Citibank Continues to Frustrate

[jgm]

There are a couple of points of interest here.

Firstly SMS is not a GUARANTEED means of message delivery, it is "best effort". The insistance of companies using it as a primary contact mechanism and furthemore imposing time limits on the validity of the data is disgraceful.

Secondly, I can't find anything in Citibank's conditions that state the SMS reception availability is required. The only thing I have found is that an applicant for Citibank service must have a mobile telephone number.

 

[Legoman]

[/I]Australian carriers do not have full roaming provisions in all countries, especially for pre-paid and MVNO services (e.g. neither Aldi operating on the Telstra wholesale network, Boost operating on Telstra retail network, nor Telstra pre-paid itself, can roam in many countries that Telstra post-paid can). Relying on SMS via roaming is not a panacea.

Sure, nothing's perfect obviously, but the aim of the game is to cover as many bases as you can with as little cost as possible to achieve the 'sweet spot' compromise solution. If I was planning a trip to Singapore, would I invest in a satellite phone, a personal EPIRB, GPS tracking watch and a first aid kit equipped with water sanitisation tablets and anti-malaria pills? No I would not.
In exactly the same way as I would not go on safari in Central African Republic with just an iPhone 3GS, my Australia-only sim card and an 'emergency' American Express card expecting to be able to use wi-fi and ATMs wherever I go.

A healthy dose of common sense is required, and it is common sense that the countries covered by the majority of MVNO sim card providers in Australia are all the big name ones with tourism industries actively encouraging people to visit. As such they ensure they have the agreements in place to make it easy and uncomplicated for those tourists to visit.

If on the other hand, you are one of the 0.5% of tourists who really want to go on safari in Central African Republic and have the experience of being held hostage for ransom by Boko Haram while making an authentic plea for your life to a handy-cam, well then go right ahead, but you might need to take some extra precautions not covered in this thread. As always YMMV.

For everywhere else, an ALDImobile sim is gonna cover you well enough for the other 99.5% of places you might wanna go.

 

[Legoman]

I'm just back from 3 weeks in the US and Asia. Had my phone but was wifi only whole trip as needed occasionally - no local SIM, no roaming.

Worked very "practically" - including using Uber and Lyft as desired.

Sure. No surprises there. You can get away with just wi-fi alone when visiting first world countries only and with a bit of pre-planning and preparation. Especially so if you have some family members left at home to clean things up for you if anything does go awry financially while you're away from the desk. I've done this too, but it's safer with a roaming Au SIM card and for the cost of $1.25/month to maintain it, I think it's worthwhile insurance to be able to receive SMS at least while away.

Firstly SMS is not a GUARANTEED means of message delivery, it is "best effort". The insistance of companies using it as a primary contact mechanism and furthemore imposing time limits on the validity of the data is disgraceful.

Agreed. It would be nice to say the banking royal commission will correct this, but of course it won't.

Secondly, I can't find anything in Citibank's conditions that state the SMS reception availability is required. The only thing I have found is that an applicant for Citibank service must have a mobile telephone number.

Citibank (all banks for that matter) are well known and almost famous for ignoring and contravening their own T&C's! Remember the outcry when they tried to devalue their points scheme overnight in contravention of their own T&C's saying they had to provide 60 days notice of any changes? All banks' T&C's also always have a clause which says they can amend, update or change their T&C's at any time they see fit to do so.

This effectively means the T&C's only apply to their customers and not to the bank itself. They are completely one-sided. If you find the bank behaving in a way that contravene's their T&C's, the bank can just immediately amend their T&C's to suit what they want to do, and voila, they're back in-line again.

Just like the government in that respect. Just try suing the government for any unfairness and witness how quickly legislation is passed and enacted retrospectively to ensure they don't lose the case. Works just like magic. When you're the one who makes the rules and can apply them at any time past, present or future, you can never lose an argument. Donald Trump's entire presidency is dependent on this fact. He's even been recorded asking openly how he can grant himself immunity or pardon himself for any future prosecutions for anything.

 

[theblank]

Australian carriers do not have full roaming provisions in all countries,

Any country like that is also unlikely to have credit card acceptantce, atms, or wifi, and its going to take a lot more preperation than a quick jaunt across the ditch,

especially for pre-paid and MVNO services (e.g. neither Aldi operating on the Telstra wholesale network,

if anyone wants to sign up with the cheap providerss there is a price to pay for the lack of some services that they dont provide.

Boost operating on Telstra retail network,

Boost has roaming service/package.

nor Telstra pre-paid itself, can roam in many countries that Telstra post-paid can).

I have telstra prepaid and it roams just fine.

Relying on SMS via roaming is not a panacea.

never said it was a panacea, but those stubborn people who insist that the dont need to bring their phone with them overseas and then whine incessantly after their choice bites them in the bum, deserved it.

 

[Cryptarcadian]

If on the other hand, you are one of the 0.5% of tourists who really want to go on safari in Central African Republic and have the experience of being held hostage for ransom… For everywhere else, an ALDImobile sim is gonna cover you well enough for the other 99.5% of places you might wanna go.

Any country like that is also unlikely to have credit card acceptantce, atms, or wifi, and its going to take a lot more preperation than a quick jaunt across the ditch… I have telstra prepaid and it roams just fine.

Examples of countries from different continents that AFFers (or Australians in general, really) popularly visit:

• Peru
• Morocco
• Maldives
• Iceland

The last one being a highly-developed country where credit cards are not just universally accepted, but their use is expected. When some merchants don't even accept cash, you definitely need a card that works, ironically.

All of them are supported on Telstra post-paid. None of them are supported for roaming on Telstra pre-paid or ALDImobile. Boost apparently supports Peru, but not the others.

It's got nothing to do with safety of the country, but with the nature of the carrier's commercial considerations and billing arrangements with the local carriers.

Perhaps you missed my point?

 

[Isochronous]

Citi lets you add an overseas mobile number to your profile.

 

[Rich]

never said it was a panacea, but those stubborn people who insist that the dont need to bring their phone with them overseas and then whine incessantly after their choice bites them in the bum, deserved it.

Who on this thread has done that?

 

[get me outta here]

Yes, but see Mattg's post number 5 here.

Citi lets you add an overseas mobile number to your profile.

 

[moa999]

Never had an issue with my Citi Plus.
I don't advise them, and never had an issue. Login to the app on phone using fingerprint security.

 

[Legoman]

Examples of countries from different continents that AFFers (or Australians in general, really) popularly visit:

• Peru
• Morocco
• Maldives
• Iceland

You have got to be kidding aren't you?
Those four countries do not appear on any list of the most popular destinations for Australians I've been able to find anywhere. That's not to denigrate any of them and I do not deny that Iceland is like Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania in being very technically wired up like South Korea & Singapore are, but that doesn't mean they're any more on the tourist well beaten path. Peru & Morocco are for backpackers looking to 'find themselves' in holistic wellness retreats, drinking green tea and singing Kumbaya around the camp fire passing around the hookah pipe. The Maldives is for newlyweds on honeymoon and nothing else. If those are your best shot at proving a tenuous point, then you might have been better off not replying at all.

Before the breakup of Yugoslavia and Russia and the creation of all the Retardistan countries above india and not counting Taiwan, Vatican City, San Marino or Tibet, the United Nations had 192 countries on its books. It's a lot more than that now. Somewhere in the region of ~236 or something when I last took an interest. You've cherry-picked four claiming them to be popularly visited. Right, OK then. Well that's my argument shot down in flames then isn't it?

Perhaps you missed my point?

I'm off to Saint Barthélemy on Monday. Word on the street there is good luck if you think your mobile phone is gonna work roaming or no roaming. I'm not surprised and am prepared for it. They've only just got scheme power back a year after Hurricane Maria ripped the place to shreds. I'm applying a good dose of common sense here. I'm not going to come in here and whinge that I couldn't access my Citibank account because my ALDImobile phone wouldn't deliver my OTP SMS codes to me even though I have roaming enabled. I know I'm going to one of the dodgiest, most out of the way, off the beaten track backwaters in the world. I do not expect Seoul levels of device connectivity. I'll be amazed if I can just check my e-mail.

You don't even have to go somewhere as backward as Peru or Morocco to get caught out with a phone that doesn't work. My neighbour just got back from Norfolk Island last week. The Norfolk Island that is now a completely Australian owned and governed territory in the Pacific Ocean. She bought a data-only Telstra retail 4G sim to use for her iPad while there. Completely useless. Telstra has no 4G towers on the island. They don't even have any 3G towers! The only mobile phones that work are the obsolete old Edge/2G ones that everyone threw out when they switched off the Edge/2G network on the mainland. Even then, the range is only really useable as long as you're standing in the one and only main street of the settlement. looking directly at the one and only tower on the island served by an adjacent satellite receiver. And that's offcially Australia!

 

[theblank]

Perhaps you missed my point?

I assume your point was your last sentence, which I replied to, so no I didnt miss it.

 

[Rich]

'm not going to come in here and whinge that I couldn't access my Citibank account

No one here has had such a whinge. The only true whinging is from Australian SIM advocates who can't accept that others don't share their views.

I simply asked what I should have done differently. You will notice there is a wide range of suggestions made and there are a wide range of problems experienced that suggests Citibank is somewhat inconsistent and that there is no definitive process to follow.

The debate about an Australian SIM somewhat misses the point because even if this would definitively solve the problem (it doesn't seem to for everyone), would this be a reasonable demand of an international bank? The demand they did make - to supply whatever contact number you have - doesn't seem to be foolproof either and largely didn't work for me.

There are some things I will consider next time, but like I said, Citibank seems pretty inconsistent so I have no confidence that the back up cards won't be required. This is not a whinge. Like I said in an earlier post, Citibank still saved me hundreds of dollars on my recent trip with no commissions and no ATM fees, it just could have been a little more had the card always worked.

 

[Legoman]

would this be a reasonable demand of an international bank?

What you think is reasonable or not reasonable is irrelevent. It doesn't matter what you think because you're not going to be able to change it. Citibank don't care. Citibank's attitude is: This is how we do it, if you don't like it or it doesn't work for you, then bye… please go find another bank.

Citibank still saved me hundreds of dollars on my recent trip with no commissions and no ATM fees

And there we have it. You like this part of Citibank, but you don't want to pay for it in terms of sh!thouse service and a rudimentary, outdated, logic-challenged online banking interface. I'll give you the tip, you're not alone. Nobody actually enjoys banking with Citibank. They're a royal pain in the a$$. But when you live in Australia, you have precisely three options if you want a card you can withdraw your own cash with overseas without paying a fee. They are Citibank Plus, UBank Ultra and ING Everyday.

Only one of those actually owns ATMs outside of Australia and can therefore control the machine owner/operator fee. Citibank.

One will refund the owner/operator fee even if it does get charged. ING. But you have to douse yourself in kerosene before jumping through an obstacle course of flaming hoops suspended over a shark tank each and every month forevermore in order to unlock that benefit. No thanks.

The third (UBank) will not refund owner/operator fees at all and has no known agreements with any international ATM operators for guaranteed no fee withdrawals.

Those are your realistic options if you choose to call Australia your home in 2018.

 

[Rich]

What you think is reasonable or not reasonable is irrelevent

It is relevant to the discussion because you keep coming back to the point that having an Australian SIM is what is required. There is an implication that I must accept this. Not even Citibank has ever said that and I have rightly pointed out it wouldn't guarantee anything.

And there we have it.

What do you mean by that? Read my very first post. I started by saying exactly this, that Citibank is still worth having, just what could I differently? Clearly there is nothing definite but one day there will be. It might take another 25 years. I thought it was worth asking now and in that there would be an agreed consensus on at least one thing I should have done. I understand the choices and I will continue to use Citibank at the moment but with reliable back ups. You seemed to think that I came here up in arms (or someone else is up in arms) but that is simply not the case.

 

[Lynda2475]

precisely three

Actually 4 - Macqurie Bank charges no overseas withdrawal or currency conversion fees, but also do not have their own atms. That said i was able to use their card in portugal and croatia no worries as their atms dont charge fees.

 

[theblank]

The debate about an Australian SIM somewhat misses the point because even if this would definitively solve the problem (it doesn't seem to for everyone), would this be a reasonable demand of an international bank?

Gazillions of service providers/govt/banks etc require SMS one time pins, and more introduce it all the time, Kris Flyer is one of the recent ones.
It makes no sense to pick on just one company that requires OTPs, when its a worldwide trend to use it, as its one of the top security measures against fraud.

 

[odysseus]

Gazillions of service providers/govt/banks etc require SMS one time pins, and more introduce it all the time, Kris Flyer is one of the recent ones.
It makes no sense to pick on just one company that requires OTPs, when its a worldwide trend to use it, as its one of the top security measures against fraud.

It's certainly a trend, but Citibank is the most OTT in implementing it. Most of the others continue to offer alternatives. With Citibank, there isn't.

 

[theblank]

I hope you dont have the 28 Degrees Mastercard then. No roaming, then no free airline lounges for you.

 

[stm1sydney]

Donald Trump's entire presidency is dependent on this fact.

You lost me when you brought President Trump into your argument on government over-reach. His entire presidency is predicated on reducing the size and scope of government, reducing its power and reach, reducing taxes etc. So he is on your side.

(Actually you lost me a bit earlier with your "You have got to be kidding aren't you?" post.)

 

[stm1sydney]

They are Citibank Plus, UBank Ultra and ING Everyday.

Only one of those actually owns ATMs outside of Australia and can therefore control the machine owner/operator fee. Citibank.

One will refund the owner/operator fee even if it does get charged. ING. But you have to douse yourself in kerosene before jumping through an obstacle course of flaming hoops suspended over a shark tank each and every month forevermore in order to unlock that benefit. No thanks.

The third (UBank) will not refund owner/operator fees at all and has no known agreements with any international ATM operators for guaranteed no fee withdrawals.

Those are your realistic options if you choose to call Australia your home in 2018.

A decent summary so Citibank it is, in my opinion. Sure, they are a bit OTT on security sometimes, but I pefer more focus on security rather than less. I've never had a problem withdrawing my Citibank money from ATMs in a wide range of countries.

Maybe the issue with the OP registering a US number during a trip was that Citi systems picked this up as being a risk factor - maybe it's something criminal syndicates are known to do once they get their hands on a stolen card.