CPR and Doctors on Jetstar Airways JQ 61 26th July

[ethernet]

Apparently a medical emergency and CPR on the above Jetstar flight has not made the news. A few hours before HCMC a call for doctors on board was made. I do not know the outcome. But I did observe full on CPR for ages and ages and all possible assistance rendered. To the doctors and others I say outstanding job, everything possible was done.

 

[Quickstatus]

How many hours before landing did this occur?
The flight did not divert so I assume it was closer to SGN than suitable alternate airport like BWN or even SIN

Hopefully will encourage more people to learn CPR

My understanding is JQ/QF carry automated defibrillators which can be used my non medical people. Do you know if this was used?.

The automated defibrillators may not activate even when attached because the heart rhythm is not suitable for a zap which sometimes lead people to erroneously think it has malfunctioned when in fact it was operating correctly.

 

[kpc]

I was on Jq61 4 days earlier on 23.7
Close call for me.

 

[Quickstatus]

I think I know what you mean @kpc.

While some people relish being involved in a rescue, I’m not one who enjoys it especially in a environment without all the usual equipment/drugs/skilled people around.

 

[ethernet]

How many hours before landing did this occur?
The flight did not divert so I assume it was closer to destination than suitable alternate airport like BWN or even SIN

Hopefully will encourage more people to learn CPR

I think about 2.5 hours away, so Vn seemed the most logical. As for CPR the team( 3/4 doctors) ganged up and took turns at full on CPR (Extremely tiring if you do it this fast and well).The tall lady in white had well developed biceps just oozed authority. I think oxygen and a defibrillator were also used, and several injections, and seemed to go on for an hour. Comfort and compassion for the upset. Really professional. If I had to nitpick, I thought the plane has an extra portable curtain to deploy to hide the action, I think where the boarding entrance was.

On arrival we did not get a landing gate, but parked on the apron and bussed to arrivals. The captain did not announce anything except neutral generalisations. I am good with that. We exited out of the boarding way, so hiding the business/pointy end seats.

 

[Quickstatus]

Did CPR continue all the way to landing? - including seat belts on period?

Yes Effective CPR (which may actually break ribs) is very tiring and the effectiveness deteriorates very quickly. Rotation is very necessary.

May not be Drs, could have been nurses/paramedics or even non medical participating in that rescue?

 

[jb747]

Apparently a medical emergency and CPR on the above Jetstar flight has not made the news.

It doesn't make the news, more often than not. Possibly because it isn't really news, but then that doesn't really matter to the media these days.

Beyond that though...is there any point to lengthy CPR. I've had a number of passengers die on flights over the years, and in each case CPR was administered quickly and by well qualified people. Medlink also pronounced them deceased after about 40-60 minutes.

The decision to divert, or not, is an interesting one, and takes into account the safety of the entire passenger group, not just the distressed person...so the outcome may not be all that obvious.

 

[kpc]

If you are needing prolonged CPR, the prognosis is very poor / futile, so probably no need to divert.

 

[Quickstatus]

The longest CPR I’ve been involved in was 2 hours. We did it long enough until they could get a heart lung machine attached but I’m sure JQ does not have one tucked away somewhere

How long is long?. Depends on context. Particularly if a witnessed collapse and effective CPR started almost immediately and person relatively young and other reversible factors in play.

Celebrated cases were young drowning victims in ice cold Canadian lakes where resuscitation also involved warming the victim. You are not dead if cold and dead. You are only dead if warm and dead.

 

[tgh]

You are not dead if cold and dead. You are only dead if warm and dead.

informative.. I must check…..

 

[jb747]

Celebrated cases were young drowning victims in ice cold Canadian lakes where resuscitation also involved warming the victim. You are not dead if cold and dead. You are only dead if warm and dead.

Yes....but, unless we allow the unwarmed outside air into the cabin, the person is not going to be cold. And if we do let it in, then I'll need a lot more than one ambulance.

 

[Quickstatus]

CPR is ageist - maybe fortunately. Most would not do a prolonged CPR in a 80 yr old.

You are not dead if cold and dead. You are only dead if warm and dead.

informative.. I must check…..

The H and T of reversible causes of cardiac arrest. If they are in play consider prolonged resuscitation until those causes are reversed

But generally in a metal tube 2.5hrs away from doors opening, prognosis is not good under any circumstances

Q1: Likely parked at away from gate to expedite arrival of Emergency services?

Q1: CPR during final approach or at other times when Seat belt sign is on. If involved during such times, what’s best?

 

[jb747]

CPR is ageist - maybe fortunately. Most would not do a prolonged CPR in a 80 yr old.

The age spread for the deaths that I've seen on my flights was 42 to about 80. In the case of the oldest and youngest, the time of flight to any reasonable airport would have been over 3 hours. For the other person, there was a closer airport, but the risk involved was too great to make it viable...so the time ended up at about 1.5-2 hours.

But generally in a metal tube 2.5hrs away from doors opening, prognosis is not good under any circumstances

From the cruise, even if you were pretty much over an airport, you'd have to be looking at, at least, 20 minutes. So realistically, except in exceptional cases, the minimum you could ever get from cruise to ambulance would have to be 30 plus minutes. And most of the time, you're actually nowhere near a usable airport.

Q1: Likely parked at away from gate to expedite arrival of Emergency services?

Maybe. But, generally it would actually be quicker to park at a gate.

Q1: CPR during final approach or at other times when Seat belt sign is on. If involved during such times, what’s best?

Unless you're going to be bounced off the roof by turbulence, the Captain can allow the people to remain unrestrained to continue CPR.

 

[flyer89]

Celebrated cases were young drowning victims in ice cold Canadian lakes where resuscitation also involved warming the victim. You are not dead if cold and dead. You are only dead if warm and dead.

That’s interesting. I read a little while back about a new technique of ‘therapeutic hypothermia’ where the patient is flushed with ice cold saline that can increase the chances of resuscitation being successful and also reduces risk of brain injury in the aftermath.

 

[Quickstatus]

That’s a different scenario.

In ice cold drownings, you can’t give up on CPR and attempts to restart the heart until the victim is warmed. The hypothermia is a barrier to restarting the heart. Whatever the protection to the brain by the cold, it is secondary because restarting the circulation is paramount.

Or if not hypothermia then whatever reversible causes that can be reversed. (The “H& T” of reversible causes of cardiac arrest)

In therapeutic hypothermia, the heart has already restarted, and only then is T-hypothermia instituted to reduce or mitigate brain injury which may have already occurred. Very experimental and currently really not shown to be effective. Better to learn how to do CPR.

 

[cove]

I have only done CPR on a plastic model and 5 minutes was quite exhausting without all the what if’s with anxiety of am I doing this correctly. Is the Vinnie Jones CPR video with the Staying Alive music beat ok for non medicos? I must say it took away my fear of rendering assistance but can I do it in a real life and death scenario.
I was 44.7 when I had my 4 artery grafts so I have had 25 years to pay attention. We have a defibrillator at home and work plus Anginine spray in my briefcase , my car Centre console and my wife’s handbag that go unused and get updated every 6 months.

 

[Quickstatus]

@cove
Anything with a beat rate 100-120/min

Staying Alive (Bee Gees)
Hard to Handle (black Crowes)
Dancing Queen (ABBA)

My fav is Cecilia (Garfunkel)
“Cecilia you’re breaking my heart I’m down on my knees”

Just google CPR songs

 

[cove]

Thanks for that....go Cecilia!

 

[awaywithfairies]

@cove
Anything with a beat rate 100-120/min

Staying Alive (Bee Gees)
Hard to Handle (black Crowes)
Dancing Queen (ABBA)

My fav is Cecilia (Garfunkel)
“Cecilia you’re breaking my heart I’m down on my knees”

Just google CPR songs

At the last CPR refresher update I did a few months ago, the trainer recommended the Baby Shark song...

 

[Quickstatus]

The effectiveness of CPR deteriorates after about 2 min or about 200 chest compressions.
For those who feel particularly aerobic try the 120 bpm “I will survive”