Downgraded from Business Class.

[Baysider]

No you wouldn't really have to buy full Y. As with the refund the fare that is available when you purchase isn't considered relevant. On the day of travel downgrades are deemed to be full Y. So if business seats are available on the day of travel the fair and simple method means you should then be deemed to be full Y for upgrade purposes.

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to calculate based on a different Y fare than the one the pax may have paid had they chosen to travel in Y, then the only fair approach is to also apply the full J fare, i.e. refund is the difference between full J and full Y. The airline shouldn't be permitted to just go and arbitrarily choose fare classes that make it the most profit.

 

[opusman]

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to calculate based on a different Y fare than the one the pax may have paid had they chosen to travel in Y, then the only fair approach is to also apply the full J fare, i.e. refund is the difference between full J and full Y. The airline shouldn't be permitted to just go and arbitrarily choose fare classes that make it the most profit.

Since when did QF ever care about fairness, except as a marketing slogan?

 

[medhead]

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to calculate based on a different Y fare than the one the pax may have paid had they chosen to travel in Y, then the only fair approach is to also apply the full J fare, i.e. refund is the difference between full J and full Y. The airline shouldn't be permitted to just go and arbitrarily choose fare classes that make it the most profit.

I should've included a or But that was exactly my point. If qantas are going to arbitrary pick a fare class for downgrade then it is only simple and fair for me to arbitrary pick a fare class, ie full Y, to then get my $1250 upgrade.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The one where it was posted by AFF members who have not worked for Qantas??? I would take it with a grain of salt, as this case proves, status might help to some extent but when you check in is a major factor, as its the case for most airlines.

No the one where the OP quoted directly from a conversation he had at MEL with a QF Supervisor after being downgraded.

 

[markis10]

No the one where the OP quoted directly from a conversation he had a MEL with a QF Supervisor after being downgraded.

Its the same one, again no credence IMHO.

 

[JohnK]

You can't have it both ways. If you are going to calculate based on a different Y fare than the one the pax may have paid had they chosen to travel in Y, then the only fair approach is to also apply the full J fare, i.e. refund is the difference between full J and full Y. The airline shouldn't be permitted to just go and arbitrarily choose fare classes that make it the most profit.

Qantas is extremely cheeky. I guess all airlines are the same.

Use the full economy airfare available on the day of travel and apply that against the cheap business class airfare purchased ~12 months ago to determine the refund for a downgrade.

And as I mentioned earlier in the thread it is quite possible to pay less for a business class airfare than full economy airfare so in the situation of a downgrade to economy you will need to pay more money to sit in economy.

Ludicrous.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Its the same one, again no credence IMHO.

As much credence as this thread IMHO

 

[roncritch]

so many humble people here!! lol

 

[BD1959]

Its the same one, again no credence IMHO.

Agree, it does not lend credence to the *policy* - it may lend credence to the possibility of LA staff acting outside of that policy. We've had no word from QF (and I'm NOT attacking RR!!) as to how they decide on those to be forcibly downgraded/offloaded.

If it *is* based purely on seq nbr then it would be very interesting to know what would happen should a CL be last to check-in and there is a need to down-grade/offer offload; I think I can guess!

Regards,

BD

 

[BAM1748]

No, I doubt they were and I don't think their status was correctly considered in the algorithm for downgrading them.

I don't mind giving credit where it is due, however I don't think it is anything near as sophisticated as an algorithm.

Matt

 

[markis10]

Agree, it does not lend credence to the *policy* - it may lend credence to the possibility of LA staff acting outside of that policy. We've had no word from QF (and I'm NOT attacking RR!!) as to how they decide on those to be forcibly downgraded/offloaded.

If it *is* based purely on seq nbr then it would be very interesting to know what would happen should a CL be last to check-in and there is a need to down-grade/offer offload; I think I can guess!

Regards,

BD

Altea does not give downgrading rights to airport gate staff as a rule IIRC, I believe the decisions are made away from the airport, so any excuses given by said staff are likely to be unrelated to what happened. It's also possible that the downgrading officer may liaise with gate staff at decision time, given they are the ones who will no doubt be bearing the brunt of the passengers feelings. We do have a number if members with intricate knowledge but they may feel it's a bit to topical to comment on what normally happens, or perhaps commercially sensitive and thus banned from being involved.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I don't mind giving credit where it is due, however I don't think it is anything near as sophisticated as an algorithm.

Matt

Allow me a little poetic licence

 

[BD1959]

Altea does not give downgrading rights to airport gate staff as a rule IIRC, I believe the decisions are made away from the airport, so any excuses given by said staff are likely to be unrelated to what happened. It's also possible that the downgrading officer may liaise with gate staff at decision time, given they are the ones who will no doubt be bearing the brunt of the passengers feelings. We do have a number if members with intricate knowledge but they may feel it's a bit to topical to comment on what normally happens, or perhaps commercially sensitive and thus banned from being involved.

Understand completely what you're saying markis10 - including the possibility of those "in the know" to explain in detail given it may be at odds with what happened in this case.

However, I still contend that if it is in the realms of possibility that - under the T&Cs of the ticket - I may be downgraded then surely it is also my right (under the same contract) to understand *why* I may be chosen over someone else. Afterall, if it is in the terms that I may be denied boarding if I haven't checked-in by a certain time, then I expect the airline to publish the time by which I *must* check-in to avoid such a situation. If these were actually published, then those in the know would not feel compromised at times such as this and we would ALL be (or should that be MOSTLY) in agreement as to whether QF were correct to treat SGs with such a dismissive attitude (actual "refund amount" notwithstanding - I see this as a totally separate issue).

Regards,

BD

 

[Reggie]

I'm not intending to reread this entire thread, (I have read it once) however can anyone recall if the effected pax had their QFF numbers in their booking? It is one thing to be QFFSG, it's another to actually have it listed on a TA booked flight.

 

[QF WP]

Reggie, you simply need to read each of the posts from EmilyP in this thread (handy search done here). Most likely to be noted in one of them...

 

[Pushka]

Given that EmilyP mentioned that an amount of Frequent Flyer points were to be given to the accounts I'd dare say their FF numbers were in the booking.

 

[EmilyP]

Hi All,

Please find below Qantas' response to my parent's complaint (names and booking numbers removed):

Dear Mr and Mrs xx_

Thank you again for taking the time to discuss your experience with your booking xx_X. As you are aware Alan, Leigh and Lesley have asked me to get back to you directly.

I was extremely disappointed, and quite frankly embarrassed, to hear of the situation that unfolded in LA, and of the way we handled it. We can and should have done much better and I'm very sorry that we didn't. I have followed up with all the people involved in the situation in some detail and we have flagged a number of gaps which we will work to resolve. That, however, doesn’t make up for a flight experience that was ruined for you both.

Having spoken to you both, to say we’re sorry, further to the $700 that was given Mr XX from our Los Angeles airport staff, I arranged as a goodwill gesture a credit of 50,000 points to your membership, as well as a $500 Qantas travel voucher. As you are aware you also received a $1200 downgrade refund from your travel agent .

We have spent considerable time reviewing your issues raised and feel that we have responded appropriately. As such, we are unable to further comment on these matters or offer any additional gestures and trust this confirms our final position on the matter.

I am sorry to hear that you were not satisfied with our goodwill gesture and I apologise again if you feel that Qantas’ service was not of the standard that you expected.

Once again, my sincere apologies.

Best regards,


I would like to reiterate the following:

- The $700 given to my father at LAX was described by LAX staff as a 'downgrade inconvenience compensation' NOT a fare refund. This $700 was given to every passenger that was downgraded, even the ones that chose to fly Business the next day
- the FF points and voucher were given to my father as a goodwill gesture as a result of his complaint over their treatment by QF at LAX.
- the $1250 was the fare refund QF considered 'fair' even though it has left my parents out of pocket


Next steps are to utilise some of the excellent advice and contacts I have received via PM from members here and take action.

I think the Australian public need to know that Qantas can effectively steal money from you. I do consider this theft as they did not provide what my parents paid for.

I have an O/S trip booked with Qantas next year. It will be my last with QF I can assure you. Luckily my workplace gave Qantas the boot earlier this year as their preferred carrier, so I don't have to fly them for work at all.

Feel free to PM me at any time,
Emily P

 

[N860CR]

How utterly disgusting and a total embarrassment. I must say I'm very glad that I have ditched Qantas after receiving similar (although not as awful) treatment.

Please encourage your parents to escalate, even to small claims court initially. Qantas needs to realise this sort of behavior isn't ok.

With all of the people behind the scenes handling this issue, I'm sure the actual cost of time and resources outweighs the refund the traveling party should have been given.

 

[Ansett]

So In simple and fairer terms Qantas are saying, Now look we have looked at this again coz you are being a pain and those Mongrels on AFF are stirring things up. So here it is again this is all you will get now stop hassling and get over it...

Think your selves privileged to have flown on Qantas in the first place and you will abide by our interpretation of what is fairer.........


Oh and don't forget the extra 50,000 points we gave you that you will never be able to redeem as we don't have enough seats oh and when you book your flight from XX- LAX will be in Y even if you do Book J..... Suck it up suckersssssss......

 

[Baysider]

Hi All,
Having spoken to you both, to say we’re sorry, further to the $700 that was given Mr XX from our Los Angeles airport staff, I arranged as a goodwill gesture a credit of 50,000 points to your membership, as well as a $500 Qantas travel voucher. As you are aware you also received a $1200 downgrade refund from your travel agent .

An incredibly snide act crediting 50,000 points. Annoy somebody that much that you know they will not travel with you again, and give them points that you know they won't convert to travel. Qantas, you are at rock bottom and digging furiously.