Best Airline for Frequent Travel in Australia (split thread)

[Flashback]

As far as I am aware, the bar opening times in domestic at least are 12 noon.

Which it has only just recently changed back to. It was 2pm for a while, after the new Domestic J lounges opened.

 

[flying foon]

Which it has only just recently changed back to. It was 2pm for a while, after the new Domestic J lounges opened.

Might just look at flying Skippy again then.

 

[dk4]

I am aware that some infrequent fliers are confused in the SYD T3 QP, where the sign states opening isn't until 4pm.

With the change of entry location (when the J lounge opened) infrequent visitors may not realise that you can turn right and head around the to smaller bar, which still opens at the earlier time. (Once they see the "closed sign" on the what "appears" to be the "main bar area"; next to the self serve food, they simply give in.)

 

[NM]

As far as I am aware, the bar opening times in domestic at least are 12 noon.

It is now, but has not always been. Has been 1pm, 3pm and probably other times over the years. My points was that the person commenting on not being able to get a beer until 5pm has not been Platinum for at least 3 years so the current bar opening times (noon) are not relevant to their 3+ year old experience as the times have changed multiple times over those years. In fact it used to vary by state/lounge.

 

[ShaneN]

On the question of whether DJ is cheaper than QF, I would like to cite the example of SYD - BNE on 22 December 2010. I am well aware that one route on one day (particularly just before Christmas), booked at one time, is not representative. However it is a real example - I am flying that leg on that day.

From the websites today, QF have 22 flights, DJ 18. Of these, 17 are at the same time, give or take 5 minutes, and are therefore comparable.

The cheapest Qantas fare (Red e deal) is $101, available for 13 of the 17 flights. 3 flights are available for $139, while the least expensive seat on QF520 at 1105 is $204 (no Red e deals on this flight).

The cheapest Virgin Blue fare is $116 (Blue Saver), and it is available only for 3 early morning flights. Other flights are either $135 (4 flights) or $156 (10 flights).

There are only 2 flights (0930 and 1100) where DJ is less expensive. (With the qualification of on this route on this day booking now.)

I think the answer is that there is no answer - shop around.

 

[straitman]

I think the answer is that there is no answer - shop around.

A good summary IMHO.

 

[John Reid]

Yes shop around I agree. For FF there are other things to factor in as has been said several times before so not going to dredge all that up.

I'm a cyclist and so take my bike with me for a trip that's 4-5 days or longer. QF no charge even on cheapest Red-E Deal (QP SG). Equiv cheapest DJ flight requires extra $ for the bike regardless of status.

Add up the sums and it is better for me to fly QF Red-E-Deal than the cheapest DJ flight....

 

[777]

Probably mad to weigh in on the DJ side of things here given this boards overwhelming bias towards QF. But i am a very happy and very loyal DJ customer.

Firstly, anyone who says "i can't justify spending $10 or $20 less on a ticket because i don't get access to the Qantas Club" is kidding themselves. There's a few posts of that nature. Virgin Blue has a very good lounge network in all the mainland capitals. If you are a member. If you are a member of the QP and not the lounge and using that as the basis for a "comparison" you are not making an actual comparison!

As a DJ Gold i get a pretty good deal from the airline:

* I get free lounge access,
* I get a 32kg baggage allowance (even on the Go! Fares),
* I haven't had to sit further back than row 4 since they upgraded their OLCI to recognise status,
* I have never missed my preferred aisle seat either.
* I get free food and booze in the lounge,
* I always get a seat in the lounge - it has never been overcrowded in my experience
* I am often offered the extra leg room seats or can get them by asking if their free and i ask early enough,
* I get lounge access in most of the ports i visit,
* I get the SAME AIRLINE for every place i fly to (I fly MEL-NTL often and there is no QF on that route - it's all JQ these days)
* I get points for every flight (see above: much of my flying doesn't qualify for QF FF points because it's cheaper fares between MEL and NTL)
* I actually prefer aspects of the DJ product. Live to Air - though it costs - in particular is an infinitely better product. I really appreciate the option to watch an ashes test, a footy game, or the breaking news as IFE and i actually schedule some of my longer flights around when there's something on worth watching.

I pay for my own tickets. In my experience DJ fares are consistently cheaper than QF. I probably do what a lot of you do in reverse - i can't justify $10 or $20 less on QF to give up the perks but it's very very very rare that it happens. Yes it's possible to find examples that aren't particularly when QF is on sale and DJ isn't, on the whole JQ is cheaper than DJ which is cheaper than QF.

If you are flying domestically, and you fly enough to qualify for gold on DJ It's a good deal and a good program IMHO.

Some caveats. If you fly a lot internationally to places outside DJ's network and partnerships then QF is a much more attractive option. DJs partnerships with Virgin Atlantic, Delta and (hopefully soon) Air NZ mean means the UK and the US are well covered - i get lounge access and status recognition in a lot more places than before but it's not a patch on One World. Not a big deal for me but it is for some and i totally understand that.

If you're often flying to and from ports where there is a QP but no DJ Lounge that would be a big factor to sway me towards QF. Last year i made a couple of trips to CNS and was a bit envious of QP folks while i was sitting in the terminal. Not an issue in most of the other places i visited though and not enough for me to consider switching.

There are good reasons to choose one over the other. QF doesn't always win hands down nor should DJ. However, i think it's very important that all of you who are comparing your status and benefits on QF to going without them on DJ you are staking the deck to justify the fact that you are locked in to one side already. There is another side of that story.

 

[pauly7]

Probably mad to weigh in on the DJ side of things here given this boards overwhelming bias towards QF. But i am a very happy and very loyal DJ customer. .

No one is going to think you are mad for expressing an opinion

At the end of the day for your specific circumstances and values you have made the choice for what you believe to be the best for you!

Everyone is different and evaluates things differently. I guarantee there are people out there in a *similar* position to you who much prefer the QF group.

So thanks for your opinion

 

[medhead]

Probably mad to weigh in on the DJ side of things here given this boards overwhelming bias towards QF. But i am a very happy and very loyal DJ customer.

Firstly, anyone who says "i can't justify spending $10 or $20 less on a ticket because i don't get access to the Qantas Club" is kidding themselves. There's a few posts of that nature. Virgin Blue has a very good lounge network in all the mainland capitals. If you are a member. If you are a member of the QP and not the lounge and using that as the basis for a "comparison" you are not making an actual comparison!

As a DJ Gold i get a pretty good deal from the airline:

Thanks from me for the opinion as well. It's great to hear of you situation.

I think that for my situation DJ is a much more expensive prospect. My paid membership of the QC was cheaper by a long way than The Lounge membership. It was also much cheaper for me to make gold with Qantas than Virgin, $5500 vs $9000. So even if my flights on DJ this year have been $13 cheaper on average than qantas; getting that gold status (with all the added extras) 30 flights sooner with qantas more then makes up for the price difference.

Yes DJ have been $13 cheaper for me but that would be more than taken up by a $3 coffee and buying live2air. Of course, I load my viewing pleasure onto my phone so maybe I wouldn't buy live2air anyway. In terms of fare pricing it is true the only really comparison is during non sale times and I've found that to be a mixed bag with DJ cheaper earlier this year and qantas cheaper for later this year.

 

[nlagalle]

There are good reasons to choose one over the other. QF doesn't always win hands down nor should DJ. However, i think it's very important that all of you who are comparing your status and benefits on QF to going without them on DJ you are staking the deck to justify the fact that you are locked in to one side already. There is another side of that story.

Indeed there are. Each airline has pros for that user. At the end of the day we are lucky to have a choice on who we want to fly with.

 

[PineappleSkip]

This is getting far too conciliatory. In the interests of unbalance, I'd like to weigh in on the QF side...

No doubt Extracta has a point for international. Trouble is that their statement that qantas is highly expensive wasn't limited to international flights.

Challenge! Here in POM, travelling about monthly to usually BNE, less often CNS, I am surrounded by DJ drones who love to tell me that "Virgin is cheaper". I explain how I regularly compare and have regularly got better fares with QF or PX from the comparison. If I can remember I quote the fares. And then they look at me and say "yes, but virgin is cheaper". DOH!:evil:. OK drones, prepare for a quote.

First a preface, what is most valuable to me is my time, specifically leave time. This puts DJ at an inherent disadvantage because they only do BNE-POM four days a week and only in the middle of the day. That means that I lose the best part of a day going down and the best part of a day going back. Same problem with QF/PX oin the way back but they have mornings and a couple of late afternoone on the way down.

Second, yes Virgin do excellent fares if you can get a go! fare. Not a lot of seats and they tend to book out early. If you cant, the blue saver is more expensive than the lowest PX Paradise fare, which you can generally get on most flights if you book say 3-4 weeks out.

Ok so I'm gonna book a weekend in AU. Lets look at POM-BNE. I will do the 1700 Thu 25 Nov ex POM and the 1025 Sun 28 Nov ex BNE

PX $573 paradise fare
QF $556 red e-deal

Now if I wait till Friday I can get the DJ aircraft
DJ $380 Go! fare
CG $419 wild fare

Ok cheaper this time, but I still have to take half of Friday off because I have to get to the airport at lunchtime. And the killer is that I only get one full day in BNE. What sort of weekend is that? Not one that would justify saving only 1/3 of the airfare.

OK I don't want to take that day's leave, or can't take it, so my only weekend in AU option is POM-CNS and the Fri evening flight out and Monday early flight back. My options - out Fri 26/11 back Mon 29/11 are
PX $584 paradise fare
CG $475 value saver fare
QF $400 red e-deal
DJ - sorry no service
I can also utilise QF points POM-CNS, doing that I trash
8000 points + $344/352 returning CG/PX - no OW e-deals with QF

These are references to return fares booked out of POM in PGK, converted to AUD at a rate that takes into account the AMEX exchange rate I got last month and the conversion charge - 1AUD=2.21PGK.

Sorry to be long winded and it doesn't shut the drones up anyway. But I can at least itemise why I use now use QF as the value for money option for me even without the free meals or the lounge access. Oh and now they undercut PX with the red edeals I'll get my SG status back easy and wont need to shell out for executive club to get into the same lounge.

Cheers skip

 

[777]

I am surrounded by DJ drones who love to tell me that "Virgin is cheaper". I explain how I regularly compare and have regularly got better fares with QF or PX from the comparison. If I can remember I quote the fares. And then they look at me and say "yes, but virgin is cheaper". DOH!:evil:. OK drones, prepare for a quote.

Now if I wait till Friday I can get the DJ aircraft
DJ $380 Go! fare
CG $419 wild fare

Ok cheaper this time, but I still have to take half of Friday off because I have to get to the airport at lunchtime.

Sorry. BUt this is weird. In order to prove that DJ isn't cheaper, you've only quoted an example where they are cheaper. Then gone on to explain that you prefer QF because of other reasons (time, convenience, you can use QF points), etc. All those reasons are fair enough but you aren't actually helping your own point there.

No wonder the DJ Drones are so difficult to argue with!

777.

 

[Smackbum]

Sorry. BUt this is weird. In order to prove that DJ isn't cheaper, you've only quoted an example where they are cheaper. Then gone on to explain that you prefer QF because of other reasons (time, convenience, you can use QF points), etc. All those reasons are fair enough but you aren't actually helping your own point there.

No wonder the DJ Drones are so difficult to argue with!

777.

People like to justify their choice with selective facts - that's perfectly normal. I for example could state that if you wanted to fly from Sydney to Melbourne next week for business (depart between 6am to 7:30am and return from 6pm to 7:30pm) then by choosing Virgin over Qantas you would save :-

$63 on Monday
$128 on Tuesday
$134 on Wednesday
$104 on Thursday
$61 on Friday

This is the most competitive route in Australia for business travel and a 1-week lead time is fairly typical. I am travelling the route this week and paid a bit extra (for non-relevant reasons) to fly on Qantas on the way down, but even access to the QF pub and dinner/drink on the flight could not make me justify a $120 premium on the return so I am flying Virgin back to Sydney.

Maybe there are routes/times when the difference is not so stark or may even favour Qantas, but not in my recent experience.

But similar to the majority of the subscribers I fly Qantas most of the time for purely selfish reasons. Pity most here can't admit the same. As the saying goes "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

 

[777]

People like to justify their choice with selective facts - that's perfectly normal. I for example could state that if you wanted to fly from Sydney to Melbourne next week for business (depart between 6am to 7:30am and return from 6pm to 7:30pm) then by choosing Virgin over Qantas you would save :-

$63 on Monday
$128 on Tuesday
$134 on Wednesday
$104 on Thursday
$61 on Friday

This is the most competitive route in Australia for business travel and a 1-week lead time is fairly typical. I am travelling the route this week and paid a bit extra (for non-relevant reasons) to fly on Qantas on the way down, but even access to the QF pub and dinner/drink on the flight could not make me justify a $120 premium on the return so I am flying Virgin back to Sydney.

Maybe there are routes/times when the difference is not so stark or may even favour Qantas, but not in my recent experience.

But similar to the majority of the subscribers I fly Qantas most of the time for purely selfish reasons. Pity most here can't admit the same. As the saying goes "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

Which is reasonable and makes sense. I think there is a lot of sentiment/ pre-locked in choices being passed off as analysis of the two programs. I'm guilty of it myself to some extent: my initial reason to switching to DJ was the QF left the route i was using most to Jetstar so i was unable to earn any QF points on a significant chunk of my flights if i wanted to. I have been known to pay more for a DJ fly than a QF one for the perks.

However i am very happy with DJ and find it laughable that people suggest to others to avoid in because you don't get the same perks. As a gold FF i get most of the same perks on DJ that you all get on QF. That's the apples to apples comparison.

Every time i read a post that says "DJ is not as good because you can't use the Qantas Club" i laugh and it happens daily around here.

I understand that there are good reasons not to switch but if you are a new FF (which i effectively was about 2-3 years ago) then there are a lot of very good reasons to go with DJ.

Perhaps the best reason for going for status on Dj: the whole program is a lot less crowded. Priority lines are one or two deep, preferred seats are easy to get, the lounge is rarely full, and you aren't competing to use your points with every person in the country who shops.

777.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Sorry. BUt this is weird. In order to prove that DJ isn't cheaper, you've only quoted an example where they are cheaper.

Yeh, good point, DJ has been very annoying and dumped a lot of go! fares on the market. I might hunt up a weekend when they're not there. For travel two months earlier; i.e. late September; they were quoting $630 return.

Glad I commented that my post was in the interests of unbalance

What I left out, if I was being balanced, was that at any given time anyone could be cheaper, just depends what fare buckets they have left. And my past experience was that often the bargain wasn't DJ

The lounge access and priority check in - and having one big pool of points rather than two medium ones - are my purely selfish reasons for sticking with QF


cheers skip

 

[docjames]

I think the answer is that there is no answer - shop around.

A good summary IMHO.

This whole thread (amusing as it is) illustrates why airlines are fragmenting their fare offerings.

One person wants to take a bicycle.
One person wants extra baggage.
One person wants to use a particular lounge.
One person is restricted by BFOD.
One person only wants to fly DJ/QF/TT/JQ (choose 1).


Basically there is no one "best" - there is only best for an individual and their circumstances.

The tradeoffs each individual is perpared to make of feature vs price is an individual decision. So no one airline will fit everyone.



Aren't we all glad there is (some sort of) choice in the market? :shock:

 

[dajop]

And to quote my 3yo niece who was flying last night with her dad on Virgin Blue, she likes the "big red plane" and got most excited when she saw a model of it alongside all the other ones sitting in the cabinet. And when they left for the airport she reminded us that she was going to get the big red plane .... now she has flown a bit on QF, QF link 717 & Dash 8s and even Rex so she knows what she's talking about ;-)

 

[medhead]

Which is reasonable and makes sense. I think there is a lot of sentiment/ pre-locked in choices being passed off as analysis of the two programs. I'm guilty of it myself to some extent: my initial reason to switching to DJ was the QF left the route i was using most to Jetstar so i was unable to earn any QF points on a significant chunk of my flights if i wanted to. I have been known to pay more for a DJ fly than a QF one for the perks.

However i am very happy with DJ and find it laughable that people suggest to others to avoid in because you don't get the same perks. As a gold FF i get most of the same perks on DJ that you all get on QF. That's the apples to apples comparison.

Every time i read a post that says "DJ is not as good because you can't use the Qantas Club" i laugh and it happens daily around here.

I understand that there are good reasons not to switch but if you are a new FF (which i effectively was about 2-3 years ago) then there are a lot of very good reasons to go with DJ.

777.

As someone who would have said I prefer qantas because of QC access let me qualify that position with when the price difference is no more than $30 I prefer qantas because I can use my ultra cheap corporate QC membership.

I would have to laugh when you say that Velocity is a good program for a new FF, given that it can be up to $3500 cheaper on Qantas to attain the equivalent gold status, even with paying more for the qantas flights. That is a comparison of apples and apples. If we want to talk about the cost of equivalent status then qantas wins hands down.

 

[777]

As someone who would have said I prefer qantas because of QC access let me qualify that position with when the price difference is no more than $30 I prefer qantas because I can use my ultra cheap corporate QC membership.

I would have to laugh when you say that Velocity is a good program for a new FF, given that it can be up to $3500 cheaper on Qantas to attain the equivalent gold status, even with paying more for the qantas flights. That is a comparison of apples and apples. If we want to talk about the cost of equivalent status then qantas wins hands down.

That would depend on the circumstances in which you acquire it. DJ offers deals on corporate lounge rates as well - not that it's relevant to me. Is that what you are comparing to? Or are you again comparing a negotiated discount to an advertised price. If so, that is apples to oranges again.

When you say "it can be up to $3500" cheaper to to attain equivalent status, two things: what's the basis for the comparison? Are you comparing the cheapest possible way to wrack up the SC's if you an FFophile or one that actually matches the ways in which someone who actually wants and needs to fly for work will use the airline? Also, i need to be convinced that the sheer number of people who share top tier status is actually good thing.