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Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

Pushka

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Ah but what could be worse? This virus is so horrific we shut the country down. We can’t even consider going to WA because the virus once existed in some states.

I think my subtleties are being missed. The point I’m making is that it’s not a practical solution to lock people up when there’s nothing wrong with them at 30 seconds notice and to provide no support. It’s an action we use for criminals, not innocent people (who are supposedly so sick they’d need help) and we cannot expect a rational response from people.
I have never been in favour of that. The opposite. But we do need to shut down hot spots which is close contacts and second degree contacts. That is what happened here. But this guy ruined that principle completely. If the hot spot people don't follow the rules then the next thing to resort to is State shut downs. And no one wants that.

Anyway my family is now concerned about it and will remain so until Wednesday. MrP reckons if I have it then he is already exposed but I am keeping my distance etc. If it happens unknowingly then there isn't anything I can do. I can not knowingly give it to anyone now. Shame that doesn't seem to be a principle shared by all.

Having said all that, I dont believe for a second I have it. Trying to convince the son is not working. DIL (GP) is very guarded. But it sure as heck confirmed my thought that masks should be mandatory and shopping very limited to essentials.
 
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nutwood

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Surely its a 'failure' of the Constitution? The feds could decree a 'national policy' (I think they have in several aspects), but most of the states would simply ignore it. Then what?

I don't think coming in hard over the top with federal powers could be counted as 'leadership'.
Once more, I totally agree. Coming in hard over the top is dictatorship, not leadership.
Leadership is coming up with practical and workable solutions that address the concerns of those that you wish to lead. Getting the States of Australia to agree is probably several scales of difficulty above herding cats but none the less, that's what's required.
Jobkeeper has insulated us from reality but it's winding back. 2.5 billion every week tends to put a rosy glow on things but sooner or later, we need to get the economy back on a normal footing and the lack of a national strategy is a major stumbling block.
 
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HappyFlyerFamily

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Just to catch up.

I gather @Pushka was caught up on today’s announcement of venues where a positive case was.

Does that mean these venues are regarded as close contact (ie 14 days quarantine regardless of test result and symptom) or casual contact (ie wait for negative test)?

I’m just confused because up to now casual contact was a less extensive measures and the positive case was a casual contact but treated as a close contact under the second ring principle???

Hope things go well Pushka (and any others in Adelaide caught up in this) ❤️
 

Pushka

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Just to catch up.

I gather @Pushka was caught up on today’s announcement of venues where a positive case was.

Does that mean these venues are regarded as close contact (ie 14 days quarantine regardless of test result and symptom) or casual contact (ie wait for negative test)?

I’m just confused because up to now casual contact was a less extensive measures and the positive case was a casual contact but treated as a close contact under the second ring principle???

Hope things go well Pushka (and any others in Adelaide caught up in this) ❤️
Thankyou to those who have been well wishing. All bar one poster here actually.

Yes, that's it. Regarded as urgent to test, isolate until negative result. Tested yesterday.


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Is it ironic that it was my new Qantas card obtained to get Status credits that told the story? All my usual cards showed nothing so thought I was in the clear then thought I'd check that one.
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jase05

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It’s seems the Adelaide gentleman had a “misunderstanding” and believed that because he tested negative he was allowed to leave isolation
 

Pushka

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It’s seems the Adelaide gentleman had a “misunderstanding” and believed that because he tested negative he was allowed to leave isolation
It would be interesting to know if his misunderstandings also led him to go shopping on other days or that just a ninja blitz wouldn't get noticed. It does seem however he had a very bad misunderstanding in that the very day it was announced he was positive, (so he would have known beforehand,) that he desperately needed to go to Uni. At least that's the timeline it seems to be. Might be wrong, it seems a bit muddy as to who did that.
 

I love to travel

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It would be interesting to know if his misunderstandings also led him to go shopping on other days or that just a ninja blitz wouldn't get noticed. It does seem however he had a very bad misunderstanding in that the very day it was announced he was positive, (so he would have known beforehand,) that he desperately needed to go to Uni. At least that's the timeline it seems to be. Might be wrong, it seems a bit muddy as to who did that.
I had exactly the same question. A one day blitz would make his "misunderstanding" much less plausible.
 

Lynda2475

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I guess we'll hear in due course how a death can be attributed when there hasn't been any active cases for a while. Or perhaps a 'reclassification'?

Which reminds me, is there any discussion within any of the state authorities on 'died with coronavirus' Vs 'died of coronavirus'.?

ABC says:

It was from complications over her original COVID-19 diagnosis, according to the DHHS. "The case was a woman in her 70s who was part of a small group of cases diagnosed in late July. She was cleared as an active case in late Sept. In line w/ the national case definition, this is a COVID-related death as no recovery occurred from time of infection. Our condolences.

This creates more confusion re recovered vs no longer active/infectious. I guess that is why NSW now only reports active insted of recovered. So many people still experience negative health impacts despite notbeing infectious.
 
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nutwood

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And my text just arrived. A big fat NEGATIVE. 🍾
That's excellent news!
It's my feeling that the stress of not knowing is possibly worse than the virus itself. This is only going to get worse with Christmas looming and borders tentatively opening.
 

Princess Fiona

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I guess we'll hear in due course how a death can be attributed when there hasn't been any active cases for a while. Or perhaps a 'reclassification'?

Which reminds me, is there any discussion within any of the state authorities on 'died with coronavirus' Vs 'died of coronavirus'.?
This isn’t really a state matter. The Anti-Vax / Covid is overplayed brigade jumped on the WA Coroners paper as proof of COVID-19 being blamed for all deaths.
It’s rubbish.
The ABS has published the stats and a good explanation of the reporting.
Essentially if you die of a flu like illness that is clinically compatible with COVID-19 and you tested positive to it then that’s a COVID-19 death.
If you die after being run over by a truck and you tested positive to COVID-19 that is not recorded as a COVID-19 death.
Most of those who have died had co-morbodities with Dementia the most common one recorded on the death certificate.

Of those deaths recorded so far only 8 did not have laboratory confirmation of the virus but did have a clinically compatible illness. These are recorded as COVID-19 deaths as per the WHO guidelines. Obviously in a pandemic with overwhelming numbers of cases in countries that cannot do mass testing many people will die without having laboratory confirmed disease.
 

Pushka

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That's excellent news!
It's my feeling that the stress of not knowing is possibly worse than the virus itself. This is only going to get worse with Christmas looming and borders tentatively opening.
Absolutely. The worrying thing for me is that I had baby sat the grandchild two nights ago. That I might have innocently passed it on to him was the worst feeling possible.
 

RooFlyer

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Most of those who have died had co-morbodities with Dementia the most common one recorded on the death certificate.

Thanks. Without wishing to take the thread into a morbid direction, but just out of interest# ... I understand a/the treating doctor signs the death certificate and writes the 'cause of death' and I don't think you strictly 'die of COVID', but rather one or more organ 'failures' brought on by the virus - pneumonia, inflammation etc. Is that right? So would a Covid positive (or recently positive) patient 'cause of death' be expressed in terms of the 'organ failure' (incl dementia) maybe with 'Covid related' in brackets or something?

If the certificate ONLY noted "organ failure' type of cause, but the person had been positive, would it still be counted in the statistics as a COVID death?

EDIT - sorry, just read the ABS link. COVID deaths are recorded by them off death certificates BUT the link doesn't say if the deaths noted by the states on days they occur have the same definition but it sounds like it doesn't - rather being a 'daily surveillance'

In Australia, information on deaths from COVID-19 is collected through a disease surveillance system. This system provides daily information on both infections and mortality.

Mortality data compiled by the ABS is not based on this daily surveillance. Instead, it is based on death registrations processed by the jurisdictional Registries of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and information on the cause of death sourced from a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) completed by a certifying practitioner.


# I'm not pushing any particular angle, but as a long time family historian, I have an interest in how deaths are recorded on certificates :oops:
 

Princess Fiona

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Thanks. Without wishing to take the thread into a morbid direction, but just out of interest# ... I understand a/the treating doctor signs the death certificate and writes the 'cause of death' and I don't think you strictly 'die of COVID', but rather one or more organ 'failures' brought on by the virus - pneumonia, inflammation etc. Is that right? So would a Covid positive (or recently positive) patient 'cause of death' be expressed in terms of the 'organ failure' (incl dementia) maybe with 'Covid related' in brackets or something?

If the certificate ONLY noted "organ failure' type of cause, but the person had been positive, would it still be counted in the statistics as a COVID death?

EDIT - sorry, just read the ABS link. COVID deaths are recorded by them off death certificates BUT the link doesn't say if the deaths noted by the states on days they occur have the same definition but it sounds like it doesn't - rather being a 'daily surveillance'

In Australia, information on deaths from COVID-19 is collected through a disease surveillance system. This system provides daily information on both infections and mortality.

Mortality data compiled by the ABS is not based on this daily surveillance. Instead, it is based on death registrations processed by the jurisdictional Registries of Births, Deaths and Marriages, and information on the cause of death sourced from a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD) completed by a certifying practitioner.


# I'm not pushing any particular angle, but as a long time family historian, I have an interest in how deaths are recorded on certificates :oops:
This is how the death certificate looks. If you died due to one of the recognized complications of COVID-19 then that is the cause of your death irrespective of what other medical conditions you have they will be noted in part II of the death certificate. This is the same for deaths due to other causes. If you trip and fall and get a massive brain bleed then that is the cause of your death, even if you had dementia, heart disease and cancer.

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Lynda2475

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More Info ont he latest Vic death from SMH.com.au:

People who become severely ill with coronavirus remain at heightened risk of death from complications linked to the virus even months after being cleared of the pathogen.

The warning from infectious diseases physicians comes as the state's Department of Health and Human Services confirmed a Victorian had died from coronavirus complications, despite having been cleared of the virus.

Health authorities reported the death on Monday morning and Premier Daniel Andrews later told a press conference that the woman who died was in her 70s and is believed to have died from coronavirus induced damage to her lungs.

Mr Andrews said the woman was subsequently cleared as being COVID-free and reclassified as recovered.

"The coroner will look at this, but our advice is that she passed away very recently. They believe the coronavirus-induced damage to her lungs has caused her to pass away, and therefore she is counted as a coronavirus death," he said.

Infectious diseases physician Peter Collignon said a major infection in the body could increase death rates for about six months after the event, particularly among those who were critically ill in hospital.

"That's because even if you get over the actual event it can damage your heart, your kidneys, your lungs and even make you more likely to have heart attacks and strokes because it changes the inflammatory parameters in your body and, very specifically, it lowers the ability of your white cells to fight off other infections as well," Professor Collignon said.

The microbiologist said medical complications following a serious illness were not unique to coronavirus. Other severe infections, such as golden staph, particularly once it enters the bloodstream, had been linked to higher deaths rates and ongoing disability.

Staphylococcus is a common bacteria that lives on the skin and in the nose which can cause mild to severe and potentially fatal infections after entering the body through a cut to the skin.

"If you look at data from anybody who has a severe infection, so golden staph if that gets into your blood, influenza, COVID ... cases where you're sick enough to get into hospital or require intensive care, you tend to have a higher death rate for your age and other complications for the next six months at least," Professor Collignon said.

"A large number have ongoing disability months later, even though the infection itself is gone. Then it will usually goes back to where you were previously."

Australian National University infectious diseases physician Sanjaya Senanayake, who has studied the long-term effects of golden staph and sepsis on the body, said it was not uncommon with any serious infection to see a higher death rate even though people survived the initial infection.

Sepsis is caused when an immune response to infection starts to damage tissues and organs. Without fast treatment it can lead to death and survivors will often have ongoing health issues.

"If you follow people six months or even a year down the track, there is an increased death rate even though people have got over the initial illness," he said.

"Part of it could be that their underlying conditions have been exacerbated and they are now much worse and there is an inflammatory response which persists after the infections gone which can affect blood clotting and various other things."
With coronavirus a relatively new virus, Professor Senanayake said much was still being learned about its lasting and lingering effects on the body.

We are looking at these 'long-haulers with long COVID' who at least for a good four to six weeks after a good proportion of people are getting all these various symptoms, so various pains in different muscles and joints, feeling tired, shortness of breath, not being able to think clearly all those things are happening."

These symptoms, sometimes called post-viral fatigue syndrome have also been documented in sufferers of many viral diseases including influenza and SARS.

Professor Senanayake said with other similar viruses, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome, more commonly known as SARS, the symptoms seemed to settle down within a few months after the acute episode.

"Long COVID" is not an official medical term, but it is used to describe people still suffering symptoms of the virus longer than the official World Health Organisation’s recognised two-week period.


But Professor Senanayake noted what was striking about coronavirus was that doctors were seeing a heightened level of "post-infective symptomatology," not documented in people struck down by influenza.

"With COVID we will just have to see," he said. "There are a lot of people who are flippant about it or think COVID is just like the flu, but it is not like the flu.

"With COVID, it is probably to soon to say, it may not be as bad as other serious infectious, or it may be similar, only time will tell," he said."

Even in the short-term, we are seeing young people who have to go off work because they are just not well enough to work, so there is an economic issue. We also think there might be some issues with fibrosis, or scarring in the lungs, we are yet to see whether that will have long-term impact on people."

Experts have also warned the true extent to which coronavirus is causing death in Australia may not be known for at least another year.

In Australia and other countries across the world, the COVID-19 death figures being reported daily are hospital cases in which a person dies with the coronavirus infection in their body, given it is a notifiable disease in which all cases must be reported.

SARS-CoV-2, the virus which causes COVID-19, could be the major cause of death, a contributory factor, or simply an infection present when a person dies of another medical condition.

"What we need is good data analysing the number of people who have died with COVID. We know that coronavirus is undoubtedly contributing to their death, but is it a 10 per cent contribution, a 90 per cent contribution, or 100 per cent compared to their underlying disease? We can't say that with any accuracy yet," Professor Collignon said.

The state recorded no new cases, for the 31st day in a row, as Melburnians were allowed this morning to begin a gradual return to the office.
 

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