CSM's measured on On Time Performance

[QF WP]

A member wanted me to post this on their behalf, as it may be possible to identify them and they requested anonymity:

So I was travelling xx_-xx_ on a 73x and the flight was very full. We left the gate maybe 10 mins late and you could see the crew going back and forth with various bags that couldn't be stowed in the overhead due to the light being full. I was that bothered - my bag was in and my laptop bag was under the seat in front.

Shortly after take off the QP drinks kicked in and I wandered back from row 7 to the loos at the back for a tinkle. Whilst waiting there I overheard a fairly exasperated conversation between the CSM and the crew (I will set aside any comments that crew should have been getting service ready rather than chatting).

The gist of the conversation was that we were late departing because of the 10 bags that couldn't be fitted in the overheads - the reason for that was the number of bags that were over size or over quantity coming on board. The CSM was aggrieved as he said "that stat sticks to me - I get blamed for them letting people on with over size bags that then delay the departure".

I found it interesting as I wouldn't have known that crew were measured on OTD and it also showed a conflict between cabin crew and ground "crew".

Just another insight into the motivations one drivers of behaviours in the QF business.

I'll respond by saying that's news to me that their KPI's have a portion for on-time exit.

 

[Blackadder]

Probably not surprising that someone has to be held accountable for OTD.

 

[munitalP]

About time IMHO. 1 bag, correct size, if aircrew can't be bothered enforcing, hit them where it hurts most, the wallet.

 

[pauly7]

Virgin need to get tougher on this as well.

Actually Jetstar IMHO have been the toughest and good on them!

 

[JohnK]

You won't get any complaints from me on reducing cabin baggage.

On more than occassion I have had to wait for people trying to get their stuff out of the overheads. I recently saw one person with 5 separate items. Not good enough.

And when I do complain that I want to get off the aircraft as quickly as possible I get asked 'What is the rush?". Unfortunately I do not share your patience in trying to retrieve your stuff from overhead(s) and I do not want to wait for you....

 

[Gerardf]

Agreed about bags into overhead lockers. The cough that some people want to bring on board is sometimes astounding. I travel light as I can. Laptop and one small carry on.

While it was going underneath the a/c, I recall at Perth a few weeks back seeing someone checking in a dining table chair! After being momentarily shocked, I thought "Why not, I guess it's one person's choice."

But the carry on baggage is one reason why I try to board ASAP. And I also try to make a small footprint in the lockers.

One problem with travelling in Y and on an aisle is getting hit from above by a badly stowed piece of luggage falling out prior to t/o.

 

[simongr]

Only thoughts I have is as to who is responsible for policing cabin baggage and what if everyone took just one regulation size piece - wouldn't that be too much anyway?

 

[Gerardf]

You won't get any complaints from me on reducing cabin baggage.

On more than occassion I have had to wait for people trying to get their stuff out of the overheads. I recently saw one person with 5 separate items. Not good enough.

And when I do complain that I want to get off the aircraft as quickly as possible I get asked 'What is the rush?". Unfortunately I do not share your patience in trying to retrieve your stuff from overhead(s) and I do not want to wait for you....

My number ONE pet hate, John.

 

[moa999]

Virgin has a similar system. Once the last pax is thru checkin responsibility then moves to CSM and clock starts clicking.
Sitting in 1A on a 737-7 had a CSM almost take my footoff slamming down the door having been crazily harried in the past 5 min

 

[eastwest101]

I would prefer that the carry-on baggage enforcement happens at the gate, even the check-in process (but difficut to enforce with OLCI and self-check-in). I don't think its really fair that the cabin crew wear this KPI. It should be a KPI of the ground staff.

Like priority boarding - its a matter of enforcement (importantly at the right stage) for a long time and then everyone will get the message.....

 

[oz_mark]

I would prefer that the carry-on baggage enforcement happens at the gate, even the check-in process (but difficut to enforce with OLCI and self-check-in). I don't think its really fair that the cabin crew wear this KPI. It should be a KPI of the ground staff.

How can it be a KPI of the ground staff? AFAIK, the staff at the gate are FA's under the CSM's direction?

 

[SeatBackForward]

How can it be a KPI of the ground staff? AFAIK, the staff at the gate are FA's under the CSM's direction?

Ocassionaly staff from a service counter near the gate may assist, but you are correct normally its the cabin crew that are the gate keepers.

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[serfty]

About time IMHO. 1 bag, correct size, if aircrew can't be bothered enforcing, hit them where it hurts most, the wallet.

There's no indication of whether this was [-]QF or DJ[/-], domestic or international.

If QF domestic, the limit is two bags, otherwise one.

Doesn't the CSM get the opportunity to police bag limits as PAX board?

Posted on a wing and a prayer ...

 

[QF WP]

This was QF as I understand it.

 

[Canny man]

It's a bit of a no win situation. If enforced at the gate, then there's the delay of checking the bag into the hold.

People do get very irate when the queue is policed for check in bag size. Another example of that good old 'entitlement mentality' that curses so much of life today.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I'm sure its not actually that difficult to do, for instance, why do QF usually have two staff members greeting people as they board, for the complex task of pointing out which aisle to walk down (even more complex on the single aisled aircraft!)? Its not as is they guide you into a specific seat, thats what the rest of the crew do. Surely ONE of these would be better off assisting at the gate, say with checking Priority lanes, or enforcing carry onlimits - again particulay on the single aisled aircraft.

Having to check in a bag is painful, but the "dont queue up, just come back directly to the gate" should alleviate any dis-gruntlement..

 

[oz_mark]

This was QF as I understand it.

You'd think so, given the comment about the qf business in the OP.

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[simongr]

It is interesting though - I only like to be measured on what I can control - how can the CSM control what bags people bring on boar - again given that if everyone brought on board just one regulation sized bag there would be no room.

 

[serfty]

You'd think so, given the comment about the qf business in the OP.
...

Fair enough - QF, but QP can men both Domestc Qantas Clubs and Qantas International Business lounges.

I presume domestic though ...

It is interesting though - I only like to be measured on what I can control - how can the CSM control what bags people bring on boar - again given that if everyone brought on board just one regulation sized bag there would be no room.

During the door greet they can control - I have seen this happen before.

Of course, doing that would generally result in delays as well.

No, with Qantas Domestic, there are FA's at the BP readers - they should be the one's policing this (at the direction of the CSM), before the passenger enters the aerobridge.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

About time IMHO. 1 bag, correct size, if aircrew can't be bothered enforcing, hit them where it hurts most, the wallet.

I don't know whether they are actually penalised financially but obviously if they get too many delays going down to them their superior would have a chat to them.

I think the amount of carry on has increased since 01 June 2011 when pax were limited to 1 piece of checked luggage whether the weight was 20 kg or 10 kg. The 2nd piece of luggage they previously would have checked now gets taken into the cabin.

Also when I've travelled on both DJ & QF 737's if you are in an aisle seat there is no room for carryon under the seat in front it has to go in the locker.

I would prefer that the carry-on baggage enforcement happens at the gate, even the check-in process (but difficut to enforce with OLCI and self-check-in). I don't think its really fair that the cabin crew wear this KPI. It should be a KPI of the ground staff.

Like priority boarding - its a matter of enforcement (importantly at the right stage) for a long time and then everyone will get the message.....

On peak hour flights you can have a 738 with 168 pax but there may only be 40 bags checked in. Therefore that's 128 pax ground staff potentially don't see as the first contact with an airline staff member will be the F/A who boards them.

There are plenty of times when carry on is enforced at the gate but people still take ages to put it away once onboard.

How can it be a KPI of the ground staff? AFAIK, the staff at the gate are FA's under the CSM's direction?

The boarding staff at the gate are F/As so it's their decision if a bag is oversize or not.

I'm sure its not actually that difficult to do, for instance, why do QF usually have two staff members greeting people as they board, for the complex task of pointing out which aisle to walk down (even more complex on the single aisled aircraft!)? Its not as is they guide you into a specific seat, thats what the rest of the crew do. Surely ONE of these would be better off assisting at the gate, say with checking Priority lanes, or enforcing carry onlimits - again particulay on the single aisled aircraft.

Having to check in a bag is painful, but the "dont queue up, just come back directly to the gate" should alleviate any dis-gruntlement..

There is a certain amount of cabin crew who must remain onboard eg a 738 has 5 cabin crew but must have 3 on the a/c during boarding which is usually the CSM & 2 F/As with the other 2 at the boarding gate.