Domestic Security Body Scanners - Bad for Women?

[Drummer]

Is the new scanning tech in QF D terminal meant to demean women and subject them to unwanted and unwarranted attention?
It is if you ask the women working for SNP/Janus doing the post-scan searches. Just a week ago my partner (female early 50s, CEO) after not travelling for the last two months encountered this new body scan technology. The initial scan showed RED across her torso and lady-bits (front and back) on a 'delightful' public display.
Of course, the situation was not helped by a level of brusqueness from the security 'manager' and multiple half-shouted instructions, and her flight being on last call.
She was taken to a relatively private room, told to remove her outer garments (winter...) for a pat-down and then instructed to rub her genital area (outside her garments) and have her hands wanded for an explosives check. The process left her shaken and more than a little reluctant to return - which, she must on a weekly basis.
More so, she was instructed to sign a rights waiver, allowing the company to do this and no alternative was offered.
Interestingly the two women whom were performing these tasks had empathy and were more than reluctant to make a woman of early middle-age do these tests. In fact they related to her that with this new scanning tech, about 60-70% of their searches now are women of a certain age. Women who broadly speaking are pre/peri/post-menopausal (who would want to pick a fight with them?) and are carrying a little extra weight.
I'm shocked and appalled. She remains somewhat traumatised and disbelieving that it happened and the manner in which this search was conducted.
Anyone else aware of this happening?

 

[justinbrett]

Is the new scanning tech in QF D terminal meant to demean women and subject them to unwanted and unwarranted attention?
It is if you ask the women working for SNP/Janus doing the post-scan searches. Just a week ago my partner (female early 50s, CEO) after not travelling for the last two months encountered this new body scan technology. The initial scan showed RED across her torso and lady-bits (front and back) on a 'delightful' public display.
Of course, the situation was not helped by a level of brusqueness from the security 'manager' and multiple half-shouted instructions, and her flight being on last call.
She was taken to a relatively private room, told to remove her outer garments (winter...) for a pat-down and then instructed to rub her genital area (outside her garments) and have her hands wanded for an explosives check. The process left her shaken and more than a little reluctant to return - which, she must on a weekly basis.
More so, she was instructed to sign a rights waiver, allowing the company to do this and no alternative was offered.
Interestingly the two women whom were performing these tasks had empathy and were more than reluctant to make a woman of early middle-age do these tests. In fact they related to her that with this new scanning tech, about 60-70% of their searches now are women of a certain age. Women who broadly speaking are pre/peri/post-menopausal (who would want to pick a fight with them?) and are carrying a little extra weight.
I'm shocked and appalled. She remains somewhat traumatised and disbelieving that it happened and the manner in which this search was conducted.
Anyone else aware of this happening?View attachment 336460

It's not gender specific.

My crotch sets it off probably 50% of the time. Once that happened to me, and the next two guys behind me. I don't think the staff get any enjoyment from touching up strangers.

You get the option of going to a private room. If you decline they don't ask you to sign anything and it's over in about 5 seconds.

 

[Drummer]

It's not gender specific.

My crotch sets it off probably 50% of the time. Once that happened to me, and the next two guys behind me. I don't think the staff get any enjoyment from touching up strangers.

You get the option of going to a private room. If you decline they don't ask you to sign anything and it's over in about 5 seconds.

It's not 'intended' to be gender specific. It's a consequence. They may not have asked you to sign something. If you have one, ask your female partner if it's fine.

 

[justinbrett]

It's not 'intended' to be gender specific. It's a consequence. They may not have asked you to sign something. If you have one, ask your female partner if it's fine.

I fail to see the difference - are you saying it's OK for men's private areas to be searched but not women? If so, that's a pretty sexist statement.

I've set it off countless times in Australia and overseas (mainly US) and it's all quite routine. You always get the option of a private search but I always decline. I've never heard of a waiver of rights, perhaps that happens if you elect for a private search, but certainly not if you remain in the public area.

 

[Pushka]

It's not 'intended' to be gender specific. It's a consequence. They may not have asked you to sign something. If you have one, ask your female partner if it's fine.

Sounds awful to me. I throw off multiple spots too but thankfully a wand over is all I've experienced. On the other hand my male partner would feel rather discomforted about such a search as described in the first post. So not just a female thing as long as it was a female in charge. I've had worse. Split airport security - I'm talking about you!

 

[randompunter]

OTT security theatre . You'd think if they have an unusually high rate of false positives on a certain demographic (eg. middle-aged women) they could re-calibrate or adjust the sensitivity for those particular body shapes. Off topic - I've also been having plenty of fun with the newer bag CT scanners in some regional airports - I travel with lots of electronics and these machines/operators often can't discriminate what's in a big pile of PCBs/wires/batteries. I try and take out my items to put through on trays and get barked at to put them back in my bag. Then I inevitably have to wait while they stare for ages at the mess of orange/red lumps on the screen, give up, manually open the bag on the other end, decant all the items onto trays and re-scan. So frustrating!

 

[Lynda2475]

Same scanners at PER yesterday 3/4 of our party needed an extra check:

1. Randomly my left shoulder was flagged red. Asked if I would agreed to a wand and a pat down (could go to a private room if I wanted) as it was a female staffer I said go ahead right there, no issues, but I was also asked to touch my shoulder and have hands swabbed. When I looked in mirror on way up the escalators i saw my knit top was bunched up a bit on shoulder that side (probably from carrying back pack)

2. My elderly mother's right elbow flagged red, again agreed to pull up her sleeve, the culprit was a tissue stuffed up her sleeve. My mum is very under weight about 42kgs so not just overweight middle aged women.

3. My elderly father, we thought initially it was his knee replacement, but concern was the bulk of loose fabric around the front and fly of his jeans (he recently lost weight and as his gut has reduced he hasn't bought a smaller size so much gathering of fabric). He also was asked to touch his fly and then have hands swabbed.

Something is wrong with the config/calibration that any doubling up of fabric/bulk that isnt fat gets flagged as suspicious. Note none of us had issues in SYD outbound (same scanner types\) all wearing thinner tighter fitting clothing.

Mind you with the older metal detector types, the underwire in my sizeable bra would often set off a beep at MEL (but never in SYD) and also at some overseas destinations. Sensitivity seems different in different airports.

They will hopefully get better at tunning the scanners and training staff over time.

In the mean time avoid wearing anything too loose or thick.

 

[oz_mark]

Those machines seem to pick on my left shoulder. I have no idea why.

 

[justinbrett]

Asked if I would agreed to a wand and a pat down (could go to a private room if I wanted) as it was a female staffer I said go ahead right there, no issues,

It is only ever done by a staff member of the same sex.

You're on the money about lose clothes though.

 

[flyingfan]

I set this off repeatedly and had to go into a private room (in the public area wasn’t an option), and wait for that tiny room to be vacated by another poor passenger being similarly patted down, while standing without my shoes and not being allowed to touch my bags. Had to sign a form and was asked to put my hand down my pants for swabbing.

I felt like the staff knew the new system was throwing up a lot of false positives and they knew it would be a waste of time (and annoy pax).

 

[Lynda2475]

It is only ever done by a staff member of the same sex.

The staffer who wanded my Mum's arm and asked her to pull up her sleeve was actually male, but he didn't actually touch her. I had to go over as Mum is very hard of hearing and has early dementia so i had to explain to her why she was pulled aside and make sure she didn't freak out.

Mind you I also had to disobey the guy who directed me and my parents to different screening lanes, as I needed to go through same one as them in case there were issues - should have been obvious by way I was holding my Mums hand that she needed supervision/help.

If you can leave watch, shoes and jewellery on for the scan Im not sure why belts still need removing. The guy who went ahead of my Dad pants fell down mid scan, everyone saw his tighty whities.

 

[Drummer]

The staffer who wanded my Mum's arm and asked her to pull up her sleeve was actually male, but he didn't actually touch her. I had to go over as Mum is very hard of hearing and has early dementia so i had to explain to her why she was pulled aside and make sure she didn't freak out.

Mind you I also had to disobey the guy who directed me and my parents to different screening lanes, as I needed to go through same one as them in case there were issues - should have been obvious by way I was holding my Mums hand that she needed supervision/help.

I think everyone will have different experiences and I agree with your posit that more training will help.

 

[MathNerd]

View attachment 336460

Is the person in charge of this scanner named Hugh? Because he must be a Hugh Janus.

 

[justinbrett]

The staffer who wanted my Mum's arm and asked her to pull up her sleeve was male, but he didnt touch her. I had to go over as Mum is very hard of hearing and has early dementia so i had to explain to her why she was pulled aside.

Mind you I also had to disobey the guy who directed me and my parents to different screening gates, as I needed to go through same one as them in case there were issues - should have been obvious by way I was holding my Mums hand that she needed supervision.

Obviously I was speaking only if they actually search ("frisk") you.

From the government website:

Your rights at the screening point​

Screening is compulsory for all travellers. When you enter a screening point, you are agreeing to each screening procedure. Where you need a frisk search, you will be asked for your consent to this process. If you consent to the frisk search, you will be offered the option of having it conducted in a private room. A screening officer of the same gender will conduct the frisk search. They must ensure that the frisk search is conducted in a way that preserves dignity and treats all travellers equally.
You have the right to refuse any screening process. If you refuse you will not be permitted to continue to the gate or board your flight.
If you feel you have experienced an inappropriate screening process at a security checkpoint, you can ask to speak with a supervisor at the checkpoint. You can also lodge a complaint with the airport or you can submit your concern to the Department online.

 

[Lynda2475]

Obviously I was speaking only if they actually search ("frisk") you.

Yeah I realise that.

The most invasive search I had was on entry to Bolivia, female customs agent touched my breasts without warning and made me take my hair down it was up in a bun, then proceeded to push her thumb through every one of the hand made chocolates Id bought in Peru (professionally packaged). When she tried to give me the chocolates back i said you can bin them, they were no longer fit for consumption or gifting. I have to laugh because Bolivia is a country people smuggle drugs out of not into.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've set it off countless times in Australia and overseas (mainly US) and it's all quite routine. You always get the option of a private search but I always decline. I've never heard of a waiver of rights, perhaps that happens if you elect for a private search, but certainly not if you remain in the public area.

People here are describing having to rub their crotch, variously outside their clothes or down their pants in the private room and then be explosive swabbed.# Are you saying this happens to you, and you elect to have it done by the scanner?

If not, you are talking about different experiences.

Overall, the experiences being described are simply grotesque and shouldn't be dismissed as 'just the usual'.

#If a guy asked me to do this, I think I'd have to ask him to demonstrate on himself, so I did it correctly.

 

[Himeno]

It is only ever done by a staff member of the same sex.

No, it is done by a staff member of the gender they assume you to be.

 

[justinbrett]

People here are describing having to rub their crotch, variously outside their clothes or down their pants in the private room and then be explosive swabbed.# Are you saying this happens to you, and you elect to have it done by the scanner?

If not, you are talking about different experiences.

Overall, the experiences being described are simply grotesque and shouldn't be dismissed as 'just the usual'.

#If a guy asked me to do this, I think I'd have to ask him to demonstrate on himself, so I did it correctly.

As stated I've always declined the private search, but yes it's a back of the hands sweep first in a downwards direction and then across from left to right, across the entire front of my shorts/trousers from waist to just above the knees.

You don't elect for the scanner, you do the scanner first, and then the choice is either a private or public frisk.

In my case I wasn't asked to self-rub and then be swabbed, they swabbed my crotch directly.

I don't know what happens if you select the private search. The OP comment referred to the "scanning tech" targeting women, which I can absolutely say is not true. It doesn't seem to discriminate at all.

 

[Drummer]

I fail to see the difference - are you saying it's OK for men's private areas to be searched but not women? If so, that's a pretty sexist statement.

I've set it off countless times in Australia and overseas (mainly US) and it's all quite routine. You always get the option of a private search but I always decline. I've never heard of a waiver of rights, perhaps that happens if you elect for a private search, but certainly not if you remain in the public area.

I never said that it’s ok to violate blokes. It appears that if it never happens to you, then it is either not a problem or it doesn’t exist. What a privileged life that must be! I simply relayed the story of something that did, and does happen, and asked if anyone else has come up against it. Thanks for your input.

 

[RooFlyer]

The OP comment referred to the "scanning tech" targeting women, which I can absolutely say is not true. It doesn't seem to discriminate at all.

Thanks - understand the rest of your post.

In theory it may not 'discriminate', but unless you've sat there and counted the proportion of results that result in these machines in operation at QD SYDd, then you might like to take the OP's word as to what the staff at the testing point said.

In fact they related to her that with this new scanning tech, about 60-70% of their searches now are women of a certain age.

You'd hope its not the intention to have such a result, but on the evidence we have, that's the result.

When you've done the study as to the results, come back and let us know.