"Best fare of the day" policy

[Gazza]

This issue has more to do with “Staff Management” than cost reduction.

Many people (including myself) fly on our own time in order to maximize our on the ground working time. We do this for the benefit of our employer/customers/shareholders/staff.

I have spent (I am guessing here) 150 nights away from home and 600 hours plus in the air (on my time) last fin year.

I am well compensated for this and one way my employer recognizes my value is to allow me control over travel arrangements.

I do not abuse this and frequently travel in whY when the cost of J is unreasonable.

This issue has the potential to create ill will among staff that generally have a high value to the company (and consequently a high replacement value). All this can be avoided by looking at the big picture and not just the immediate cost difference.

In short it is a perfect example of why accountants should NEVER be put in charge of companies.

Separately
I don’t object to Virgin for religious/ethical/moral reasons and have flown them but think QF is better for my domestic flights.

 

[StevePER]

To be honest I agree with acampbell. Given that DJs seating has as good as , or better, than Qantas's ( given the information recently provided by crazydave ) , that I don't see how you would be more comfortable on the flight. Also, if you can get them to pay the extra to pre-book exits, then you are prettyt much guaranteed a decent seat.

Fair enough, I guess it's an individual thing. I don't feel as comfortable on DJ for a long flight as I do on QF, so I will resist flying DJ if asked to do so in my own time.

Steve

 

[Groundfeeder]

Another thing - it seems that as long as the original flight is the cheapest then it doesn't matter how many changes at $35 a pop you make. This is the silliest part of the whole deal.

Yeah, even the Govt takes this attitude, with my last month's changes (not my fault) ending up at about 60% of the original fare!

I make my own bookings (thru Govt TA) and find QF generally beats the rest. Our Premier strongly beats the Virgin drum but is finding that none of his exec's partake!

 

[Damien]

Our Premier strongly beats the Virgin drum but is finding that none of his exec's partake!

I wonder if that is due to his perceived view of their fare cost, or their location...

 

[jakeseven7]

Fair enough, I guess it's an individual thing. I don't feel as comfortable on DJ for a long flight as I do on QF, so I will resist flying DJ if asked to do so in my own time.

Steve

I agree with you Steve, and the claimed difference is 1" which to be honest I have never been able to pick and I doubt anyone else could, QF and DJ 73H's seem exactly the same to me (apart from QF J )

For domestic long haul to PER I always make sure I'm on the 747 or any aircraft bigger than the 73H, the larger cabin size makes for a much nicer flight.

 

[acampbel]

...I agree with you Steve, and the claimed difference is 1" which to be honest I have never been able to pick and I doubt anyone else could....

I'm not a psychologist, but I reckon you could tell the difference if the pitch was 1" in favour of Qantas.

My own preference would be the 1" extra pitch without the leather seats, 'coz I just can't get comfy on leather. Why people pay $$$$'s to have them in their cars and homes is a mystery to me.

Also for the claustrophobics amongst us I would rate the Virgin cabin above the standard Qantas one, but obviously both have less air-space than a 747. I wonder if the agoraphobics will freak out when they get on a 380.....


Cheers,

Andrew

 

[NM]

I agree with you Steve, and the claimed difference is 1" which to be honest I have never been able to pick and I doubt anyone else could, QF and DJ 73H's seem exactly the same to me (apart from QF J )

Note that DJ 737s have more leg-room for seats forward of the exit row than for seats behind the exit row. The 1" often mentioned in comparing those behind the exit row or the narrowest pitch found on DJ flights.

For domestic long haul to PER I always make sure I'm on the 747 or any aircraft bigger than the 73H, the larger cabin size makes for a much nicer flight.

You will certainly get the feeling of more space (and more people) on the 747 or 767 aircraft operated by QF. I would prefer to be on a wide-body aircraft for a 3+ hour flight, and for that reason would avoid both QF and DJ 737 flight options if travelling in economy. And of course of QF I have the chance to convert some FF points into a more comfy seat.

 

[freqbugsmasher]

As about half of my flights are on charter airlines, I'd hate to think what the BFOD policy advocates (accountants) would think when my travel submission reads PER to Marvel Loch, back to PER(ON), PER-BNE-Maroonbah(ON)-BNE-PER. The cost PER-BNE-PER (QF in whY) was about 35-40% of the total cost of the trip yet that was the one that required me to show a price spread comparison. The BFOD (~ 3 months old) is good in theory but really a PIA.




However my company has a preferred airline agreement with QF on O/S routings, but a BFOD policy intra-state. Perhaps it’s got something to do with the senior people are “required” on overseas business but it’s good “practice” for the more junior staff in the local business. Or could this be me being cynical??

 

[jakeseven7]

I'm not a psychologist, but I reckon you could tell the difference if the pitch was 1" in favour of Qantas.

My own preference would be the 1" extra pitch without the leather seats, 'coz I just can't get comfy on leather. Why people pay $$$$'s to have them in their cars and homes is a mystery to me.

Also for the claustrophobics amongst us I would rate the Virgin cabin above the standard Qantas one, but obviously both have less air-space than a 747. I wonder if the agoraphobics will freak out when they get on a 380.....

Cheers,

Andrew

Perception is an individual thing and as 1" is so marginal it is definetly not noticeable to me. Maybe when you get to 3+.

I completely agree with you about the leather, I'm not a huge fan of either the DJ and JQ leather seats, give me cloth anyday. And I swear JQ and DJ seats are more padded (but still not as comfortable)

As a mild claustrophobic myself I always try for the bigger QF aircraft obviously all the time..., but QF 73H's are overall lighter (colour) which helps me, the dark leather of DJ and JQ makes their cabins seem to close in around you.

 

[Yada Yada]

Perception is an individual thing and as 1" is so marginal it is definetly not noticeable to me. Maybe when you get to 3+.

I felt the same, thinking such a small difference would not be noticeable. I usually always allocated myself a seat down the back on DJ flights so that I could exit from the rear door. However I've sat up front a few times now and that extra 1" or so on the LHS is definitely noticable if you have longer legs.

I completely agree with you about the leather, I'm not a huge fan of either the DJ and JQ leather seats, give me cloth anyday. And I swear JQ and DJ seats are more padded (but still not as comfortable)

The seat pitch and seat padding thickness was discussed in another thread not long ago - I think it was a post in the Virgin Blue forum and there was a comparison of seat maps. My recollection is that the seats on QF and DJ are identical thickness but those on JQ (A320) are thicker. QF's 737 NG's have a small coat closet at the back on both sides that makes their overall seat pitch a bit smaller than Virgin Blue's.

I prefer the leather seats over the cloth seats. The cloth seats are OK when newish but they look and feel tired after some years in service. The leather seats on O7 were great, better than J seats on QF.

 

[JohnK]

I felt the same, thinking such a small difference would not be noticeable. I usually always allocated myself a seat down the back on DJ flights so that I could exit from the rear door. However I've sat up front a few times now and that extra 1" or so on the LHS is definitely noticable if you have longer legs.

It is noticeable to you but only after someone mentioned that the front of a DJ aircraft has extra 1" legroom than the back of the aircraft. Had you not known this fact I would be surprised if you would still have still noticed such a minuscule difference?

 

[Yada Yada]

It is noticeable to you but only after someone mentioned that the front of a DJ aircraft has extra 1" legroom than the back of the aircraft. Had you not known this fact I would be surprised if you would still have still noticed such a minuscule difference?

You are correct - I would not have noticed it unless it was pointed out to me. I certainly couldn't tell just by walking past the seats when boarding.

However when I sit in the seats at front/left I definitely notice the extra legroom!

 

[jakeseven7]

It is noticeable to you but only after someone mentioned that the front of a DJ aircraft has extra 1" legroom than the back of the aircraft. Had you not known this fact I would be surprised if you would still have still noticed such a minuscule difference

Its all in the mind

 

[oz_mark]

It is noticeable to you but only after someone mentioned that the front of a DJ aircraft has extra 1" legroom than the back of the aircraft. Had you not known this fact I would be surprised if you would still have still noticed such a minuscule difference?

Might depend on your size. For me it is a difference, when sitting straight, of having my knees partly embedded in the seat in front versus not quite touching the seat in front. For every person, there will be a 1" change that makes that difference to them.

 

[JohnK]

Might depend on your size. For me it is a difference, when sitting straight, of having my knees partly embedded in the seat in front versus not quite touching the seat in front. For every person, there will be a 1" change that makes that difference to them.

I am not sure about that oz_mark! To be honest I cannot tell the difference between a cattle class seat on a 737, 747, 767, 777, A320, A330 or A340. They all feel very cramped to me one way or another.

You have seen me. I am not as tall as you but I am larger than most. I am only 5'9" and still struggle with the legroom in cattle class. Believe me when I say 1" would not make any difference or that I would notice it. Forget it when someone reclines. I have to have my knees sideways or in the middle of the back of the seat in front. I feel sorry for tall people, especially one friend who is 6'7" and sits with his knees touching his chin stuck in middle seats most of the time as he has no status on any airline.

I am also unfortunate in that I cannot sit in a seat that is reclined for more than about 30 minutes without being totally uncomfortable. That is why I am going to try to get 23B or 23J on the A330 everytime I fly or whatever is the first aisle seat behind business class on the rest of the aircraft types.

And yes I know. Don't tell me I should find another hobby other than flying. Too late now.

 

[Yada Yada]

Its all in the mind

It most certainly is not!

 

[serfty]

Its all in the mind

... You have seen me. I am not as tall as you but I am larger than most. I am only 5'9" and still struggle with the legroom in cattle class. Believe me when I say 1" would not make any difference or that I would notice it. ...

It most certainly is not!

NO it's not in the mind.

Being 183cm (AKA 6') I am right on the cusp of having knee issues or not with the 31" slimline seats. Sitting upright, my knees generally dont touch the seat in front; but it's close. Those under 6' would normally be fine while those over will have more problems. Yada Yada is somewhat taller than me and certainly would have issues.

A perfect example of this come from experience. When Qantas first configured their 73H's with 12 J seats they set the seats behind at a constant pitch (~31") measured on the floor. Problem was that the row 4 seats have the tray tables stored in the armrests making them about 8 cms longer. Unfortunately for those who scored row 5, this additional need made the row 4 seat backs ~4 cm closer to the row 5 seats. I certainly noticed this in the one or two times I scored row 5; my knees would be constantly hitting the seat in front making the journey most uncomfortable. (FWIW, Qantas have now fixed this problem by moving the row 4 seats forward.)

 

[acampbel]

There is a well known joke regarding the gender debate on the topic of how big an inch is, but it becomes even more subjective when comparing legroom in cattle class.

I am about 5'9" myself and would estimate that I have 4" knee-room on QF flights. Therefore the extra 1" gained when seated in the "blue zone" equates to a 25% improvement. Someone who is vertically un-challenged and has 0" between knees and seat might claim an infinite benefit from that extra inch. OK - the maths are dodgy, but I'm just trying to say that the significance of that 25.4mm will vary wildly between cattle.


Cheers,

Andrew

P.S. JohnK - you either have very long femurs or bad posture, 'coz my knees never come close to touching seat in front .... unless, of course, I do it deliberately.

 

[gibspmuh]

I'm 6'3" and can say I definitely felt the difference between flying on the QF 738's and the DJ 738's. On QF my knees hit the back of the seat in front of me, on DJ there was space available to move my knees. As mentioned earlier, when it's the difference between hitting the seat in front of you or not, that extra inch makes all the difference in the world.

That being said, the benefit of having status on QF is that it's usually possible to get an exit row seat (and unlike on DJ, it's at no extra cost) - and the space in the exit row is far better again. But as others have said, the opportunity to be on a widebody flight is a far more appealing option than being stuck on a 737 of any description. Seating space on all the QF widebodies is better than their 737's too (especially the 330's - decent legroom and seat width).

Another factor in regards to the Best fare of the day policy to consider (it comes into the equation for me anyway) is the excess baggage policies of the two airlines. Flying on QF I've never been pinged for excess weight, whereas DJ are more than happy to apply the charge. If you've got 30+ kilos to check-in (which for me isn't *that* unusual) then that really eats into any savings.

 

[JohnK]

Those under 6' would normally be fine while those over will have more problems.

Normal. I wish that was the case.

If you are not so tall and have weight problems it is more likely that your knees are going to be more forward than normal and would be embedded in the seat in front. Now if they were embedded in the seat in front by 5" inches or 4" inches would still be very uncomfortable and not easily noticed.

Some people have lower back issues and cannot sit back in the seat, or even sit in the same spot for more than 20 minutes. Sometimes the only way these people can be comfortable is to lean as far forward as possible or to lean over half-way into the aisle and then have further discomfort by being constantly knocked over by food trolleys or other passengers.