Courtesy Upgrades from Australian Airlines

[MEL_Traveller]

For this Friday though?

Well - actually that's a good point... but surprisingly, leaving this friday to europe, on Etihad, and returning immediately on Sat 8th August is slightly more expensive, comes in at AUD1608. So $200 less than a simple SYD-MEL.

(Sample flights... MEL-CGD 1500-0745+1, return CDG-MEL 1050-1720+1, stop in AUH for 3hrs outbound and 2hrs on the return)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The old "empty" J cabin storyline is not that correct anymore. It certainly was the case with the old VA Dom W but these days I'd suggest it's more common to see 50%+ rather than 50%- on both airlines. I regard the use of points for J upgrade as a purchase of that J seat and as such, I don't particularly feel that either airline should offer freebie J upgrades. Why would they? More importantly, it leaves the J cabin open for those last minute upgrades. I've become a bit accustomed of late, to using fly ahead rather than changing bookings (even although all my fares this year have been either J or flex) as the price doesn't change. The downside is losing the coveted row 3 (VA) so I've been using point upgrades (not bad value from a flex fare) to upgrade to J to replace the row 3 loss. I haven't yet been unable to do it whereas that may not be the case if lounge staff had already given away the spare J seats.

 

[yohy?!]

the airlines won't do it until they have to due to competition - as of now QF can fill their premium cabins on the busiest domestic routes through points upgrades or connecting international business class pax (along with the small number who pay cash).

if VA were to introduce this i think we would potentially see it happen at QF also. i cant say its something id like to see as it would lead to further devaluation in the product - QF F&B is probably the best example of this, ie since VA started J class and caused J fares to fall the offering on QF has gone way down hill as they matched prices and reduced yields.

 

[samh004]

As a WP I've had free upgrades before, most notably BNE-CNS when booked with my mum. It was a great upgrade as we had a BSI and were able to watch a full movie each.

 

[drron]

Mrsdrron as QFF WP has never had an opup though I got one when AA EXP.
Basically think no free upgrades and you wont be disappointed.

 

[medhead]

I fail to see how giving away free upgrades is going to encourage some other passenger to pay cash money for an airfare that they can't/don't buy already.

More likely in Australia they're going to sit there and think about that Lucky Bustard, or that arrogant A-hole bustard, up the front. Personally, Qantas could better gain my loyalty by sending a glass of wine from the front to the back.

"Operational upgrades" do happen occasionally when Y is overbooked and it is a busy day; I recall getting a few of these myself. But as the above posters have noted, it is very much the exception; our airlines like to remain solvent!

I would have said they happen rarely.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I fail to see how giving away free upgrades is going to encourage some other passenger to pay cash money for an airfare that they can't/don't buy already....Personally, Qantas could better gain my loyalty by sending a glass of wine from the front to the back.

I would have said they happen rarely.

I actually agree totally with these comments! I have been occasionally buying J (I may not have with freebie upgrades), which I previously would never have done, as a way of maintaining status and treating myself a bit (of course it helps that I have a client who pays a decent travel contribution, so not much more out of my pocket than I used to pay). If they did offer the odd glass of wine to WPs that would go a long way to showing a token of appreciation for the business, (in my book at least). Also, when flying J, it's a nicer experience to be in a half empty cabin rather than chockers (but that's pure selfishness).

 

[juddles]

Just some ideas from afar:

In Colombia, Avianca have what I consider to be a really good system for upgrades. It balances revenue / quality product / customer loyalty.

Avianca status pax (via the Lifemiles FF program) get automatic space-available upgrades IF their fare class qualifies. Domestic economy fares are sold in 4 types - essentially super saver and saver fares, and restricted and flexible fares. The first two are NOT eligible for upgrades, the second two are.

To give an idea on pricing, the respective fares could cost $50, $100, $150, and $200. (The cheapest restricted J fare would be about $250 on that scale, $500 for a flex J.) So if you score an el-cheapo $50 ticket, you wont get an upgrade, but if you buy the more expensive ones, you probably will unless the flight is full in J. Load factors in J would run at about 60-70% averaged (in my experience). I love this system. If you just want a cheap ticket, you can get that, but if you want a bloody good chance at flying J for reduced cost, you can wrangle that. Because I enjoy flying as a hobby and take the time to check load factors when selecting flights, I have about a 95% success rate at upgrades. But sometimes I just fly down the back for $50 and choose the exit row

 

[Deleted member 29185]

if you score an el-cheapo $50 ticket, you wont get an upgrade, but if you buy the more expensive ones, you probably will unless the flight is full in J.

Isn't this a bit like an UpgradeMe bid, except you don't bid but pay extra regardless of upgrade whereas UpgradeMe you have to bid, but you only pay extra if you get to fly J?

 

[juddles]

There is another part to it - the usual way to gain status here is due to segments, not overall miles, due to most flights being "relatively" short. The restricted and flex Y fares provide 1 and 2 "qualifying sectors" respectively, the saver fares have none. So if you pay a higher fare you get the sectors, even if you don't get an upgrade.

And IF you are not a staus pax, they also send you an email prior to the flight offering you a bid-upgrade opportunity

 

[opusman]

Isn't this a bit like an UpgradeMe bid, except you don't bid but pay extra regardless of upgrade whereas UpgradeMe you have to bid, but you only pay extra if you get to fly J?

Conceptually no different to the QF lottery system which you have to pay to enter.

 

[juddles]

Conceptually no different to the QF lottery system which you have to pay to enter.

As per post #30, not quite.

 

[opusman]

As per post #30, not quite.

It was the "except you don't bid but pay extra regardless of upgrade" bit I was referring to.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

And IF you are not a staus pax, they also send you an email prior to the flight offering you a bid-upgrade opportunity

Hmmmm, so who gets preference? The cash bidder or the freebie hopeful?

 

[medhead]

Just some ideas from afar:

In Colombia, Avianca have what I consider to be a really good system for upgrades. It balances revenue / quality product / customer loyalty.

Avianca status pax (via the Lifemiles FF program) get automatic space-available upgrades IF their fare class qualifies. Domestic economy fares are sold in 4 types - essentially super saver and saver fares, and restricted and flexible fares. The first two are NOT eligible for upgrades, the second two are.

To give an idea on pricing, the respective fares could cost $50, $100, $150, and $200. (The cheapest restricted J fare would be about $250 on that scale, $500 for a flex J.) So if you score an el-cheapo $50 ticket, you wont get an upgrade, but if you buy the more expensive ones, you probably will unless the flight is full in J. Load factors in J would run at about 60-70% averaged (in my experience). I love this system. If you just want a cheap ticket, you can get that, but if you want a bloody good chance at flying J for reduced cost, you can wrangle that. Because I enjoy flying as a hobby and take the time to check load factors when selecting flights, I have about a 95% success rate at upgrades. But sometimes I just fly down the back for $50 and choose the exit row

I would imagine that the higher status passenger on the higher cost fare would also have a better chance of an op-up with Qantas. Just that it isn't an advertised benefit.

I've also been noticing a couple of situations were the Expertflyer seat map 30 minutes before the flight doesn't match the take off seat map. For example row 4 seats become empty but more seats in J are occupied. That makes me think op-ups are happening.

 

[Sprucegoose]

FWIW Both Qantas and Ansett used to actually do Courtesy Upgrades.

In my heavy Domestic travel days for work back in the 90's, most of my bookings were in Y or B class.

As a Qantas Gold (then top level) frequent flyer ,I found that I would regularly be upgraded - but the flights were not necessarily full. This was also happening for a couple of my work associates (also Gold).


Anyway we enjoyed it for a time until Qantas sent letters out in the late 90's stating that "Courtesy Upgrades" (that's the exact term they used) would no longer be available (but rest assured we would be first on the list if an upgrade would be necessary).

So, it was a conscious decision to actually do away with "Courtesy Upgrades".

That was Flight Deck Serfty !!

 

[juddles]

Hmmmm, so who gets preference? The cash bidder or the freebie hopeful?

The status pax always get in first - the cash bidders (who are all non-status pax) get a shot at anything left.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Hmmmm, so who gets preference? The cash bidder or the freebie hopeful?

The status pax always get in first - the cash bidders (who are all non-status pax) get a shot at anything left.

It would be Classic upgrade requests first followed by bid now upgrades then if there was still an oversale situation after that, any op-ups for the "freebie hopeful" would generally be actioned on the day of departure according to pax status, PCV etc.

 

[JohnK]

I am of the belief that airlines should utilise some empty seats in premium cabins. If they did it all the time it would devalue the product and could also detract anyone from paying the premium if they knew they'd have a good chance of upgrade.

The old "empty" J cabin storyline is not that correct anymore. It certainly was the case with the old VA Dom W but these days I'd suggest it's more common to see 50%+ rather than 50%- on both airlines.

In my experience it is very rare to see more than 2-3 people in business class cabin on VA unless flight was full and even then only some flights.

Qantas on the other hand fills their business class cabin more often but the past few months there have been spare seats in business which is unusual.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

It would be Classic upgrade requests first followed by bid now upgrades then if there was still an oversale situation after that, any op-ups for the "freebie hopeful" would generally be actioned on the day of departure according to pax status, PCV etc.

Are you referring to Avianca?