Denied seat recline on long haul

[Must...Fly!]

You don't know whether your coming or going. On one hand you are trying to have a crack at me for my stance on people who recline, then in the next breath you are saying you don't like it yourself.

Quote the rest of my post.

For your convenience.

But I cannot ask someone to raise their seat for my comfort. They have their own comfort to worry about especially on a long haul or night flight. If I wanted space I could buy PE, J or F. I can't afford it but that is my problem, not theirs.

I am always cautious about reclining because I know how inconvenient it is when someone reclines on me.

I don't like it. But it doesn't mean I have to make another persons flight miserable like some here (including yourself) are suggesting by acting like a child who was told they can't have a chocolate bar.

 

[Mal Ware]

I don't like it. But it doesn't mean I have to make another persons flight miserable like some here (including yourself) are suggesting by acting like a child who was told they can't have a chocolate bar.

So in other words you don't like it but are to weak/gutless to actually do anything about it. Typical.

You get what you deserve then, you can poke fun at me because I actually do something about it, or you can timidly sit there and wish it wasn't happening and then say how you don't like it. Sit back and do nothing and complain on an internet forum or actually do something about it......hmmm not really a tough choice for me.

 

[Must...Fly!]

So in other words you don't like it but are to weak/gutless to actually do anything about it. Typical.

You get what you deserve then, you can poke fun at me because I actually do something about it, or you can timidly sit there and wish it wasn't happening and then say how you don't like it. Sit back and do nothing and complain on an internet forum or actually do something about it......hmmm not really a tough choice for me.

What on earth??

I don't like it but I respect others enough to allow them to make use of the features of the aircraft at their disposal to maximise their comfort.

If I wanted guaranteed space, I'd buy J or F. I can't afford that, so I make do with Economy. I don't buy Y then act up like a child told no at the toy store because the person in front reclines their seat.

 

[tuapekastar]

I'll reiterate my opinion that allowed/not allowed has nothing to do with this, in fact it is a pretty weak argument. The key question is about mutual consideration and arrangement. Sure the seat can recline and it can be used, but a question like this should ideally be settled by mutual agreement by either verbal or non verbal means. The passenger in front might decide that they can handle only using half a recline and that also benefits the person behind - allows them to accept the situation. What is the key issue is achieving the (cringe worthy) win-win. What is technically possible has very little to do with that. The view that the seat reclines so I'm therefore entitled is equally part of the problem, not the solution.
.

Why do you think this is a weak argument?

 

[eastwest101]

If you do the math, I think to give 34" pitch instead of 31" you remove a row, and then can offer the extra pitch on 10 rows. So remove one row you need to be able to surcharge 1/10th of the average Y fare (minus marginal catering and fuel costs) to recoup that. So SYD-MEL say, $20. Australia-London it would be over $100. Wonder if people would be willing to pay $100 for the privilege?

Both QF and VA would have no idea if people were prepared to pay approx 10-15% more for 34" pitch because they haven't tried it. I would imagine it could be marketed and sold as Y+ or Y Space etc. You would think it would be wildly popular except for the very short flights - the difference between 31" and 34" is chalk and cheese. I don't know why this is so difficult for the some airline management to comprehend especially because airline management love to p#** and moan about excess capacity and cut-throat competition.

 

[The Rok]

Until of course all the WP's start whinging that they should be given those seats at no extra charge.


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[dfcatch]

Mal Ware - please let me know if you're ever on my flight.

I will take great pleasure in crushing your knees with my seatback - and yes I will put up with your kicking and punching and tray-table-thumping and whatever other petulant-child tactics you try.

It will annoy me for sure - but I will thoroughly enjoy my stretching out ability and increased leg room


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[Ausbt]

What would you do on a long haul flight?

I've got no problem with reclining on long haul, so any flight of 3 hours or more recline-away as you please, you'll hear nothing from me. Naturally if the reclining pax had an obvious issue (too tall, infirm, other physical ailment) then I would support their right to recline into the space in front of me as they wish.

 

[medhead]

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my last post or 2, I'm withdrawing from this thread. An exception to answer the direct question.

Why do you think this is a weak argument?

It's weak because it is just about what is technically or physically possible was can be done. It ignores society. It ignores the social implications of doing what is physically possible. In fact it says that reclining is physically possible and therefore society doesn't matter. As such it is a statement of fact that fails to address the real issues involved.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

I agree with Medhead

 

[Ausbt]

Associated issue: what about if you and a companion get a spare seat between you. You end up in A & C. Would it be the height of rudeness and bad form to not only recline A & C but to lean over and recline B as well?

I sort of copped that one on a recent VA short-haul international. The +1 and I had specifically chosen row 4 and it was both a very quiet flight and I knew I'd get a shadow anyway, so B was spare. But in fact all of row 3, A through to F, was completely empty. The fixed armrests made it a deal killer for the two of us lovebirds, but lo and behold here come some enterprising pax up from the rear, who grab some of row three and then recline all the spare seats into 'our' space!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Associated issue: what about if you and a companion get a spare seat between you. You end up in A & C. Would it be the height of rudeness and bad form to not only recline A & C but to lean over and recline B as well?

I sort of copped that one on a recent VA short-haul international. The +1 and I had specifically chosen row 4 and it was both a very quiet flight and I knew I'd get a shadow anyway, so B was spare. But in fact all of row 3, A through to F, was completely empty. The fixed armrests made it a deal killer for the two of us lovebirds, but lo and behold here come some enterprising pax up from the rear, who grab some of row three and then recline all the spare seats into 'our' space!

if you had three seats and the row behind was completely full, bad form to recline the B seat. the middle behind already has it bad enough.

if you have three seats for two pax, and the row in front is the same, it makes no difference if they recline the B seat, cause its not really useable space for you anyway. just their luck!

 

[oz_mark]

I was referring to economy. Hmmm. Am I confusing it with bus seats?

The only ones I know of on public transport are the handles that exist for standing passengers to hold on to.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Both QF and VA would have no idea if people were prepared to pay approx 10-15% more for 34" pitch because they haven't tried it. I would imagine it could be marketed and sold as Y+ or Y Space etc. You would think it would be wildly popular except for the very short flights - the difference between 31" and 34" is chalk and cheese. I don't know why this is so difficult for the some airline management to comprehend especially because airline management love to p#** and moan about excess capacity and cut-throat competition.

Well VA kind of do already with Blue Zone, and that is rarely sold out (except transcon, then it sometimes is). Pity we can't get it, but that data would be very interesting and give us an idea.

 

[eastwest101]

Well VA kind of do already with Blue Zone, and that is rarely sold out (except transcon, then it sometimes is). Pity we can't get it, but that data would be very interesting and give us an idea.

If you are referring to VA Extra Leg Room on VA domestic for $35 then there is one slight problem, these exit row seats and front of Y seats are also offered first to higher tier VA FFers and allocated to higher booking class fully flexible fares so you would need to find out exactly how many pax are actually stumping up the $35 fee for the extra legroom rather than getting these seats as normal fare paying high tier VA frequent flyers. Just because the front and exit rows are full dosen't mean that the people there paid the fee to be there.

For this reason and the fact that these seats probably only account for 5-10% of available Y seats that I say that VA kind of do but kind of don't.

Maybe the front 10 rows of a B738 may be a bit ambitious but if the front 5 to 6 rows had the 34" pitch (along with exit rows) then maybe VA would find out how many people would be prepared to pay the Extra Leg Room fee. I suspect that VA or QF would never do this though as it would destroy their business model for selling J class.

 

[salat44]

I recently took a flight in Y from Perth to London and onthe SIN-LHR overnight leg the woman in the seat behind me leant forward andasked me not to recline my seat as she had leg problems and could not bend herknees. She was a mature lady, but by no means elderly, and being a courteousand considerate gentleman I complied with her request. As a result I had anuncomfortable flight, sitting bolt upright overnight, while the passenger infront reclined into me and I noticed the lady was also fully reclined.
When I mentioned this to a frequent flier friend he said Ihad been conned and she just wanted more room. He argued that if she had real legproblems she should have paid more for a better seat, or had a Doctor’s noteand informed the airline in advance. What would you have done?
Options for moving my seat were limited as the plane waspacked, although on a trip to the loo I noticed a couple of three seat rows towardsthe rear with an empty middle seat. However the people on either side had movedtheir in-flight stuff onto the seat and were clearly settling in to enjoy theflight with an empty seat next to them. So I also wonder what the etiquette ison moving to one of those middle seats after the flight has taken off.

 

[Must...Fly!]

If you are referring to VA Extra Leg Room on VA domestic for $35 then there is one slight problem, these exit row seats and front of Y seats are also offered first to higher tier VA FFers and allocated to higher booking class fully flexible fares so you would need to find out exactly how many pax are actually stumping up the $35 fee for the extra legroom rather than getting these seats as normal fare paying high tier VA frequent flyers. Just because the front and exit rows are full dosen't mean that the people there paid the fee to be there.

Does flexi/plats get the exit rows gratis?

With exit rows there have been a few times where i have been unable to pay extra because all extra legroom seats have been sold on a transcon. Never had that problem for shorter flights though (not that I would pay for a short flight either).

 

[eastwest101]

Does flexi/plats get the exit rows gratis?

With exit rows there have been a few times where i have been unable to pay extra because all extra legroom seats have been sold on a transcon. Never had that problem for shorter flights though (not that I would pay for a short flight either).

Actually we would need to ask some Plats that question (I am not Plat), on Flexi I have been able to request an exit row seat at the counter or lounge (if its available). And yes I totally agree that the extra legroom would be popular on transcon flights - no doubt about it. In the cases where you were unable to pay the extra fee for extra leg room - was that at the time of booking or at the airport, could be a different story if your bookings are done weeks out or for flights the next day. Obviously if you are booking for flights the next day then I would assume that OLCI would have already started and people would have grabbed exit or front row Y seats pretty quickly.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Actually we would need to ask some Plats that question (I am not Plat), on Flexi I have been able to request an exit row seat at the counter or lounge (if its available). And yes I totally agree that the extra legroom would be popular on transcon flights - no doubt about it. In the cases where you were unable to pay the extra fee for extra leg room - was that at the time of booking or at the airport, could be a different story if your bookings are done weeks out or for flights the next day. Obviously if you are booking for flights the next day then I would assume that OLCI would have already started and people would have grabbed exit or front row Y seats pretty quickly.

At time of booking.

If there are free exit row seats on arrival at the airport you can request one and it is free due to the requirement of at least 2 pax in each exit row block of 3 in Australia. It is a good gamble on shorter flights on the 737 VA metal and I often get it, but for transcon (most of the time) you can forget it.

For me actually it is a good reason to pay any premium to Qantas. An observation as a relatively new QF PS member, at T-80 exit rows are usually free on 737s (or row 4) or on a -ZX 767 I can get an exit row on booking. However when I was an NB getting an exit row was almost impossible, even at T-80.

 

[Jurahn]

Yeah it does....

So it is okay for you to impede into his space when you recline because YOU paid for YOUR ticket, but because he stretches out and his feet get into YOUR footspace it is not allowed? LOL Double standards much?

Not double standards at all - my seat wasn't reclined at all during the flight, so I wasn't impeding into his space in any way, shape or form. Given the lack of space in Y (and that's why we have these ongoing arguments/discussions/issues about reclining), shoving your feet into someone else's footspace is just rude. At least if someone reclines in front of me, I have the option of reclining MY seat to try to regain a little space - and yes, that has the knock-on effect down the line for people behind me, but at least you have that option. There's little you can do if someone else's feet are encroaching into your footspace - I don't have long legs that I can stretch out under the seat in front of me, nor is there a footrest on most planes nowadays - for heaven's sake, the bare minimum I should be able to expect on a flight is to be able to place my feet in a comfortable position (or as comfortable as you can get on a plane!) within MY - albeit extremely limited - seat "zone".

And yes, I recline my seat but usually only on long-haul flights (and by that, I mean international flights, not coast-to-coast) and only when I want to try to get some sleep and at those times, most other people in the cabin are also trying to sleep and have reclined their seats as well. I admit, I don't like it when people in front of me recline their seats, so I am always mindful of the effect it will have on the person behind me if I recline and only do so when necessary.