Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[kpc]

Boeing 737 Max's future cloudy after pilots' bombshell messages

The revelation about the 737 Max couldn't have come at a worse time.

www.smh.com.au

 

[jb747]

We have no context for reading these messages, nor do we have the complete message, so you shouldn't draw too many conclusions. He could well have been talking about the simulator failing to replicate the aircraft...or perhaps the sim was accurately replicating what the aircraft would do, but Boeing didn't realise that that would be the aircraft's behaviour.

You need to be very careful comparing simulator behaviour to an actual aircraft. Sims are programmed to react to known aircraft behaviour, and don't work it out for themselves as you go. So, if you want to know what the aircraft will do in certain circumstances, then the sim will not give you an answer unless it has previously been programmed with a result. As an example, back in 2010, I had a dual air data computer failure in an A380. The sim had been programmed to respond to that by dropping to alternate law 1, with all automatics still available. But, the actual aircraft behaviour was different, with it dropping to alternate law 2, and the loss of all automatics. One had very little effect on workload, whilst the other increased it dramatically.

 

[straitman]

Boeing 737 Max's future cloudy after pilots' bombshell messages

The revelation about the 737 Max couldn't have come at a worse time.

www.smh.com.au

I am not sure that this article, by itself, changes anything.

 

[oz_mark]

I am not sure that this article, by itself, changes anything.

The big thing I see from the revelations is that it has got up the FAAs nose.

 

[straitman]

I am not sure that this article, by itself, changes anything.

They have been at each other's throat for a while but hasn't made the news papers until now.

 

[codash1099]

Some more fallout:

Boeing ousts exec as it touts 'significant progress' on 737 Max fixes

The aviation giant says it conducted a dry run for a certification flight, but there's still no timeline for when the airplane can carry passengers again.

www.cnet.com

 

[AviatorInsight]

The AD requires airframes with 30,000 flight cycles or greater to be inspected within 7 days and airframes with greater than 22,600 cycles to be inspected within the next 1000 flight cycles.

To hopefully put some minds at ease, closer to home, VOK, VON, VOL and VOM all have greater than 30,000 flight cycles. These aircraft were inspected last weekend and no cracks found. The next 3 highest aircraft VOT, VOS and VUA were also inspected with no cracks found. The remainder of the fleet will be inspected in the next few weeks. At this point world wide data shows the latest line number where cracking has been found is 998. Our earliest line number (VOK) is 1359.

Boeing have not yet determined the cause of the cracking...

Update, engineering have now completed all inspections for aircraft with cycles greater than 20,000. No cracks were found during any of the inspections. The engineering department will now be including repeat pickle fork inspections in the NG maintenance program.

On a global basis, 1043 aircraft have been inspected and 51 have been found to have cracks.

 

[jb747]

On a global basis, 1043 aircraft have been inspected and 51 have been found to have cracks.

That's a much higher rate than I would have expected given that it's supposed to be a build and forget component. I wonder what changed to cause the issue.

 

[Quickstatus]

These pickle forks structurally connect the fuselage to the wing spar?
Could hard landings cause such cracks?

 

[jb747]

These pickle forks structurally connect the fuselage to the wing spar?
Could hard landings cause such cracks?

Perhaps, but given that I'm sure all of the 737 models prior to the NG have had their share of hard landings, without pickle issues, I doubt that it's the problem. I'll use my favour word here, but I expect that the pickles are grandfathered from earlier designs. The wings and engines (and so loadings) have changed dramatically over the years.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

These pickle forks structurally connect the fuselage to the wing spar?
Could hard landings cause such cracks?

There's some discussion here: 737NGs have cracked 'pickle forks' after finding several in the jets. - Page 14 - PPRuNe Forums

Potential causes include winglets, but also that the drill holes may not align, or be too small/large.

 

[jb747]

There will be a lot of causes. One that prune is calling the MDC cancer relates to management.

The incidence of issues is amazingly high. It will be interesting to see what happens here.

 

[jb747]

This is an interesting, albeit rather long, article. Food for thought.

Crash Course

How Boeing's managerial revolution created the 737 MAX disaster

newrepublic.com

 

[JohnM]

Yet to read the article, but the first par is common to many organisations these days (universities, albeit in a slightly different way, immediately come to mind). I know the image on the front has been turned, but it sends shivers down my spine...

 

[esseeeayeenn]

This is an interesting, albeit rather long, article. Food for thought.

Crash Course

How Boeing's managerial revolution created the 737 MAX disaster

newrepublic.com

Firmed my resolve to never set foot in a 737-MAX even if they are recertified.

 

[oz_mark]

There was an article around that suggested the the merger of Boeing and MD gave us Boeing in name, and MD in culture.

 

[JohnM]

From the New Republic article: '...it was, after all, the world’s first self-hijacking plane.'

 

[PineappleSkip]

Well this article mentions the cultural impact of the Boeing-MD merger, although no doubt there would be many others also.

Quite a compelling read, This was remarkable...

Boeing had not only outfitted the MAX with a deadly piece of software; it had also taken the additional step of instructing pilots to respond to an erroneous activation of the software by literally attempting the impossible. MCAS alone had taken twelve minutes to down Lion Air 610; in the Ethiopian crash, the MCAS software, overridden by pilots hitting the cutout switches as per Boeing’s instructions, had cut that time line in half.

Skip

 

[I love to travel]

I feel quite ill after that article. If planes are being delivered with cracked windows and loose screws there is a fundamental breakdown in QA. MAX aircraft aside how safe are the newer aircraft really?

 

[jb747]

I feel quite ill after that article. If planes are being delivered with cracked windows and loose screws there is a fundamental breakdown in QA. MAX aircraft aside how safe are the newer aircraft really?

Have a look at the issues surrounding the 767 tanker (a disaster), and the P-8. Whilst I loved the 767/747, and classic 777, I don’t think they make anything that I’d buy these days. All manufacturers have issues, it’s just that Boeing seem to have made issues their goal, as opposed to avoiding them.