Baggage Allowances Help? [MSC rules etc.]

[thewinchester]

One of the oft-asked questions is how much of a baggage allowance do I get when interlining. The answers to this question change from carrier to carrier, but thanks to a new IATA rule effective from April 1 a lot of the complexity will be removed thanks to the new most significant carrier (MSC) rule.

IATA rolls out new baggage policies for interline journeys
Originally published on asia.businesstraveller.com 01/04/2011

From April 1, IATA's member carriers will adopt a new baggage allowances and charges policy for interline journeys proposed by the international body.
The new Baggage Rule Resolution 302, intended to standardise baggage policies for passengers flying multiple carriers, outlines that if the baggage provisions of the different carriers are not the same, the policies of the Most Significant Carrier (MSC) will apply. The MSC is defined as the first carrier crossing IATA Areas or Sub-areas.

IATA dissects the world into three areas: Area 1 covers the Americas, Area 2 covers Europe, the Middle East and Africa and Area 3 covers Asia-Pacific. These are subdivided into Sub-areas. Area 1 is divided into USA, Canada, Mexico, Caribbean Islands, Central America and South Americas. Area 2 is divided into Europe, Middle East and Africa. Area 3 is divided into Japan and Korea, Southeast Asia, India and Southeast Pacific (Australasia).

The MSC would be the first carrier flying the longest leg either between the three areas or the sub-areas. For travel within sub-areas, the policies of the carrier on the first international sector would apply. For example, flying from Beijing to Singapore via Hong Kong - all within a single sub-area - on Dragonair and Singapore Airlines, Dragonair would be the MSC as it would be the first to cross an international border.

I'm under the working assumption that if the MSC gives the pax an additional allowance thanks to FFP benefits, this allowances follows for the entire interlined journey (assuming all carriers on the ticket are IATA members).

So what does everyone think - finally a easy system for working out how much baggage you can actually take, or just another pain in the cough getting in the way of things you already know?

 

[anat0l]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

The important factor here is that it depends on interline. You need to know if a carrier will interline with the next one, and in some cases that is only under certain conditions.

Also, operating carriers is important vs. codeshares.

At least, this is how I read the new resolution.

How do you explain the concept of MSC to normal people?

 

[NM]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

The important factor here is that it depends on interline. You need to know if a carrier will interline with the next one, and in some cases that is only under certain conditions.

This will depend primarily on whether its sold as a single ticket. If multiple tickets, there is no interline so this new policy does not apply.

Also note that the MSC for a return journey may be different to the outward journey, potentially resulting in different allowances for outbound and return directions.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

This will depend primarily on whether its sold as a single ticket. If multiple tickets, there is no interline so this new policy does not apply.

Also note that the MSC for a return journey may be different to the outward journey, potentially resulting in different allowances for outbound and return directions.

Multiple tickets does not necessarily deny interline, although you are right that it can have an impact and it is much safer to have everything on one ticket.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

This will depend primarily on whether its sold as a single ticket. If multiple tickets, there is no interline so this new policy does not apply.

Also note that the MSC for a return journey may be different to the outward journey, potentially resulting in different allowances for outbound and return directions.

This now becomes quite relevant as BA are switching to the piece system so if you fly MEL QF SIN BA LHR the majority carrier is BA therefore the piece system is applied.

I don't know whether SIN to LHR is just one piece or two and the maximum weight you are allowed to have per piece ie is it 2 pieces @ 23 kgs or 32 kgs or 1 piece at 30 kilos.

Don't know whether it's a two piece system as per flying to/from USA, Canada or North & South America.

I can't see the separate booking scenario being an issue eg in the case of one ticket MEL/SIN/MEL on QF then a separate one SIN/LHR/SIN on BA, even though they are not in the one booking, as they are both members of OneWorld baggage may still be through checked MEL/LHR.

The only issues are if travelling QF and you have bought separate tickets in a separate pnr with a non One World carrier then you'd have to collect your luggage ex the QF flight then recheck it with your onward carrier.

eg ADL QF SYD AC YVR one pnr - bags okay for interline, however ADL QF SYD one pnr then SYD AC YVR in another then bags are only checked to SYD.

eg PER QF SIN SQ SGN one pnr - bags okay for interline, however PER QF SIN one pnr then SIN SQ SGN in another then bags are only
check to SIN.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

Not only does it affect the baggage allowance, but you also get to use the excess baggage charge policy of the MSC. CX have a couple of examples of the effects (and the exceptions that apply to the US sometimes):

See: Check In Baggage, Checked Luggage, Baggage Allowance - Cathay Pacific
and: irasia.com - Cathay Pacific Airways Limited

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

.....
I'm under the working assumption that if the MSC gives the pax an additional allowance thanks to FFP benefits, this allowances follows for the entire interlined journey (assuming all carriers on the ticket are IATA members).

So what does everyone think - finally a easy system for working out how much baggage you can actually take, or just another pain in the cough getting in the way of things you already know?

I don't want to say I'm pessimistic, more playing devil's advocate but I'd almost put money on the fact that even if you had QF WP allowance of 38 kgs that eg BA would only recognise the normal 23 kgs allowance you would receive on a whY QF ticket if QF were the MSC however if BA were the MSC you'd get their maximum amount for the piece system which may be 32kg(?) however not 38kg.

Again it depends on BA's definition of piece system & a) is it one or two pieces & b) what's the maximum weight of each piece.

There are just too many idiosyncrasies involved with air travel what with extra ff allowances which may only be recognised by the carrier who's ff program you're in & again maybe only if you're flying on their metal.

Other times airlines have their own local rules which are not published such as word of mouth fares. Also on certain SAA flights ex JNB the airline will give you 30 kg not 20 kg but if it's not published then if interlining on another airline first who would be responsible for tagging your bags through to their final destination, they would want to start charging after 20 kilos.

A real Pandora's box this one!

 

[NM]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

Multiple tickets does not necessarily deny interline, although you are right that it can have an impact and it is much safer to have everything on one ticket.

Interlining is not just the through-checking of baggage. An Interline agreement exists so that a journey involving two or more carriers can be plated on a sing;e ticket. That is what an interline agreement means. As part of the interline agreement, the participating airlines agree to through-check bags, as well as agreeing a mechanism for sharing the revenue.

So if you have purchased separate tickets, an IATA Interline agreement does not apply and you have no recourse to insist on the terms of an interline agreement being applied to your journey, even if the airlines involved in your separate tickets do have an interline agreement on place for that combination of sectors.

So even if the first airline choses to through-check your bags, because its separate tickets there is no IATA interline agreement in force for your journey and hence this IATA policy does not apply.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

I have found that using FLounge first checkin they don't oncharge additional weight, when the reality is that they should.

Just an experience of mine and underlies OZbeachbabes comment that it is a minefield out there!

 

[wingspan]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

How do you explain the concept of MSC to normal people?

wingspan likes this

 

[thewinchester]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

How do you explain the concept of MSC to normal people?

The longest trip you take as part of a single ticket where you cross a big regional border.

There, wasn't that hard to explain it

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

Interlining is not just the through-checking of baggage. An Interline agreement exists so that a journey involving two or more carriers can be plated on a sing;e ticket. That is what an interline agreement means. As part of the interline agreement, the participating airlines agree to through-check bags, as well as agreeing a mechanism for sharing the revenue.

So if you have purchased separate tickets, an IATA Interline agreement does not apply and you have no recourse to insist on the terms of an interline agreement being applied to your journey, even if the airlines involved in your separate tickets do have an interline agreement on place for that combination of sectors.

So even if the first airline choses to through-check your bags, because its separate tickets there is no IATA interline agreement in force for your journey and hence this IATA policy does not apply.

Even if you have separate pnrs it would still be possible to have your bags through checked to the final destination but I'm not 100% certain if you also obtain boarding passes for the sectors on the subsequent airline even if they had an IATCI agreement to do so.

I'm not convinced airlines enforce the above IATA interline agreement even though they have the right to do so.

eg BNE QF CNS (one pnr)
CNS CX x/HKG CX LHR (one pnr)

It might be one of those cases where theoretically it sounds good but where you need a guinea pig or even sacrificial lamb to test the waters with an actual scenario. Any volunteers for the cause?

 

[Mal]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

It really is a minefield. No idea if it benefits me or not... and tbh, just seems like it is unnecessarily complicated.

It's good IATA is changing things, but really wonder whether it will help overall.

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

The longest trip you take as part of a single ticket where you cross a big regional border.

There, wasn't that hard to explain it

The explanation, while simple, is also wrong. It has nothing to do with being the 'longest trip'.

It is:

The first carrier crossing the IATA Tariff Area (for travel across one Tariff Area).
or
The first carrier crossing the IATA Sub-area (for travel within a Tariff Area).
or
The first carrier flying an international sector (for travel within a Sub Area).

For journeys originating from or with the furthest point being in the United States, exceptions imposed by the Department of Transportation of the US Government will be in place:

• The MSC must be the Marketing Carrier for codeshare flights:
• The whole journey should be taken into account when determining the MSC even if the traveller checks out their baggage at one point during the journey.

 

[NM]

Re: Baggage allowances for interlining to become more predictable

Even if you have separate pnrs it would still be possible to have your bags through checked to the final destination but I'm not 100% certain if you also obtain boarding passes for the sectors on the subsequent airline even if they had an IATCI agreement to do so.

I'm not convinced airlines enforce the above IATA interline agreement even though they have the right to do so.

eg BNE QF CNS (one pnr)
CNS CX x/HKG CX LHR (one pnr)

It might be one of those cases where theoretically it sounds good but where you need a guinea pig or even sacrificial lamb to test the waters with an actual scenario. Any volunteers for the cause?

yes, it is quite common for some airlines to through-check bags on different tickets. But that has nothing to do with an IATA interline agreement.

An IATA interline agreement only comes into play when the ticket is sold under the terms of the interline agreement. If a ticket is sold under the terms of an interline agreement, then all the terms of that agreement should be fulfilled, including the distribution of revenue between the operating/marketing airlines and the through-checking of checked luggage.

This addition to the standard IATA Internet Agreement just means that for tickets sold under the interline agreement the ticket should reflect the baggage allowance for all sectors according to the MSC for the journey. Note that a ticket may contain more than one journey (e.g. outbound and inbound) and each journey may have a different MSC and hence may have different baggage allowances.

An IATA Interline Agreement is a marketing tool allowing an airline to sell a single ticket that includes flights operated by other airlines. For example, I have travelled BNE to KUL many times using QF from BNE to SIN and MH from SIN to KUL. When this ticket is issued by QF as a single ticket, its sold under the terms of the IATA interline agreement between QF and MH for that routing, and one of the terms of that agreement is that QF is able to through-check the bags and MH will accept the bags and associated responsibility for ultimate deliver of the checked bags at KUL. And this change to the interline agreement would mean that I would be entitled to the QF baggage allowance for both BNE-SIN and SIN-KUL legs. In reality that has always happened for such a ticket.

 

[Drav]

Baggage Allowances Help?

Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of guidance.

I was looking at booking a flight through Qantas but they themselves dont fly direct to the destination. They threw up a number of options for the final leg such as Emirates, Cathay and even Singapore airlines.

My question is this, given that QF allow 23kg in economy and Singapore 20kg, would Singapore still honour the Qantas baggage allowance? would the same rules apply to a Qantas Club member (if im reading this right they seem to get 32kgs)

I wouldnt mind flying Singapore for that final leg, but they're pretty stingy with baggage allowances and id hate to be in a situation whereby they go "oh your 3kg over, lets charge you for excess baggage"

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[serfty]

If on the one booking and say you were traveling Oz-(QF)-xSIN-(SQ)-China then the "Most Significant Carrier" (MSC) rules apply and in the case the QF allowance applies for the entire one-way journey.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....allowances-interlining-become-more-29204.html

 

[ozmille]

If on the one booking and say you were traveling Oz-(QF)-xSIN-(SQ)-China then the "Most Significant Carrier" (MSC) rules apply and in the case the QF allowance applies for the entire one-way journey.

Isn't SQ the MSC in this example as they cross the IATA traffic are 3 to 2?

 

[serfty]

Sorry, I meant China, not Eu.

So the first 'sub area' crossing being from Oz to SIN within TC3, so QF's.

Baggage info - LAN.com

 

[ozmille]

This is still confusing me, I have an example which I can not really figure out...

SYD (QF) x/SIN (BA) LHR (QF) SYD

Is BA the MSC for the whole trip or only for the trip to LHR and QF for the way back?