Can anyone please explain?

[Johnc]

I am puzzled...

If I try to book Sydney to Honolulu return (Sep 06) all I can get is
Sydney to Hobolulu - ok
Honolulu back to Sydney only avail via Los Angeles (lots of flights 17-23 Sep)
so....
I think, let do a multi-trip:
Sydney - Honolulua - 1 week okay
Honolulu - Los Angeles - 1week okay
Los Angeles - Sydney ??? impossible - we have to go via Hong Kong.

So, why can we get flight Sydney-Hon and the Honolulu/Los Angeles/Sydney easily, yet the momment we want to stop over in LA for a week....it's not possible to get back to Sydney direct - now we have to spent more pounts and a whole lot of extra time to go via Hong Kong.

Why Qanatas?


Question #2
Are QFF points mareketable?
What can they be sold for - I reckon it may well be easier to watch for the holiday specials and grab those rather than play the Qantas moving hoops game?

So much for all the QFF and credit cards adverts - getting flight is a totally different prospect.


Thanks
john

 

[NM]

I am puzzled...

If I try to book Sydney to Honolulu return (Sep 06) all I can get is
Sydney to Hobolulu - ok
Honolulu back to Sydney only avail via Los Angeles (lots of flights 17-23 Sep)
so....
I think, let do a multi-trip:
Sydney - Honolulua - 1 week okay
Honolulu - Los Angeles - 1week okay
Los Angeles - Sydney ??? impossible - we have to go via Hong Kong.

So, why can we get flight Sydney-Hon and the Honolulu/Los Angeles/Sydney easily, yet the momment we want to stop over in LA for a week....it's not possible to get back to Sydney direct - now we have to spent more pounts and a whole lot of extra time to go via Hong Kong.

September 06 is around school holiday time and not very far ahead. FF award seats are always scarce around school holiday times. I suspect your desire to stay an extra week in LA has pushed you into the school holiday period (remember that different states have different school holiday periods).

What FF status do you hold? There is better seat availability for Gold and Platinum members, which is part of Qantas' plan to reward its frequent flyers more than frequent credit card spenders.

To help find FF seats, use the available tools such as FrequentFlyerFriend, KVS or ExpertFlyer.

Also note that QF3/4 SYD-HNL-SYD only operates 3 times a week, so there are not many options for finding FF seats - compare with SYD-LAX or SYD-MEL where frequency and the total number of seats is much higher.

Question #2
Are QFF points mareketable?
What can they be sold for - I reckon it may well be easier to watch for the holiday specials and grab those rather than play the Qantas moving hoops game?

No, they are not a sellable commodity. See the QF FF terms and conditions you agree to comply with when you joined the program. You can use you points for awards for your eligible family members, and you can transfer your points to eligible family members, but you cannot sell you points to anyone else.

So much for all the QFF and credit cards adverts - getting flight is a totally different prospect.

A great little earner for the airlines, isn't it?

I find the best value use of my QF FF points is for upgrading long-haul international flights. But again you need FF status (preferably Platinum or Gold) to succeed on clearing the waitlist, especially on the busy business routes like LHR or LAX.

 

[JohnK]

So, why can we get flight Sydney-Hon and the Honolulu/Los Angeles/Sydney easily, yet the momment we want to stop over in LA for a week....it's not possible to get back to Sydney direct - now we have to spent more pounts and a whole lot of extra time to go via Hong Kong.

Are you flexible with dates? How many people travelling? What is your QF status?

Here is the availability I am able to see! Towards the end of September the availability LAX-SYD reduces to via HKG or NRT only. Early September is a strong possibility for your trip although I am not sure how many award seats are available on these flights. Someone else with the right tools may be able to assist.

2nd Sep availability SYD-HNL direct
5th Sep availability SYD-HNL direct
9th Sep availability SYD-HNL direct

9th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
10th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
11th Sep availabilit HNL-LAX direct
12th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
13th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
14th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
15th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct
16th Sep availability HNL-LAX direct

13th Sep availability LAX-SYD or LAX-MEL-SYD
14th Sep availability LAX-MEL-SYD or LAX-MEl-CBR-SYD
15th Sep availability LAX-BNE-SYD or LAX-BNE-MEL-SYD
16th Sep availability LAX-BNE-SYD
17th Sep availability LAX-BNE-SYD or LAX-MEL-SYD
18th Sep availability LAX-MEL-SYD
19th Sep availability LAX-NAN-SYD on AIR PACIFIC

 

[QF WP]

You cannot sell your Qantas FF miles, it is against the T&C's, specifically Clause 7.2(d). You may have your QFF membership cancelled, if you breach the T&C's and attempt to sell your miles.

You do however have a number of options:

1. You can use them to apply for upgrades on QF flights (within 90 days of the flight) for eligible family members #
2. You can use them to apply for award tickets for eligible family members
3. You can "gift" them to family members . See the clauses on family transfers.

# 'Eligible Family Member' of a member means any person the Member can demonstrate, to the reasonable satisfaction of Qantas, as being related to that Member in any of the ways described below:

Husband/Wife
Parent/Step-parent
Domestic Partner/De Facto
Child, including foster & step-child
Brother/Sister
Half Brother/Sister
Grandparent
Grandchild
Son/Daughter-in-law
Brother/Sister-in-law
Father/Mother-in-law
Uncle/Aunt
Nephew/Niece
First cousin

 

[Johnc]

Thanks to all who have responded and offered help and suggestions.

First of all there are 2 of us trying to fly, so probably that does not help.

The flights mentioned above are there, (not all for 2 seats) but when you try to book them in one booking, some of them despair. (2 seats?)

Sept in not school holidays here (au) – hence us choosing that month, and it seems the only way to get a return - Honolulu-Sydney is via LA – without a stop-over. Once to try and put that in, everything changes and nothing available.

I have a few comments and concern concerns.


1. Obviously QFF is designed to assist those who really do fly frequently. Those of us who fly a few times a year are naturally disadvantaged. No problem with this. Rewards go where rewards are due.



2. So as a natural consequence, in the pecking order of Qantas, those Bronze members get just about zippo availability, the Silver a class above, with Gold and Plat etc have the best and real chance of getting seats.


2. There are currently many marketing programs on TV and radio every day – get this credit card for 1.5 or 2 QFF points for every $ spent – hire this car and get 500 QFF points, do this, do that and earn these lovely QFF points…. And herein lies the rub – all these folk have gone into these schemes (supported by Qantas of course- they get paid for it) and I’d guess the vast majority will be pitiful Bronze members. (I hardly think any Silver/Gold/Plat member would be jumping at this advertising – they’re all well organised, in the groove and enjoying their flights)


3. So we have a whole of expectant members, accumulating QFF at a rate of knots, and battling to use them.

In trying to use points - my observations and experience is:


1. It seems to be quite easy to get somewhere.


2. Getting back is another story. You are stuffed. On every occasion (without exception) the return flight options are always via a far-and-distant location. Obviously to fly you more miles and suck more points out of you. This has to be the plan. (no pun intended)


3. Then there is the catch-22 situation (I fell into it), and I’m sure it's well planned, thought out and executed to perfection.


Fact 1 - You can’t make a booking without points in your account. Common sense.


Fact 2 - One is reluctant to transfer the points in if there are no flights available.


Fact 3 – Fact 1 overrides Fact 2,



Fact 4 So..... you watch out for a few days/weeks – and presto – some flights. You transfer your points in, go on-line to book – and the David Copperfield Show hits town - like magic – the flights have GONE! I thought smoke and mirrors was the trade marks of the IT industry!


Fact 5 – So now you have 200K points sitting in your QFF account, unusable and un-transferable back from whence they came.


Fact 6 – Every-which-way : you loose. Qantas wins.


Concern
1. With all these marketing programs offering QFF points for almost anything – have Qantas allocated proportionally more seats?


2. If yes, is Qantas giving this market segment a fair change, or are the Silver/Gold/plat holder have an easier time snapping up these extras seats.



Apologies for the long post, but this matter has really got to me – to the point of suggesting that maybe a statutory authority should get involved and audit this outfit to what exactly is going on.

In conclusion, if I have no chance Qantas, please tell me so and I’ll go elsewhere!!!
Yeah – now that's what it is about really!
Suck you in and keep moving that carrot…..

As for me. Reckon that when I manage to use these pionts that will be the end. I'm giving Virgin a go, Can't be any worse. Al least if I support them, it may keep the Big-Q a bit (teeny weeny bit) more honest.




Thanks all
John

 

[Dave Noble]

There is availability; as you have stated there is availability for 1 award seat. Also there had been availability for 2 seats before you did a points transfer... it was your choice not to move the points to QFF earlier; if you had, then there would have been no issue

I see no issue ; seats were available but you didnt have the points; later, the seats were gone. c'est la vie

You are still in a position, from what you say, where you can get one award seat, so you could take one award and one paid ticket

Honolulu is not an easy destination to get awards to given that there is only 1 flight that goes there and doesn't operate every day

Silver members are in exactly the same situation as far as availability goes; only (iirc) Gold and Platinum members have additional economy availability

As far as availability for a week for 2 in HNL goes, for example

SYD-HNL QF3 7/9/06 has availability for 2 award seats and on 17/9/06, there is availability for 2 award seats on QF4 HNL-SYD

Dave

 

[NM]

Sept in not school holidays here (au) – hence us choosing that month, and it seems the only way to get a return - Honolulu-Sydney is via LA – without a stop-over. Once to try and put that in, everything changes and nothing available.

Check your facts again. Not all states in Australia have the same dates for school holidays. For example, Queensland school holidays are from 23rd September through until 8th October, and Victorian schools are on vacation from 15th September until 2nd October. Tasmanian schools are on holiday from 8th to 26th September. This is why I specifically mentioned school holidays in my post above.

So flights in the second half of September ARE during school holidays for some Australian states and depending on your dates, you may well be affected by the school holiday demand. Just because NSW schools don't finish until 2nd October does not mean other state's schools follow the same schedule. In fact, the eastern states specifically stagger their school holidays to spread the demand on holiday activities and popular vacation locations such as the Gold Coast.

1. Obviously QFF is designed to assist those who really do fly frequently. Those of us who fly a few times a year are naturally disadvantaged. No problem with this. Rewards go where rewards are due.

Hence the name of the program - Qantas Frequent Flyer program.

2. So as a natural consequence, in the pecking order of Qantas, those Bronze members get just about zippo availability, the Silver a class above, with Gold and Plat etc have the best and real chance of getting seats.

If you are referring to award seat availability, there are only two levels. All FF members get the same availability for business and first class awards - these come out of U and Z inventory and are the same for all status FF members. Bronze and Silver status members can redeem economy award seats from the X inventory bucket, while Gold and Platinum members get access to additional economy class awards from the T inventory bucket in addition to X.

But remember that best availability is to avoid peak periods such as school holidays, and to book well in advance (you can book up to 330 days in advance). Many people do this and hence the award seats are quickly consumed by those who plan ahead.

 

[Johnc]

As far as availability for a week for 2 in HNL goes, for example

SYD-HNL QF3 7/9/06 has availability for 2 award seats and on 17/9/06, there is availability for 2 award seats on QF4 HNL-SYD

Dave

Dave
This is exactly my point.
The seats for the 7th have been there for the past 2 weeks.
I have never seen the availabiity for the seats you mention on 17th Sept and on checking again this morning Sat 20th - they are not there.

????

That is why I think QFF is a bit of moving target.

Thanks anyway
John

 

[vt]

Dave
That is why I think QFF is a bit of moving target.

Thanks anyway
John

Bit of a moving target or lack of planning?

As others have said, on this and many other threads, seats are released 330 days ahead, travel dates need to be flxeible and different routes need different tactics and planning.

I have been able to book about 2 international flights for 2 people each year for the last 5 or so years.


I am currently a Silver member as I did not fly much last year, but I have only ever reached Gold. My last trip, Melbourne to Shanghai, Hong Kong to Melbourne in April was booked in August last year.


It takes planning.

 

[JohnK]

This is exactly my point.
The seats for the 7th have been there for the past 2 weeks.
I have never seen the availabiity for the seats you mention on 17th Sept and on checking again this morning Sat 20th - they are not there.

As a QF Gold I cannot see any availability flying on the 7th or returning on the 17th. Don't forget that Dave is QF Platinum so would be able to see more seats available.

Could it also be that everyone gets to see different availability?

 

[Mal]

As a QF Gold I cannot see any availability flying on the 7th or returning on the 17th. Don't forget that Dave is QF Platinum so would be able to see more seats available.

Could it also be that everyone gets to see different availability?

Nah, Gold and Plat with Qantas can see the same availability (T Class which is the "premium" allocation for economy with Qantas, as well as the regular First, Biz and Econ redemption classes).

There are some possible differences if a Plat calls Qantas and asks, but not through the online booking systems.

I think the issue is changing availability. Eg, Joe Pax has already claimed the seats that Dave found.

 

[JohnK]

Nah, Gold and Plat with Qantas can see the same availability (T Class which is the "premium" allocation for economy with Qantas, as well as the regular First, Biz and Econ redemption classes).

There are some possible differences if a Plat calls Qantas and asks, but not through the online booking systems.

I think the issue is changing availability. Eg, Joe Pax has already claimed the seats that Dave found.

OK, availability of award seats for Gold and Platinum members is the same. Thanks.

If you notice my earlier post about 4 days ago I still could not see any availability for QF3 on the 7th or QF4 on the 17th. The OP claims that he has seen availability for QF3 on 7th (for about 2 weeks now) but not for QF4 on 17th.

Which is what prompted me to ask whether everysone sees something different.

 

[Dave Noble]

As a QF Gold I cannot see any availability flying on the 7th or returning on the 17th. Don't forget that Dave is QF Platinum so would be able to see more seats available.

I was looking at X availability. Those seats are now gone

Dave