side notices.

You cannot be charged more than you paid for the ticket to cancel. So FC's $250 fees would not be in addition to the non-refundable fare. If you decide to cancel, you'd walk away, end of story.

I suspect for many on-line travel agents they simply have standard terms and conditions... which are often 'this fare is non refundable' even if it is (albeit with cancellation fees). If you bought a fare through Qatar that had a cancellation fee of $200, even though FC might issue you with a 'this fare is non-refundable', that may not always apply. In that case you'd get back your money less the airline's fee, and FC's fee (so on $1800 you'd get back $1350).

 

[jarman_ah]

You cannot be charged more than you paid for the ticket to cancel. So FC's $250 fees would not be in addition to the non-refundable fare. If you decide to cancel, you'd walk away, end of story.

I suspect for many on-line travel agents they simply have standard terms and conditions... which are often 'this fare is non refundable' even if it is (albeit with cancellation fees). If you bought a fare through Qatar that had a cancellation fee of $200, even though FC might issue you with a 'this fare is non-refundable', that may not always apply. In that case you'd get back your money less the airline's fee, and FC's fee (so on $1800 you'd get back $1350).

Which all seems to add up to something like, "You don't quite know what, if anything, you're going to get back, but you can be confident that you are being ripped off." It's not a very reputable line of business, is it? As I said, my daughter's school friend, who wound up working for Flight Centre, and who was a decent, honest young lady, was quite embarrassed -- maybe "ashamed" described her reaction better -- when I asked her straight-out about the extra (and largely unknown by consumers) cancellation fees her company charged.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Which all seems to add up to something like, "You don't quite know what, if anything, you're going to get back, but you can be confident that you are being ripped off." It's not a very reputable line of business, is it? As I said, my daughter's school friend, who wound up working for Flight Centre, and who was a decent, honest young lady, was quite embarrassed -- maybe "ashamed" described her reaction better -- when I asked her straight-out about the extra (and largely unknoewn by consumers) cancellation fees her company charged.

The cancellation charges are there for everyone to see... $300 or whatever they are. I booked a ticket once through FC many years ago (price match) and I had to sign a form in the agency stating I'd noted the terms and conditions with FC, including cancellation fees. For on line, you have to tick the box.

The cancellation fees have only come to attention recently because FC was charging them where they had no basis to do so... that is, outside the terms and conditions customers agreed to.

 

[jarman_ah]

"The cancellation fees are there for everyone to see".... if you look hard enough.

I think a fee of $300 to cancel or change a flight that might only cost a bit more than that in the first place is a very substantial cost to factor into your holiday, and should properly be featured quite conspicuously in any papers connected with the transaction. If Flight Centre points it out to you and ensures you are aware of it, then I would agree with Mel_Traveller... there's no point in the traveller coming back later and saying, "Oh, I knew all about it, but I didn't really believe they'd actually go ahead and do it!"

My point, as someone who dealt several times pre-2015 with Flight Centre, is that the fee was never pointed out to me, and I didn't spend that fifteen minutes going through the contract with a fine-tooth comb to find it for myself. Clearly, I am not alone... but I guess I was luckier than many because I never had to cancel or change. Maybe some of the others who got caught were lulled into a false sense of security by believing that Flight Centre was a good old fashioned travel AGENT. I know that's what I thought, and it wasn't until I found out about the cancellation fees (I found out from a disgruntled customer, not from Flight Centre!) that I finally woke up to the fact that it no longer uses the word "agency" in its name. As I have said all along in this thread, agents traditionally take their commission from the people whom they represent... which, in the case of travel agents, surely means the airlines, cruise companies, insurance companies, etc. But they don't represent me! Other kinds of agents -- theatrical agents, real estate agents -- don't seek to take it from both sides! You can't blame the consumer for thinking that those rules still applied, as, thankfully, they still do for some of the REAL travel agents out there!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

"The cancellation fees are there for everyone to see".... if you look hard enough.

I think a fee of $300 to cancel or change a flight that might only cost a bit more than that in the first place is a very substantial cost to factor into your holiday, and should properly be featured quite conspicuously in any papers connected with the transaction. If Flight Centre points it out to you and ensures you are aware of it, then I would agree with Mel_Traveller... there's no point in the traveller coming back later and saying, "Oh, I knew all about it, but I didn't really believe they'd actually go ahead and do it!"

My point, as someone who dealt several times pre-2015 with Flight Centre, is that the fee was never pointed out to me, and I didn't spend that fifteen minutes going through the contract with a fine-tooth comb to find it for myself. Clearly, I am not alone... but I guess I was luckier than many because I never had to cancel or change. Maybe some of the others who got caught were lulled into a false sense of security by believing that Flight Centre was a good old fashioned travel AGENT. I know that's what I thought, and it wasn't until I found out about the cancellation fees (I found out from a disgruntled customer, not from Flight Centre!) that I finally woke up to the fact that it no longer uses the word "agency" in its name. As I have said all along in this thread, agents traditionally take their commission from the people whom they represent... which, in the case of travel agents, surely means the airlines, cruise companies, insurance companies, etc. But they don't represent me! Other kinds of agents -- theatrical agents, real estate agents -- don't seek to take it from both sides! You can't blame the consumer for thinking that those rules still applied, as, thankfully, they still do for some of the REAL travel agents out there!

A couple of observations... under normal circumstances, most people plan well in advance for a holiday and have no plans to cancel. If they do, many understand the fare is unlikely to be refundable, so the FC fees are a bit of a moot point. Additionally, if you have to cancel your holiday for medical reasons, you would be covered by travel insurance... so again, the $300 probably goes under the radar (at least the customer doesn't feel the impact). Thirdly, if an airline cancels or reshedules, they simply put you on the next available service. So again the cancellation fees don't rear their head.

The current CV-19 turns all that on its head... airlines can't offer another service, travel insurance is relying on exclusions, and airlines are offering full refunds... which are outside FC's scope of thought.

you are correct that FC is an agent, and an agent for the airline. They take their commission from the fare you pay. But they also make some money from ancillary fees. In this case, if FC was complaining about losing money, they should have sought reimbursement from the airline. Of course that would have been in the too hard basket, hence they turned on their clients

 

[travel_bug]

The Australian Federation of Travel Agents has come out in defence of Flight Centre (and other agents), labelling mainstream media reports unbalanced an inaccurate.

"Travel agents deserve to be paid": AFTA stands up against mainstream media reports - Travel Weekly

AFTA has ramped up its efforts to protect travel agents from the "misreporting" of refunds on cancelled trips by mainstream media outlets.

www.travelweekly.com.au

Just wanting to bring this back considering AFTA management seems to be making really great calls as of late - whether it's the above, or that members of the press need a "firm uppercut or slap across the face". (Non paywall link: Travel boss lashes out at Tracy Grimshaw)

Even as someone who recognises that A Current Affair is not top tier journalism, you can't really argue against them presenting the facts in that particular story, being that customers were being charged for refunds, even in circumstances when the supplier had cancelled the service and/or had refunded the TA in full. (STA Travel insider speaks out about refund scandal)