Besieged Qantas directors to meet in NY on crisis items

[moa999]

I would note that a number of the older International 747s (non ERs) have had Premium Economy installed, so unless the fuel price has changed things significantly, and thus unlikely heading for a near term retirement

Source: QFlyer - Unofficial Qantas Group Fleet Information

 

[markis10]

I would note that a number of the older International 747s (non ERs) have had Premium Economy installed,

No one is going to be in a hurry to buy OJH, and adding a new cabin is hardly going to reduce a resale value, as opposed to a hull retirement which is not being mooted for any airframe at this stage.

The earlier airframes are two years older, in some cases they are only 12 months away from the next d check as well.

 

[NYCguy]

Unless I'm mistaken, SYD-JNB and SYD-EZE would not be applicable for ETOPS usage...

If there were 330-minute ETOPS, those routes would be OK for the big twins, but that's a pretty big if, for the moment at least.

 

[maninblack]

I believe max ETOPS for any 777 is 207 minutes at this point (could be 240) so those big southern ocean routes are out, unless they fly a more northerly and therefore longer route. I assume this is why airline like LA, SA, Mauritius and Tahiti Nui have selected A340's for their fleets.

Qantas has around 10 744's that are less than 10 years old. I am certain there would have been no plans to retire these any time soon, whether that has changed, well we will see eventually.

There are a huge number of 744's out there doing major longhaul for many airlines, they will all have similar issues and they can't just retire them all and get new planes.

 

[pauly7]

I have no knowledge of who's ordered what as far as 777's go .... wonder though if QF is a vulture circling for some carcasses as cash strapped airlines go to the wall, or at the very least cancel or defer orders ....

Haha - possibly, and according to some analysts QF may be able to pick up DJ's 777's as reported today (hope not since I am booked on one!)

'In the scenario where jet fuel hovers around $US185 a barrel, Citi values Virgin Blue at 30c a share and warns that the airline, in an "extreme move", may be forced to withdraw from its yet-to-be-launched US route and from New Zealand.'

Scenario games at Virgin Blue | smh.com.au

 

[oz_mark]

Scenario games at Virgin Blue | smh.com.au

Loved the quote calling the Qantas fleet decrepit

unlike Qantas which can retire its decrepit fleet of fully depreciated jets

 

[Mal]

Haha - possibly, and according to some analysts QF may be able to pick up DJ's 777's as reported today (hope not since I am booked on one!)

Can't really see it happening. There is too much at stake (Virgin name, Richard B, Brett G etc). Methinks another Analyst has been playing with his crystal balls a little too much.

 

[pauly7]

Loved the quote calling the Qantas fleet decrepit

I know it was hilarious, although I have to say with all the refurbished cabins rolling out and paint jobs they don't look decrepit at all - brand new even!

 

[ANstar]

I would note that a number of the older International 747s (non ERs) have had Premium Economy installed, so unless the fuel price has changed things significantly, and thus unlikely heading for a near term retirement

Doesnt mean much really - QF refitted VH-EBU and then scrapped it shortly after

'In the scenario where jet fuel hovers around $US185 a barrel, Citi values Virgin Blue at 30c a share and warns that the airline, in an "extreme move", may be forced to withdraw from its yet-to-be-launched US route and from New Zealand.'

I think it would be an extreme move - they have already invested well over $100M in V Asutralia so dont see them pulling out

 

[Flying Fox]

Methinks another Analyst has been playing with his crystal balls a little too much.

Ha ha... now that's comedy!

 

[NM]

I think it would be an extreme move - they have already invested well over $100M in V Asutralia so dont see them pulling out

If DJ cannot make money from V-Australia operating 777-300ERs trans-Pacific, then there is a serious management or operations problem. They will be using the most fuel efficient aircraft (by passenger count, at least until QF start the A380 ops) on a route with strong demand in all sectors (business, leisure etc) and still obtaining good fares.

 

[dajop]

If DJ cannot make money from V-Australia operating 777-300ERs trans-Pacific, then there is a serious management or operations problem. They will be using the most fuel efficient aircraft (by passenger count, at least until QF start the A380 ops) on a route with strong demand in all sectors (business, leisure etc) and still obtaining good fares.

Here here.

If you look at what QF & NZ charge for trans pac flights across all cabins (and the fact there are not likely to be other competitors entering the route any time soon with the state of US airline industry), if V-Australia can't make money out of it then how will airlines anywhere in the world be making any money out of any routes?

 

[pauly7]

They will be using the most fuel efficient aircraft (by passenger count, at least until QF start the A380 ops) on a route with strong demand in all sectors (business, leisure etc) and still obtaining good fares.

I agree - and I think that they won't stuff around with half assed premium economy attempts a la the domestic airline Virgin Blue. They have indicated it will be a fully fledged busines product (thank god ).

I just hope they can detach the 'cheap' stigma from Virgin in order to convince business they are the real deal.

 

[maninblack]

Totally agree V will go for the jugular here and this will be a money maker for them. They have had plenty of time to assess the QF new products and have the opportunity to match it or better it. In J it will certainly be a full service flat bed cabin, hopefully not the herringbone layout like NZ (though I suspect it will be) and they will pull a few tricks in Y too I suspect like a 34 inch seat pitch.

Having had a look at the QF A380 layout, it does not excite. Cattle class is still cattle class only bigger and J gets a better Skybed but in a big airBUS cabin in the rear section that provides no intimacy like upstairs in a 744 or the smaller downstairs cabins on some layouts of the 744. I reckon after the initial excitement there will be no thrill being on the A380. With fares a few thousand under QF in J V Aus will win fans quickly if they get it right.

It would be ironic if there was no major increase in demand trans Pacific over the next few years and V undercut QF and gained a big market share, UA continued it's service with its new seat product only to leave the QF A380's somewhat less than full and looking like the white elephant that some industry people predicted.

 

[simongr]

With fares a few thousand under QF in J V Aus will win fans quickly if they get it right.

It would be ironic if there was no major increase in demand trans Pacific over the next few years and V undercut QF and gained a big market share, UA continued it's service with its new seat product only to leave the QF A380's somewhat less than full and looking like the white elephant that some industry people predicted.

Wasn't there some discussion here that the pricing wasnt 100's cheaper than QF and was in fact comparable? I did the comparisons myself I believe...

 

[maninblack]

Wasn't there some discussion here that the pricing wasnt 100's cheaper than QF and was in fact comparable? I did the comparisons myself I believe...

Just did a random comparison.

SYD-LAX Jan 15 return Feb 15 VA best fare in J is $9996 QF best is $13977.

Thats more than a few thousand :!:

V is $2471 in Y for those dates, QF best is $3113

Big difference again.

V is $3996 for Premium, $5398 on QF

If i was traveling from SYD I would choose VA in a flash on those prices.

 

[Flying Fox]

So we know that V Australia are going to be using 777-300s but has any information been released about their seating & service etc (or have I missed the announcement)?

 

[simongr]

I dont believe any details have been released as yet.

 

[oz_mark]

Over and above anything on their website ( V Australia > In-Flight Services ), and the description of product there, i don't believe there is anymore to go on at the moment.

 

[NM]

Having had a look at the QF A380 layout, it does not excite. Cattle class is still cattle class only bigger ...

Not sure I agree here. The A380 has 332 economy class seats on the same 3x4x3 layout as the 747. That is only 17 more seats than the Kangaroo 3-class 744 and is actually 24 less seats than the 2-class 744 and a whopping 68 less economy seats than QF's 747-300.

So yes, its still economy, but not necessarily "bigger" in terms of numbers of passengers, just perhaps bugger in terms of cabin space.