Bad news for QF, great news for TA's

Status
Not open for further replies.

ejb

Established Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Posts
1,337
Just saw this on smh.com.au

Qantas in costly court case loss

smh.com.au said:
The court today upheld an appeal by Leonie's Travel, forcing airlines to include the fuel surcharge in their base figure for calculating commissions paid to agents.

This could be a very costly loss.

ejb
 
Good to hear. Maybe next the airline will stop scamming a fundamental cost of travel as an extra
 
That's great news...it's always amazed me how QF and other airlines could get away with including what is an operating expense as a tax...its not just a good day for TA's, its a good day for airline travellers too, hopefully it'll see the taxes on redemtions drop too.

TG
 
TravelToday said:
Travel agents today won a landmark battle over airline commissions on fuel surcharges. The final instalment of the long-running battle between agents and Qantas ended in the Federal Court this morning with a ruling that Qantas had breached contractual obligations. In their final judgment, appeal court judges Justices Lander, Rares and Besanko found that since the International Air Transport Association’s agency agreement, defines “fares applicable” as monies paid for transportation excluding third party charges and taxes, airlines did not have the right to exclude fuel costs from commissionable fares. Steven Lewis, practice group leader at law firm Slater and Gordon representing travel agents, said he believed the ruling to be a world first. “This is an important day for travel agents, not only in Australia but around the world. Since May 2004 travel agents have said they were entitled to be paid commission on airline fuel surcharges and the court has upheld this view,” he said. Qantas is unlikely to be given leave to appeal the case to any higher court, since the ruling draws on a 2000 UK case and the judges expressed a desire for international consistency.

The court must now decide how much commission will be paid back to agents and how. Five other airlines named in the original case will now have to decide whether to contest or accept this ruling. Only those agents opted in to the case, mainly independents, will benefit from the windfall, which is expected to run into the “tens of millions of dollars”, Lewis said. Any final pay-out is not expected until 2011.

Wonder when the taxes for redemptions will drop.
 
That is great news.

I too couldn't work out how they argued that the fuel surcharge wasn't part of the price. It's not as if fuel wasn't a component of the ticket price before surcharges came along!

WT
 
Is this tussle referring to the ticketing line item YQ?

I wonder how QF - amongst other named airlines - argued in the courts as to how fuel can be considered as a non-fundamental expense and thus a tax/surcharge? Makes little sense to me (and of course this is detail which will never make the news article - only the court proceedings).

The article says QF are considering their options. Looks like their only option is to concede - the judges don't seem to be willing to grant QF any avenue for appeal, plus considering the judgement was made on basis of a precedent it also seems unlikely to continue.

According to the article, apart from QF the other airlines implicated to have also participated in the illegal practice are NZ, CX, BA, SQ and MH.

So we all expect YQ to go down (or rather, eliminated) after this? QF will hurt the most on international routes. SQ have had high taxes/charges on awards as well - is a significant portion of that YQ?

In any case, where is the compo money going? TAs get a cut; I'm assuming (perhaps too quickly) that customers that were affected (i.e. booked awards in the said timeframe) will get nothing.
 
I don't see that the passengers would be entitled to anything back, just that TAs should be able to claim commission based on fuel finess from them
 
Great news and about time.

its not just a good day for TA's, its a good day for airline travellers too, hopefully it'll see the taxes on redemtions drop too.
I can see fuel surcharges dropping on classic awards although I believe Qantas will increase the QFF points required for the award. Should not affect Any Seat awards other than the minimum points costs increasing.

Hopefully we will not see an increase in airfares to make up for the commission payout.
 
Read our AFF credit card guides and start earning more points now.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Which ever way this plays out I see it as a move in the right direction. Trouble is that a few more things may need to happen to sort this though to an appropriate conclusion for the long suffering passengers.
 
Congrats to the litigants!

I recall this case from a few years ago, and really wanted them to win. I'm not a big fan of TA's, but the practice of making fuel surcharges a non-operating expense is a joke.
 
I am not 100% sure on this. It only changes how TAs are remunerated not the underlying YQ system. This is great for the TAs but does mean that QF has to find $80M from somewhere - and we all know who that will be...
 
I am not 100% sure on this. It only changes how TAs are remunerated not the underlying YQ system. This is great for the TAs but does mean that QF has to find $80M from somewhere - and we all know who that will be...
I welcome the decision but I entirely agree with your sentiments.Costs up= higher ticket prices.
 
I welcome the decision but I entirely agree with your sentiments.Costs up= higher ticket prices.
More specifically, all other things being equal, costs the same, commissions up.

However, things won't be equal and I think the airlines are more likely to try to squeeze the TA's even more after this. :-|
 
I am not 100% sure on this. It only changes how TAs are remunerated not the underlying YQ system. This is great for the TAs but does mean that QF has to find $80M from somewhere - and we all know who that will be...

I agree that it's likely that the $$$ will have to be found elsewhere. But my reasoning as to why it is so good, is that it removes a good proportion of commercial sense to have fuel fines. If they're paying commission on them to TA's, you may well see them being rolled back into the fare etc.

They are a pita to calculate for all concerned, and I'm sure there doesn't need to be too much justification to roll them back in. (Of course redemption tickets and staff travel are still cash cows with no comission... so perhaps it's dreaming that anything positive to travellers (who don't use TAs) will happen. If you do use a TA, perhaps they will lower their fees (due to more commission) or be able to offer larger discounts.
 
It seems that Qantas went off to the High Court with this one, and lost


QANTS Airways Ltd may be forced to pay back millions of dollars in commissions to travel agents after it failed in a bid to overturn a Federal Court ruling.

The High Court today dismissed an application by the national carrier to challenge a May 4 Federal Court ruling relating to commissions on fuel surcharges.

Qantas facing payback of commissions | Herald Sun
 
As a bit of a postscript to this, from yesterday Qantas began paying base commission on fuel surcharges. Now to see if other airlines follow.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top