Buying Qantas tickets online from Bangkok

[dundas]

Qantas has their own policies and is very clear in terms of specifically publishing them online prior to the purchase of the ticket, if that did not happen to you then you have a complaint had the booking been a phone one for instance, however if you choose to ignore the policy as advertised prior to purchase then wish to argue the toss post sale then I hardly think accusations of unfairness are applicable, I note you make no note of having heeded the policy advice online as part of the booking process but at the same time its not clear that you booked online either.

I tried to respond to this post before, and my response got mangled. So apologies, here goes again.

Yes, I booked online after reading in threads similar to this one that it was possible to have a more flexible approach after booking. Stupid me! So yes, it's my problem. But please read on.

You used the term "unfairness". I did not use that term. I did say that I was concerned about bad user design, and in trying to understand possible reasons for that bad user design I asked the question "Who benefits from this?"

And I think bad user design is likely to be perceived by consumers as "unfair". So in that sense I agree with your use of the word.

As for believing what's written on the Qantas website, why should I? Qantas doesn't believe what's written there. For example, on the website we are supposed to go into the office after two days but in the email that's sent out, the time is actually two weeks. Who to believe? It's a mess.

So far the response to my original post is that most posters think that what Qantas is doing is seriously not helpful; and a few posters have tried to defend.
I don't think what Qantas are doing is defensible (and I'm still waiting for the evidence of the "thai government policy" which QF customer care claims is the reason for the behaviour.

if there is such a government policy it would help make the cost of my mistake in booking online easier to bear, knowing that Qantas had to comply with the law in this way, unlike all other airlines operating out of BKK (including Jetstar).

I am still left with the feeling of being scammed, and rather than sitting with that feeling, I am pushing QF Customer Care to come back with evidence. Feeling scammed is another characteristic of bad user design. It does not mean that scamming has taken place, but it is a very unpleasant feeling.

For me it's been a fascinating journey into corporate culture. Qantas is supposed to be in the Customer Service business, so why is it that I can't get anyone to actually advocate a customer focus, and think through the high cost of bad design?

 

[Dave Noble]

When you went to make the booking for an ex BKK booking, before baing able to select flights, you did have to continue through the page which detailed the requirement to visit the office in Bangkok and gave the address which needed to be visited

If this was restriction was unsuitable then it would have been appropriate to call Qantas at that time . Purchase ( using fares available issued in AU ) could be sold by QF AU , alternatively could have contacted a travel agent in Thailand which would be able to issie or find another online booking engine

Given that decided to ignore the warning and chose to book anyway, it is hardly something that Qantas needs to defend since they did make it very clear at the very start. To call it indefensible seems unreasonable. It may be annoying and if it was something that wasn't made clear before booking I would agree that it would be unreasonable

Dave

 

[markis10]

I am sorry but I dont think there is a service issue here or any real issue other than someone arguing the toss after the fact, Qantas made it clear what the conditions of their contract were with you prior to taking your money and you choose to argue the fairness of that contract post sale - Caveat emptor!

Qantas takes the approach that they want business where they are likely to get paid by making sure credit cards are genuine, at the risk of loosing some legitimate business because of perceived onerous conditions, you were made aware of said condition from the onset of your inquiry, the screenshot I posted comes up before any flight availability is shown, if you dont like it why go ahead?

As for the reasons given to the conditions after you have entered into the contract, and the variance of the conditions in your favor by extending the time required to present the card, they are not changing your obligations in Qantas's favor but in the favor of the customer, thats a bonus in my books.

 

[JohnK]

Is it really Thai Government policy? When I fly Bangkok Airways domestically, no such policy is in operation. Does anyone know?

From my understanding it is official policy but not policed.

In the past I have purchased airfares from Chawla Travel, Saveflights and Traveltech2000.

Chawla Travel would not issue my ticket until they physically put my credit card through the merchant facility. Even though the booking was in the system I did not receive the ticketing details until the day before the flight when a courier arrived at the Holiday Inn Silom with a manual credit card processor.

With Saveflights I had to scan my passport and front and back of the credit card along with an authorisation form for the amount to be paid.

From memory Traveltech2000 just required an authorisation but that was a few years ago.

A fairly conclusive answer. Sounds like QF are stretching the truth (again).

Not necessarily.

 

[straitman]

A fairly conclusive answer. Sounds like QF are stretching the truth (again).

Not necessarily.

It sounded good (and appropriate) when I wrote it.

 

[taswegian77]

I purchased last month ex BKK to MEL via SYD F fare for 126000 baht which is really cheap for a First fare. Same situation applied where I needed to front the BKK office within 2 days but I was in Pattaya and had no ability to front the office but I was fully aware of this when booking. I rang qantas premium service and they told me they could do the booking at their end in AU dollars but that would increase the fare by more than $1500 AUD. I then contacted the BKK office and they added a note in my booking that I would front up at the airport and provide my cc there and the booking would be processed on day of departure. I double checked as I did not want to front up and find my booking has disappeared but was assured it would be OK. I fronted and the process took about 20 minutes, maiunly due to the swipe machine not accepting amex and they had to go elsewhere to issue the ticket. Take note that until I fronted on day of departure no money was taken out of my amex account in advance and my ticket was onyl issued after it occured that day.

So they are flexible to this type of situation, well in my case they were.

 

[dundas]

I am sorry but I dont think there is a service issue here or any real issue other than someone arguing the toss after the fact, Qantas made it clear what the conditions of their contract were with you prior to taking your money and you choose to argue the fairness of that contract post sale - Caveat emptor!

Qantas takes the approach that they want business where they are likely to get paid by making sure credit cards are genuine, at the risk of loosing some legitimate business because of perceived onerous conditions, you were made aware of said condition from the onset of your inquiry, the screenshot I posted comes up before any flight availability is shown, if you dont like it why go ahead?

As for the reasons given to the conditions after you have entered into the contract, and the variance of the conditions in your favor by extending the time required to present the card, they are not changing your obligations in Qantas's favor but in the favor of the customer, thats a bonus in my books.

No need to be sorry. I think there's a key point here. I don't have any problem with Qantas ensuring credit cards are genuine.

I would support any company that wants to ensure it complies with the law and that its customers don't de-fraud it. BUT and it's a big BUT the way Qantas have gone about it in the case of their operation in Bangkok is in my opinion quite brutal. This could be a good customer experience but it is not.

So seen from a legal perspective, you are correct, absolutely. Seen from the point of view of making a customer experience as painless as possible - sorry (my turn now), it does not measure up.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I am sorry but I dont think there is a service issue here or any real issue

Qantas takes the approach that they want business where they are likely to get paid by making sure credit cards are genuine

I disagree...the issue is Qantas requiring to sight cc details at a location in Bangkok (other than the airport) TWO days after purchase.

No one is disputing QF wanting to sight your card...the issue is why not sight your card AT CHECK IN like every other airline.

 

[Dave Noble]

I disagree...the issue is Qantas requiring to sight cc details at a location in Bangkok (other than the airport) TWO days after purchase.

No one is disputing QF wanting to sight your card...the issue is why not sight your card AT CHECK IN like every other airline.

because that would make every ticket sold fully refundable with no penalty. if sighting the credit card is a condition of purchase, then until that is done, the person would be able to cancel without penalty I would think

Regardless of why they have the policy, they do have it and they do make it very clear before being allowed to select flights that this is the restriction that they have. It isn't some footnote after purchase

 

[MelUser]

CX have similar requirements when using AMEX to buy ex indonesia.

Sometimes, the office will be flexible and let you fax a front and back of the credit card to them.

I tend to agree - if the policy exists one has to follow it. Or pay ex AUS prices.

You have to remember that QF prefers people to pay ex AUS prices as profit is much higher.

They are hardly going to make it easy to book a cheaper fare in a foreign currency from a different country.

 

[dundas]

As I indicated in another post, this has been an interesting journey.

This is what I have learned:

Qantas does not offer its customers in Thailand a ticketing facility online. It offers a payment facility. If you actually want the ticket you have to go to the bricks and mortar office, or pay AGAIN using the Thai banking system, and wait for a refund.

From posts on this site, we only have conjecture about why Qantas behaves in the manner that it does. And an assertion from QF Customer Care that the reason is “Thai government policy”.They have yet to substantiate that assertion.

One poster used the term “Caveat Emptor”. Too right! I have one word of advice for anyone contemplating buying a ticket from Qantas online here – don't, unless you factor in the cost to you of the “onerous” terms and conditions. There are other airlines offering more frequency and better product – and a more user friendly purchasing experience.

Quite a few people have suggested (using kind words) that I am an idiot for signing up to the “onerous” Qantas terms and conditions. They are right. I am an idiot for signing up to those terms and conditions. And I am a disgruntled customer, let there be no argument about that.

But what does it say about the company that forces its customers to sign up to such “onerous” terms and conditions in order to do business with it? I am a reasonable person and am willing to be persuaded otherwise, but to me it speaks of arrogance, especially when I learn – as one poster has pointed out – that QF allow the card to be shown at the airport when it suits them.

I am still waiting for someone in Qantas to advocate a more customer friendly approach, and bring its practice with the rest of the industry in Bangkok. I am not holding my breath.

My next step: go to a Thai ATM, take out a large amount of cash, go to the bank, and then wait for QF to give me a refund on my credit card. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the conversation so far.

 

[Happy Trails]

As I indicated in another post, this has been an interesting journey.

This is what I have learned:

Qantas does not offer its customers in Thailand a ticketing facility online. It offers a payment facility. If you actually want the ticket you have to go to the bricks and mortar office, or pay AGAIN using the Thai banking system, and wait for a refund.

.

Are you sure that your card has been debited?
I was given to understand that payment would not be processed until the verification had been done.

 

[serfty]

Are you sure that your card has been debited?
I was given to understand that payment would not be processed until the verification had been done.

A pre-authorisation may have occurred.

 

[ColinP]

Are you sure that your card has been debited?
I was given to understand that payment would not be processed until the verification had been done.

One would assume that the CC has not been debited.

Is it not (allegedly) contrary to Thai law for the OP's credit card to have been debited via an online transaction? :shock:

Isn't that why the OP has to front with the card at a bricks and mortar location?

I'd have thought that the ticket would be held (without payment) for two days (or two weeks) until the OP presented the card in Bangkok, as per the t&cs.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

because that would make every ticket sold fully refundable with no penalty. if sighting the credit card is a condition of purchase, then until that is done, the person would be able to cancel without penalty I would think

Regardless of why they have the policy, they do have it and they do make it very clear before being allowed to select flights that this is the restriction that they have. It isn't some footnote after purchase

But sighting the credit card at check-in (or the transfer desk) is permitted for all bookings ex Hong Kong (for example). So in that sense I can't see the difference.

Qantas claims physical presence of the credit card is Thai government policy. However that policy does not seems apply to other airlines such as RJ or CX. Another point in the 'go figure' category.

It also doesn't apply to JQ flights. No requirement there - just book and go.

 

[Dave Noble]

One would assume that the CC has not been debited.

Is it not (allegedly) contrary to Thai law for the OP's credit card to have been debited via an online transaction? :shock:.

Taking an authorisation doesn't mean that the transaction has taken place. They could take a hold on the amount but if not paid for the hold would drop off 5-10 days later

 

[markis10]

But sighting the credit card at check-in (or the transfer desk) is permitted for all bookings ex Hong Kong (for example). So in that sense I can't see the difference.

Qantas claims physical presence of the credit card is Thai government policy. However that policy does not seems apply to other airlines such as RJ or CX. Another point in the 'go figure' category.

It also doesn't apply to JQ flights. No requirement there - just book and go.

Comparing QF to another airline or situation with QF in another country is useless, QF dont do the ticketing in Thailand, they use an agent, other airlines dont and as our resident Thai frequent visitor (JohnK) mentioned, the practice is widespread. You could argue that QF need to change their practice, however I suspect they already have when it comes to ex Thai business, they see JQ is the answer moving forward while QF see BKK as a stopover with very little destination specific traffic to warrant a change with mainline procedures.

 

[auriga]

I think Qantas is being very customer unfriendly in this situation!

 

[dundas]

Thanks everyone, and especially to Sickening Thud.

I called the Qantas agent in BKK and she said that because I had a promotional fare I would have to front up to the office. So that gives some credence to the view that this arrangement is to stop people from booking a cheap fare ex Thailand.

If I don't do what Qantas wants me to do, my credit card isn't debited. The booking "autocancels", and with it any liability I have. Thanks to Sickening Thud for this blinding flash of the obvious.

I wish Qantas had told me that before!

I have booked (and am ticketed) on Thai. Yes, I am paying more money, but in return for that, I get more legroom, a direct flight - and a painless booking process. Not only that, but because the Thai website allows for multi-city itineraries, I'm to fly back to BKK from Sydney, rather than Melbourne.

I'll show my credit card at the airport.

I was keen to book QF because I have been a FF silver member ever since the collapse of Ansett - but not, I'm not going to worry about that.

 

[simongr]

I would be surprised if this was goby policy. Credit card payments are governed by the visa council through PCI DSS contractual requirements between merchants and banks.

In actual fact Thai banks are generally in breach of the pci dss requirements and will be brought to heel some time in the not too distant future...