Does WP guest for Qantas F lounge need to be on same flight?

[durbrain]

Hi,

I have a friend who I want to guest into the Syd international F lounge. I'm WP. I'm on a QF flight, but guest is CX.

The lounge eligibility rules on the QF website (which I can't link to since my post count is too low) seems to imply that WP can bring in one guest that 'must be travelling with the member on the same flight', however OWE can bring in one guest who can be 'travelling on a oneworld operated and marketed flight'.

The latter is less restrictive than the former, but every WP is a OWE so the former restriction doesn't make sense? Will I be able to guest in my friend travelling on a different OW flight?

Thanks!

 

[incumbent]

In this sort of situation, OWE usually means "OWE earned other than via QF". Same sort of thing happens in the US with AA. So in theory, no Flounging for your friend.

 

[hutch]

Hi,

I have a friend who I want to guest into the Syd international F lounge. I'm WP. I'm on a QF flight, but guest is CX.

The lounge eligibility rules on the QF website (which I can't link to since my post count is too low) seems to imply that WP can bring in one guest that 'must be travelling with the member on the same flight', however OWE can bring in one guest who can be 'travelling on a oneworld operated and marketed flight'.

The latter is less restrictive than the former, but every WP is a OWE so the former restriction doesn't make sense? Will I be able to guest in my friend travelling on a different OW flight?

Thanks!

You are quite right with the conditions not being clear. Interesting! You certainly have a case for arguing your point... but it's hard to say what the outcome will be on the day.

Also curious to see whether others have had success in similar circumstances?

 

[kreuky]

I have managed to guest in someone not on the same flight, but their flight was also a QF flight, not CX. Surprised they let them in without question as I was expecting to get rejected.

 

[serfty]

In this sort of situation, OWE usually means "OWE earned other than via QF". Same sort of thing happens in the US with AA. So in theory, no Flounging for your friend.

This is correct - Qantas can do what they want with their own members in their own lounges but must adhere to oneworld agreements in relation to members of other oneworld airlines.

Having posted that, the few times I have wished to guest so as a WP, I have not been denied.

YMMV

 

[RichardMEL]

If the friend is WP/OWE then obviously no problem.

If they are not Emerald, then there may be problems.

A few weeks back I was flying to AKL on QF coded EK flight (yes, I know not oneworld operated, but obviously QF P1) randomaly met friend (OWS/Gold) in security and offered to try and guest into F lounge. He was flying CX to HKG. F lounge agent ummed and aah'd but in the end said no since different flights. Not sure if I was flying on QF metal would have made any difference. We didn't push the issue though it would have been nice, and Flounge (MEL) was pretty quiet.

I feel the intent obviously is for a guest to be travelling on same flight - it would be reasonably unusual I'd say for differing flights. QF probably don't consider the case of a friend travelling on another flight to be significant enough to explicitly state as a rule for WP's, though OWE rule seems to allow it.

It doesn't make much sense that the rules for a QF WP seem more restrictive than for OWE, since WP is OWE also. I'd certainly argue for the less restrictive interpretation, but heck the F lounge agents can just deny on space available basis or however they like. I think it's really at their discretion.

 

[JohnK]

The number of times I have guested into First Lounge the boarding pass/flight details of guest have been thoroughly checked.

In saying that there are a number of reports to suggest they will occasionally bend the rules or may not check thoroughly on the day. Does not hurt to ask. They can only say no.

 

[Kangol]

A few weeks back I was flying to AKL on QF coded EK flight (yes, I know not oneworld operated, but obviously QF P1) randomaly met friend (OWS/Gold) in security and offered to try and guest into F lounge. He was flying CX to HKG. F lounge agent ummed and aah'd but in the end said no since different flights. Not sure if I was flying on QF metal would have made any difference. We didn't push the issue though it would have been nice, and Flounge (MEL) was pretty quiet.

...

It doesn't make much sense that the rules for a QF WP seem more restrictive than for OWE, since WP is OWE also. I'd certainly argue for the less restrictive interpretation, but heck the F lounge agents can just deny on space available basis or however they like. I think it's really at their discretion.

According to the rules, if you were flying on QF metal on that day, it would make no difference because both of you must be on the same flight.

In the eyes of QF, WP = WP and not OWE.
In the eyes of any OW airline except QF, WP = OWE.

This is pretty clear, but on the odd occasion you may have a dragon break the rules and let your guest in.

 

[durbrain]

Thanks. Seems situation is not so clear. Guess I'm not asking to 'bend the rules'. Fact is WP is OWE - and promoted as such by Qantas. So I don't think it's really up to their 'interpretation' - don't all OW airlines need to obey the same rules as part of the alliance agreement?

Anyways - I'll see how it does on the day.

 

[mannej]

Thanks. Seems situation is not so clear. Guess I'm not asking to 'bend the rules'. Fact is WP is OWE - and promoted as such by Qantas. So I don't think it's really up to their 'interpretation' - don't all OW airlines need to obey the same rules as part of the alliance agreement?

Anyways - I'll see how it does on the day.

No, the situation is dead clear, and IMO you are trying to read into it to make it unclear.

By asking you are indeed asking for the rules to be bent, but others have stated YMMV.

 

[durbrain]

No, the situation is dead clear, and IMO you are trying to read into it to make it unclear.

By asking you are indeed asking for the rules to be bent, but others have stated YMMV.

Disagree. OWE is entitled to bring a guest in on any oneworld flight. So hardly 'dead clear'.

The point of my question was to ask if anybody had successfully or unsuccessfully done the above. Not asking for rules to be bent but I suspect that Qantas interprets their rules in the manner you describe. Which penalises their own customers over all other alliance members...

But unless I'm mistaken, I am both WP and OWE and there is no official 'rule' stating that the former takes precedence over the latter.

 

[straitman]

Disagree. OWE is entitled to bring a guest in on any oneworld flight. So hardly 'dead clear'.

The point of my question was to ask if anybody had successfully or unsuccessfully done the above. Not asking for rules to be bent but I suspect that Qantas interprets their rules in the manner you describe. Which penalises their own customers over all other alliance members...

But unless I'm mistaken, I am both WP and OWE and there is no official 'rule' stating that the former takes precedence over the latter.

Whilst I respect your logic I think you will be disappointed.

Maybe you could/should ring the lounge in advance and get a ruling ahead of time.

 

[JohnK]

Thanks. Seems situation is not so clear. Guess I'm not asking to 'bend the rules'. Fact is WP is OWE - and promoted as such by Qantas. So I don't think it's really up to their 'interpretation' - don't all OW airlines need to obey the same rules as part of the alliance agreement?

Anyways - I'll see how it does on the day.

Not really any different to American Airlines not allowing their elites domestic lounge access unless flying was part of an international itinerary.

All Qantas has to do is honour guesting rights of other Oneworld elites.

 

[medhead]

Disagree. OWE is entitled to bring a guest in on any oneworld flight. So hardly 'dead clear'.

The point of my question was to ask if anybody had successfully or unsuccessfully done the above. Not asking for rules to be bent but I suspect that Qantas interprets their rules in the manner you describe. Which penalises their own customers over all other alliance members...

But unless I'm mistaken, I am both WP and OWE and there is no official 'rule' stating that the former takes precedence over the latter.

The problem is you're a Qantas Platinum first. In a Qantas lounge Qantas treat you as a Qantas platinum. Qantas have different rules for Qantas platinum than they have for OWE. There is zero requirement for Qantas to treat you as a OWE. In fact as far as Qantas is concerned you are not a OWE you are a Qantas Platinum. The rules are dead clear.

Having said that, you never know your luck. I would suggest being as open as possible in making your request for special consideration.

 

[durbrain]

Not really any different to American Airlines not allowing their elites domestic lounge access unless flying was part of an international itinerary.

All Qantas has to do is honour guesting rights of other Oneworld elites.

The difference is that AA's webpage and rules have asterisks in the section on OW enrtitlements specifically excluding domestic lounges and Qantas business domestic lounges access. There is no such exclusion on Qantas' site. You can meet multiple eligibility criteria for lounges and in all other cases are free to choose the greatest entitlement (eg a OWS flying F can choose the F lounge). But it seems that there is an assumption that QF FF status trumps OW status, though nobody can specifically point to a rule stating such.

In any case I will let you know next week how it goes.

 

[incumbent]

The difference is that AA's webpage and rules have asterisks in the section on OW enrtitlements specifically excluding domestic lounges and Qantas business domestic lounges access. There is no such exclusion on Qantas' site. You can meet multiple eligibility criteria for lounges and in all other cases are free to choose the greatest entitlement (eg a OWS flying F can choose the F lounge). But it seems that there is an assumption that QF FF status trumps OW status, though nobody can specifically point to a rule stating such.

In any case I will let you know next week how it goes.

There really isn't any dispute as to the rules, several people have already told you how they're interpreted.

Whether they're prepared to make an exception for you or not is another matter.

 

[hutch]

Having read through this all, the sentiment "you're qantas first, before oneworld" is probably right.

However, QF should probably change eligibility header to "Oneworld status exc QFF members". No room for debate then.

 

[Kangol]

Thanks. Seems situation is not so clear. Guess I'm not asking to 'bend the rules'. Fact is WP is OWE - and promoted as such by Qantas. So I don't think it's really up to their 'interpretation' - don't all OW airlines need to obey the same rules as part of the alliance agreement?

The alliance agreement is between different airlines and their "allied" FF programs, not between an airline and its own FF program. There is a difference between the airline and its FF program. This is what you are failing to understand.
Yes, QFF WP is OWE, only when recognised by another OW airline other than QF. QF does not recognise its own QFF elites as OW members.

QF is not in an alliance with itself. The alliance was formed to bring together different carriers.

As for bending the rules, there is no bending. The rule is either broken or not broken. As has been shown here multiple times, there are many lounge attendants who simply do not know the rules and cannot do their job properly. That does not mean the rule does not exist.

The difference is that AA's webpage and rules have asterisks in the section on OW enrtitlements specifically excluding domestic lounges and Qantas business domestic lounges access. There is no such exclusion on Qantas' site. You can meet multiple eligibility criteria for lounges and in all other cases are free to choose the greatest entitlement (eg a OWS flying F can choose the F lounge). But it seems that there is an assumption that QF FF status trumps OW status, though nobody can specifically point to a rule stating such.

The AA website clearly states that their own elites (EXP/PLT) do not have access to lounges when on domestic itineraries, regardless of their OW status as recognised by OW airlines other than AA.

The question about QFF status vs OW status and which is trumped is the wrong question. There is no published rule because it is a non issue. OW status = that of the FF program of a different OW airline to your own.

Hopefully the next person who is in a similar situation will not be misled by your purported misinformation. This is the reason why corrections to your errors are being made.
I'd be interested to see if you can provide some form of evidence/documentation supporting your allegation.

If you really want to contribute to the community, when you get to the lounge with your friend, ask to speak with the lounge manager and ask him or her if a QFF WP is recognised as an OWE by QF. A yes or no answer. Then report back. Just like you, I really would like to know the truth. Looks like you are the only person who can provide it. I would ask but my next F lounge visit is not for many weeks.

 

[mannej]

The difference is that AA's webpage and rules have asterisks in the section on OW enrtitlements specifically excluding domestic lounges and Qantas business domestic lounges access. There is no such exclusion on Qantas' site. You can meet multiple eligibility criteria for lounges and in all other cases are free to choose the greatest entitlement (eg a OWS flying F can choose the F lounge). But it seems that there is an assumption that QF FF status trumps OW status, though nobody can specifically point to a rule stating such.

In any case I will let you know next week how it goes.

The SYD F-Lounge site differentiates access rules for QF WP and OWE, a fairly good indicator that they differ.

Lounge Locations | Australia | Sydney International | International First




With respect, you will be asking the rules to be bent as a QF WP asking for a guest on a different flight. If it happens or not depends on the leniency of the lounge staff on the day. Any argument to the OWE access entitlements won't help IMO.

 

[durbrain]

The alliance agreement is between different airlines and their "allied" FF programs, not between an airline and its own FF program. There is a difference between the airline and its FF program. This is what you are failing to understand.
Yes, QFF WP is OWE, only when recognised by another OW airline other than QF. QF does not recognise its own QFF elites as OW members.

QF is not in an alliance with itself. The alliance was formed to bring together different carriers.


The question about QFF status vs OW status and which is trumped is the wrong question. There is no published rule because it is a non issue. OW status = that of the FF program of a different OW airline to your own.

Hopefully the next person who is in a similar situation will not be misled by your purported misinformation. This is the reason why corrections to your errors are being made.

I have no doubt that Qantas' probable intent is as you describe. However, I am not 'purporting' anything. I simply asked whether anybody has tried to apply the listed rules as stated. It appears the majority on here agree that 'QFF trumps OW' or 'OW only applies when travelling on other airlines'. This is stated as fact, yet nobody can provide any hard evidence for this other than to say "it just is". In fact, the "Lounge access" section of the Oneworld website (which I can't link to again) specifically says "Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use lounges offered by oneworld airlines when departing on any flight marketed and operated by any oneworld member airline, regardless of cabin class being flown (exceptions are noted below)." There is NO mention of exceptions for accessing lounges with one's 'home program'. There is no mention of FF programs being allowed to disregard their own members' OW status. In addition, there are 4 exceptions which include the AAdvantage domestic exception that everyone keeps referring to - the AAdvantage exception is therefore PART of the listed Oneworld rules.

It appears the 'Qantas FF before OW' 'rule' is an assumption outside of the Oneworld rules that Qantas hopes will go unnoticed. I accept the majority are right in that, that's how Qantas will interpret it. I am not sure why QF FF feel the need to discriminate against their own members; Cathay and other OW members do not do this.

As I said, my friend will be there at a similar time to me. I will give it a shot and see what happens and will let you know. If it fails we will go to the coughpy AMEX lounge and be bitter.