Award Booking SYD-BKK via HKG,NRT,TPE,MNL,ICN | Australian Frequent Flyer
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Award Booking SYD-BKK via HKG,NRT,TPE,MNL,ICN

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JohnK

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I have been looking at the following routing to go SYD-BKK! Yes I know weird but I have never been to these places so why not a brisk visit. I hope the rules allow this weird routing before getting too excited.

The routing is SYD-(HKG)-NRT-(NRT)-(TPE)-HKG-(MNL)-HKG-TPE-(ICN)-TPE-HKG-BKK and comes in at ~13,581 miles all on CX so just 75,000 points and just over A$400 in taxes and charges. The cities in brackets are overnight stopovers and all onward flights are within the 24 hours window allowed! I may have a another stopover in HKG before going to BKK.

To start with, I took this booking to the stage where credit card details are entered. It is 12 segments so i think it is OK. I don't think there is any limit on the segments on a zone 10 one world award as long as you stay under the 15,000 miles.

I want to maximise the 15,000 miles but only flying CX. If I get rid of the additional TPE transits it only saves ~264miles but then I can add another HKG-(MNL)-HKG to original routing before going to BKK which should keep me under the 15,000 miles. Anywhere else I can go other than going back to MNL?

Is a visa required for TPE? I don't think a visa is required for any of the other places listed! You can almost count out PEK and PVG as I will definitely require a visa(s) plus award flights are limited where I looked towards end of July.

Hope not too confusing. Any useful ideas?
 

NM

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Firstly, the OneWorld Award must use two non-QF OneWorld airlines. So you cann't just use CX for all the flights. I think you are going to have to include a BA or AY flight in there to make it valid.

I'll keep thinking about the rest of it.
 

JohnK

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Thanks NM.

The booking does say Total points required 75,000 points. Note: Charges and taxes will apply to your booking. Your flight is a Qantas/partner Award.

Did I mention OneWorld award? Sorry! When I look at the partner award zone 10 it is 75,000 points! This is where it seems to be calculating from as i could see it go through the various stages of 35,000 points, 50,000 points, 65,000 points and then finally 75,000 points.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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You can stay at Shanghai up to 48 hours visa-free under a special exemption. As for other countries' visa requirements check out this link to IATA database.

No visa required for South Korea. Be aware ICN airport is well out of the city and can take a long time (2 hours each way) at peak hours.
 

serfty

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Certainly can't be a oneWORLD award as its a 'one-way' trip; as long as they are all transits and the carrier and class remain the same you'll probably be OK.

However I would familiarise my self with the T&C of the program, particularly 13. Redeeming Points for Award Flights.
 

NM

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JohnK said:
Thanks NM.

The booking does say Total points required 75,000 points. Note: Charges and taxes will apply to your booking. Your flight is a Qantas/partner Award.

Did I mention OneWorld award? Sorry! When I look at the partner award zone 10 it is 75,000 points! This is where it seems to be calculating from as i could see it go through the various stages of 35,000 points, 50,000 points, 65,000 points and then finally 75,000 points.
Well if being a Qantas Partner award, then its a series of one-way trips per QF's definition of a one-way flight. Note from the definitions sections of QF FF web site terms and conditions:
The number of points needed for an award flight on Qantas and our Partner airlines will be calculated on the sum of the one-way trips* in your itinerary. There will be no charge for stopovers, or for any non-flown (surface) segments. Your itinerary may have not more than 16 flight or surface segments.

* Trip means:
(i) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not broken by a Surface Segment or Turnaround Point;
(ii) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Award Flight tables;
(iii) one or more consecutive flight segments not broken by a change from any airline to, or from, the following airlines: Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LAN, Air Niugini, El Al, SAS, South African Airways, Swiss International Air Lines, or US Airways;
I suspect they will note some of your transit points as "turnaround" points and hence break the journey into multiple one-way trips.

However, also note from the QF FF web site:
13.3.5 Qantas may supply an Award Flight Point quote upon request. If the quote is inconsistent with the current levels published on qantas.com, then the levels published on this website will prevail.
So if the on-line system has quoted this as one long one-way trip, then you may be covered by this statement.

The only way I can see this working is with a OneWorld Award and bring an AY or BA flight into the mix.
 

serfty

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An International transit is a stay in the one place for less than 24 hours.
'Transfer' in relation to:
(i) an Australian domestic Itinerary, means a break of journey at an intermediate point when onward travel takes place on the same calendar day; and
(ii) for all other Itineraries, including those containing a domestic to international connecting flight, means when a passenger arrives at an intermediate point and is scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival;
 

NM

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serfty said:
An International transit is a stay in the one place for less than 24 hours.
I don't his problem will be the definition of "transit". The problem will be the undefined term "turnaround"
 

JohnK

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I must be a klutz! I thought I had read all the t&c's!

QF web site said:
Trip means a series of one or more consecutive Flight Segments within an Itinerary:
(a) that does not include:
(i) a Stopover; or
(ii) a Flight Segment whose arrival city is the same as the departure city of any other Flight Segment in that series, (in this instance the Trip will be broken at the farthest point from the departure city for that series);(b) not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Award Flight tables; or
(c) not broken by a change from any airline to, or from, the following airlines: Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LAN, Air Niugini, Alitalia, El Al, SAS, South African Airways, Swiss International Air Lines or US Airways;
Condition (ii) is the worry here. I can make it so that TPE is only visited once (I can route SYD-HKG-NRT-TPE-ICN-HKG-MNL-HKG-BKK) but I cannot avoid HKG as this is the central point!

NM said:
serfty said:
An International transit is a stay in the one place for less than 24 hours.
I don't his problem will be the definition of "transit". The problem will be the undefined term "turnaround"
I am on the move in less than 24 hours out of each "stopover". When I have tried to go past the 24 hours it then starts a new trip "Trip 2" in the same itinerary.

NM said:
However, also note from the QF FF web site:
13.3.5 Qantas may supply an Award Flight Point quote upon request. If the quote is inconsistent with the current levels published on qantas.com, then the levels published on this website will prevail.
So if the on-line system has quoted this as one long one-way trip, then you may be covered by this statement.

The only way I can see this working is with a OneWorld Award and bring an AY or BA flight into the mix.
I spoke to FF centre regarding this "trip". The person was not 100% certain but did tell me to try to complete the booking online. If I receive a booking reference and e-ticket then the itinerary is valid and they have no choice but to honour the booking.

I have seen the award booking engine while planning this trip on more than one occassion break the trip for one reason or another. For the itinerary I proposed it continues to display as Trip 1.

No point in trying to make it a OneWorld award as it will not be a return journey on points. I will be booking and paying for a return airfare from SIN back to SYD.

I am not ready to book as I am looking for more options. I cannot imagine that it would allow me to get to the credit card stage and then reject. But I have seen stranger things.
 

serfty

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NM said:
... Well if being a Qantas Partner award, then its a series of one-way trips per QF's definition of a one-way flight. Note from the definitions sections of QF FF web site terms and conditions:
The number of points needed for an award flight on Qantas and our Partner airlines will be calculated on the sum of the one-way trips* in your itinerary. There will be no charge for stopovers, or for any non-flown (surface) segments. Your itinerary may have not more than 16 flight or surface segments.

* Trip means:
(i) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not broken by a Surface Segment or Turnaround Point;
(ii) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Award Flight tables;
(iii) one or more consecutive flight segments not broken by a change from any airline to, or from, the following airlines: Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LAN, Air Niugini, El Al, SAS, South African Airways, Swiss International Air Lines, or US Airways;
...
NM, where did you copy those definitions from? An old version of the T&C's perhaps?

Qantas seem to have changed the T&C's to prevent the type of journey that the Web Page is appearing to allow; maybe the software has not caught up yet.

Here's the definition of a Trip from a March 2005 (same as NM's):
'Trip' means:
(i) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not broken by a Surface Segment, Stopover or Turnaround Point;
(ii) a series of consecutive Flight Segments not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Award Flight tables; or
(iii) one or more consecutive Flight Segments not broken by a change from any airline to, or from, the following airlines: Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LAN, Air Niugini, Alitalia, El Al, SAS, South African Airways, Swiss International Air Lines or US Airways;
Here's the current definition on the web site as at 2nd March this year (and as posted by JohnK):
'Trip' means a series of one or more consecutive Flight Segments within an Itinerary:
(a) that does not include:
(i) a Stopover; or
(ii) a Flight Segment whose arrival city is the same as the departure city of any other Flight Segment in that series, (in this instance the Trip will be broken at the farthest point from the departure city for that series);
(b) not exceeding the maximum permitted miles in the Award Flight tables; or
(c) not broken by a change from any airline to, or from, the following airlines: Aer Lingus, Cathay Pacific Airways, Finnair, Iberia, LAN, Air Niugini, Alitalia, El Al, SAS, South African Airways, Swiss International Air Lines or US Airways;
Due to this rule change, I have come to the belief that JohnK's routing might not be ticketed even though it might go all the way through with CC details and an Amadeus booking reference generated.

AFAIK, the actual ticketing of an itinery is not automatic upon completion of the web session; All online bookings are manually vetted for validity before being authorised for ticketing.
 

serfty

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NM said:
serfty said:
An International transit is a stay in the one place for less than 24 hours.
I don't his problem will be the definition of "transit". The problem will be the undefined term "turnaround"
Hmmm.. interesting.... :?

"Turnaround Point" appears to no longer be defined in the T&C's. It used to be thus:
QFF T&C said:
'Turnaround Point' means the city on an Itinerary which is the farthest from the starting point for that Itinerary. A Turnaround Point will only exist when an Itinerary starts and ends at the same city and does not include a Stopover or Surface Segment;
In it's place is the portion of the revised definition of Trip relating to having the same arrival city as a departure city of another flight in the routing:
(ii) a Flight Segment whose arrival city is the same as the departure city of any other Flight Segment in that series, (in this instance the Trip will be broken at the farthest point from the departure city for that series);
This "farthest point from the departure city" is the same as the old "Turnaround Point" for round trips; however the new terminology now prevents 'free' backtracking within itineries.

Interestingly, the issue of "Surface Segments" causing a new "Trip" seems to have been cast adrift; there is now nothing specific in regard to these.
 

JohnK

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serfty said:
Due to this rule change, I have come to the belief that JohnK's routing might not be ticketed even though it might go all the way through with CC details and an Amadeus booking reference generated.
I was told that once I receive that 6 digit booking reference then the booking is complete and valid.

serfty said:
AFAIK, the actual ticketing of an itinery is not automatic upon completion of the web session; All online bookings are manually vetted for validity before being authorised for ticketing.
If the person I spoke to on the phone did not know the T&C's then who is to say that the person doing the vetting would have the knowledge down to the finer details brought up here.

I still believe that this rule is quite valid.

QF T&C's said:
13.3.5 Qantas may supply an Award Flight Point quote upon request. If the quote is inconsistent with the current levels published on qantas.com, then the levels published on this website will prevail.
Doesn't this mean that if I can book it on the QF website it is valid. Surely the award booking engine software could have handled the situation where a city is a departure and arrival more than once in an itinerary!

Am I the first person to attempt this type of booking?
 

Foreigner

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Very interesting for me and I am learning a lot from you folks.

For partner award travel, and with references to 75000 ff points and 15000 miles, I take it this is for economy class.

Would it be correct that for business class, and for 15000 miles, one needs 139000 ff points?

f
 

BlacKnox

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Let us know how you go JohnK. And agree with ioki that no visa required for short stays. You may need some cash at/ before TPE though as the Airport ATMs have a history of malfunctioning.
 

markis10

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BlacKnox said:
Let us know how you go JohnK. And agree with ioki that no visa required for short stays. You may need some cash at/ before TPE though as the Airport ATMs have a history of malfunctioning.
Agree with the comment re the ATM's at TPE in the old terminal, new terminal seems to work Okay but from memory CX flight the old terminal (and the lounge is pretty average).

Taiwan has plenty to see if you know where to look, it was only recently that they started producing tourists maps.
 
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