Faulty scales - do we have the problem here?

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markis10

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I noted the following story this morning about a lot of faulty scales being used to charge for excess baggage overseas:

'Faulty scales' at Gatwick Airport blamed for luggage fees | News.com.au

I wonder how long before the issue becomes more widespread here, especially given the changes by QF affecting tickets purchased from Dec 1, given the new national authority for weights and measure does not really talk about scales in the excess luggage context.

Anecdotal evidence suggests the scales here do have a problem, it would make for an interesting small claim case? The Government really needs to look at this and legislate to ensure airport scales are treated like those at supermarkets, I dont think that is the case at present?
 
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The legal issues around the uses of scales and weighing machines for the purposes of trade are well covered in state legislation.

I've previously posted on this issue and the laws in WA which protect against faulty/unverified scales being used to calculate charges:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ion/jq-excess-baggage-25550-2.html#post358950

There's also been discussion of lawsuits around excess baggage here:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....xcess-baggage-class-action-lawsuit-23392.html
 
I'm flying out of LGW next week so will be interesting to see how heavy the bag is according to their scale, especially given it's a LCC.
 
The legal issues around the uses of scales and weighing machines for the purposes of trade are well covered in state legislation.

I've previously posted on this issue and the laws in WA which protect against faulty/unverified scales being used to calculate charges:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ion/jq-excess-baggage-25550-2.html#post358950

There's also been discussion of lawsuits around excess baggage here:
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....xcess-baggage-class-action-lawsuit-23392.html


Sorry but you are out of date, if you read those threads you will find that all the states have rescinded their laws and passed responsibility to the Commonwealth (have a look at my posts).

Western Australian Repealed Regulations beginning with W ...

I am sure you wont be surprised to know that data that was meant to be removed from the government sites in July is still there:

For schools - Consumer Protection - Department of Commerce

PUBLIC NOTICE

As of 1 July 2010 the National Measurement Institute (NMI) will begin managing the national trade measurement system, a part of the Council of Australian Governments reform agenda. As such, information regarding trade measurement will be removed from this website during July 2010. For updates and more information about the transition to a national system of trade measurement visit NMI’s website.


I am well aware of the threads to date, the fact that other countries have issues and we now have a government with very ppoor legislation in place looking after such issues does not leave me with much hope in the short term.
 
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Sorry but you are out of date, if you read those threads you will find that all the states have rescinded their laws and passed responsibility to the Commonwealth (have a look at my posts).
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Markis10, looks like you have a poor understanding of the topic. Allow me, the poor public servant who has to deal with matters legislative day in and day out give you a quick education ;)

If you'd read the first post properly, you would see that it refers to the Trade Measurement Act 2006 (WA), which clearly remains in force.

The antiquated Weights and Measures Act 1915 (WA) and subsidiary regulations to which you incorrectly referred were repealed on 1 Jun 2007, and replaced by the aforementioned WA legislation.

I don't have time to look into how far along each state is on their transition to the national legislation and framework under the COAG reforms, best look this up yourselves if you are interested.

WA's slow movement to the national scheme

There is currently a bill before the state's upper house to amend and repeal various acts to effect the changes forseen under National Measurement Amendment Act 2008 (Cwlth), which as of mid last month is before the Standing Committee on Uniform Legislation and Statutes Review per house standing orders.

Until such a time as the legislation passes, receives the Governor's assent, and either an earlier date for expiry gazetted/proclaimed or reaches 1 July 2013 (known as the transition day within the bill, whichever comes first), the state legislation to which is referred remains in force.

Further, once the bill becomes an act, a provision is made for offences committed prior to the transition day, for which authority to prosecute remains with the state under the aforementioned act, up until 12 months after the offence was deemed to have been committed.

So what are the related offences under the national scheme (if and/or when) it comes into force in your state...

Now, looking forward to the National Measurement Act 1960 (Cwlth). For those of us who love going blind looking at legislation...

Section 18GA deals with verification of measuring instruments used for trade

Measuring instruments used for trade to be verified
Offence requiring fault element
(1) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person uses a measuring instrument for trade; and
(b) the measuring instrument is not verified.
Penalty: 100 penalty units.

Strict liability offence
(2) A person commits an offence if:
(a) the person uses a measuring instrument for trade; and
(b) the measuring instrument is not verified.
Penalty: 20 penalty units.
From memory, a Commonwealth penalty has a monetary value of AUD110.

Strict liability is defined in the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cwlth) as:

(2) If a law that creates an offence provides that strict liability applies to a particular physical element of the offence: (a) there are no fault elements for that physical element; and
(b) the defence of mistake of fact under section 9.2 is available in relation to that physical element.
Inaccurate use of measuring instruments is covered in Sect 18GD of the National Measurement Act. This section provides for monetary penalties between 40 to 200 penalty units for offences of this class.

So there we go, a quick refresher and clarification of offences on the WA and Commonwealth books relating to trade measurement. I hope you hated reading it, as much as I hated writing it. :lol:
 
How often do they need to be re-tested?

Do you think it'd break the checkin staff if we asked to see the verification sticker or documentation when they tried to charge for excess? :)
 
How often do they need to be re-tested?

Do you think it'd break the checkin staff if we asked to see the verification sticker or documentation when they tried to charge for excess? :)

The stickers are visable where the weight is displayed. It is generally done AFAIK by BSM, it has their logo and a date.
 
Thanks for the clarification, from what I understand you are saying the chest beating being down by the National body is not enforceable, at least in WA as per your post, its not unusual to have two public servants with opposite views as seems to be the case by the website link I posted saying its not a WA problem anymore ;););). Thanks for the education, I am a poor humble confused layman :oops:.

Obviously things are a bit slow in happening in WA, but from my limited understanding of the law, current commonwealth legislation takes precedence over state legislation, so repealing laws is just tidying the desk, Comm Law is the presiding law here. Thats the presumption behind my first post, if you look at that law and the requirements for trade measurement in the context of consumer protection - its toothless! I hope someone corrects me on this, however it would appear the changes have eroded consumer protection, not increased them, pink batts anyone?
 
Thanks for the clarification, from what I understand you are saying the chest beating being down by the National body is not enforceable, at least in WA as per your post, its not unusual to have two public servants with opposite views as seems to be the case by the website link I posted saying its not a WA problem anymore ;););). Thanks for the education, I am a poor humble confused layman :oops:.

I think what he's saying is that it is a transitional phase. There is agreement for this to happen but it just has happened yet. There are a few models that can be used in this type of situation. For example, associations law is based on commonwealth legislation but by state legislation that points to the commonwealth act. So the state legislation can still retain enforcement provisions. It sounds like this might be the case from what was described. But no way I have time to read up the legislation.

Another method to achieve national uniformity is to have commonwealth codes of practice that state legislation adopts. This is the model that affects my work and I'm too busy reading codes ;)
 
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I have noticed a definite improvement in the last few months.I always weigh our bags before leaving for the airport and question the agent if there is a marked discrepancy.I have never had a problem with DJ at MCY-always agree with our weights.Especially though in MEL the scales of all airlines appeared to weigh on the heavy side with JQ and Rex the heaviest weights.On my last 3 transits through MEL the weights have agreed with my measurements-maybe the airlines are getting ready for the new system.
 
At the end of the day we are looking forward to scales that are tested and accurate. I am not really concerned if WA want to hold on to their laws or lag behind the other states(As most of the regulations that impact on business come into effect on 1 July 2010, the transition date. State and territory trade measurement legislation and regulation will remain in effect until 1 July 2010), the Commonwealth clearly has the mandate from July 1.

http://www.measurement.gov.au/TradeMeasurement/Business/Documents/Business%20fact%20sheet.pdf

The NMI website is very scant in detail in terms of what consumer protection exists for airlines that charge them weight thats not accurate. They got rid of the department and sacked the inspectors in QLD, I have yet to see what the replacement is, in the meantime people are possibly getting charged when they should not be!
 
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