Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

Given the late announcement in SA last night about linkages discovered yesterday, I wonder if them watching the 400 hours of Peppers CCTV had anything to do with it and not just genomic testing. The ages of the people from yesterday and the age of the infected cleaner may suggest (pure speculation) of adult child and parent. But that would be very random.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

So just checking there was no criteria given on why Qld made arrivals from Vic and Sydney quarantine free??? Lol

 

[straitman]

Vic has zero cases again and the Qld Premier has confirmed on Sunrise that Victorians are allowed into Qld from Dec 1.

 

[jakeseven7]

And with that, QLD opens to VIC from Monday

Great testing rates again too.

 

[Anna]

What predictable mistakes were made?
And why do SA Health have to announce every decision they make?
SA had upped their contact tracing back in March and have had contingency plans for increased contact tracing if needed.One of those was to get help from NSW and I believe that has already been activated.
This situation is totally different to the Victorian outbreak.First this was a medi hotel so staffed by nursing staff as well as police and security staff.Victoria just staffed by security personnel with no onsite supervision by police.
Second no evidence that the index case passed the infection on to any one else at the hotel but only the family of that worker.
Third no evidence that any security personnel have been infected whereas many were infected in Victoria and it was they that then spread it in the community.

And the common factors are that the index case was a hotel worker and the infection was then spread to large families-but only one in SA v multiple in Victoria.

Predictable mistakes - not testing quarantine staff (fixed now); employing minimum wage workers who then need multiple jobs to make ends meet instead of paying them a decent wage to do their very dangerous quarantine job.

Why should SA Health reassure the public they are on top of a sudden tenfold increase in active cases in hotel quarantine (from 2 to 20)? Because they are public servants working to protect the public in the middle of a global pandemic of over 50 million cases and the equivalent of the entire population of SA in deaths. Their previous fallacious reasoning that 'an outbreak from quarantine hasn't happened here therefore it's not going to' astounds me.

Your point starting with 'second' is incorrect.

But, although I was alarmed before the SA outbreak happened, I've been happy with the effective SA Health response since it happened. I don't however accept the description of the junior doctor at Lyell McEwin as a 'heroine' as Nicola Spurrier called her. It was great that she did the swab but that was just doing her job. I'm amazed that apparently other doctors might not have taken that swab from someone presenting at hospital feeling non-specifically unwell in the midst of the global pandemic, the sudden tenfold increase of active cases in SA hotel quarantine and the knowledge of what happened in Victoria. But they've fixed that too now and are now swabbing anyone who presents to hospital with anything that could conceivably be covid, even just a slightly raised temp.

 

[blackcat20]

My test would have been included in yesterdays numbers. Can see why weekend numbers are low, I went to a drive through site and was the only person there....

 

[RAM]

I don't however accept the description of the junior doctor at Lyell McEwin as a 'heroine' as Nicola Spurrier called her. It was great that she did the swab but that was just doing her job. I'm amazed that apparently other doctors might not have taken that swab from someone presenting at hospital feeling non-specifically unwell in the midst of the global pandemic, the sudden tenfold increase of active cases in SA hotel quarantine and the knowledge of what happened in Victoria.

Within Australia, & around the world, unfortunately, there is too much evidence everyday of people 'not just doing their job'.

One correction though - the 81 yr old lady was in A&E for 'not feeling her normal self' not displaying any obvious pulmonary symptoms. When the doctor was not actually treating her but dealing with another person - she heard a slight cough, turned around to see it was that lady and decided to test despite no community cases for how many months?

Compare that with NSW letting the Ruby Princess passengers off despite reports of many with respiratory symptoms but weren't the flu - at a time when cruise ships around the world were being quarantined. Remember that the Diamond Princess (Tokyo Bay Feb 3rd) had been on the front page of most Australian media for over 5 weeks by then. 'She'll be right'.

I suspect the chain of people involved with Ruby Princess earn multiples what the Adelaide Doctor earns and work nothing like the hours she works as a junior doctor. She worked the Friday night shift and was back for another shift on Saturday afternoon.

You could argue that soldiers who get awarded medals for bravery 'are just doing their job' & shouldn't be called heros. I wouldn't.

 

[Pushka]

No further cases in SA today. Very significant changes in the manner of which medi hotels are being handled and all very positive.

Yesterday SA Health stated that the two international travellers had caught the virus in the hotel because of genomics. This morning I heard Prof Cullinan, infectious diseases expert from ANU stating that unless there was further evidence then it was quite possible that they had brought it in themselves and not through the med hotel system

 

[jamescara]

An old hospital is (likely) to be turned into a quarantine facility - it's on the edge of the CBD here in Adelaide. They're suggesting staff will be able to "rest" onsite instead of home if they wish.

 

[RAM]

This is unusual - a tech group explaining the vaccines use tech speak.

'mRNA is like a Plug & Play device', 'fat is like the hardware'

Despite what you may think, it succeeds in making key points more understandable. Also details the Oxford vaccine for good measure.

mRNA vaccines won't just end the pandemic. They could change health care forever

Two vaccine candidates show promise in knocking out coronavirus. The technology used to develop them could herald more breakthroughs.

www.cnet.com

 

[jakeseven7]

Seems like they've also retracted their theory on the surface transmission as well.....The security guard got it first, not the cleaner....

Anything else they are going to walk back? (I mean look on the bright side - the news keeps getting better and better!)

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yesterday SA Health stated that the two international travellers had caught the virus in the hotel because of genomics. This morning I heard Prof Cullinan, infectious diseases expert from ANU stating that unless there was further evidence then it was quite possible that they had brought it in themselves and not through the med hotel system

I suspect that Spurrier has seen the genomic sequence and Cullinan has not. Spurrier stated this morning that they were linked to the local cluster.

Each time the virus is transmitted it will normally alter slightly. This allows genomic sequencing, if a swab can successfully grow the virus (which sometimes it does not), to be used to work out the transmission chain.

So Spurrier would most likely know with the two international travellers with their sequence if they are recently linked to cases in SA, or were from a past common ancestor.

Locally acquired transmission in SA has previously been reported where SA Health had indicated that a child had caught it from the parents in Australia and not overseas before they arrived. Presumably genomic sequencing would have allowed that determination.

 

[Pushka]

I suspect that Spurrier has seen the genomic sequence and Cullinan has not. Spurrier stated this morning that they were linked to the local cluster.

Each time the virus is transmitted it will normally alter slightly. This allows genomic sequencing, if a swab can successfully grow the virus (which sometimes it does not), to be used to work out the transmission chain.

So Spurrier would most likely know with the two international travellers with their sequence if they are recently linked to cases in SA, or were from a past common ancestor.

Prof Cullinan did refer to the genomic test, stating it needed further evidence of spread or leakage as to how they caught it at the hotel. It’s a moot point I guess but it has spurred them to isolate any positive cases into a separate medical facility

All staff and people are now going through testing again.

So better news today and it’s getting some days now since the close contacts started their home quarantine and so they are being tested and will be released if negative.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Prof Cullinan did refer to the genomic test, stating it needed further evidence of spread or leakage as to how they caught it at the hotel.

If one sequence definitely shows that it is a descendant of another then they will know even if they do not know how it was transmitted.


SIDE STORY:

When I was on my Croatian small boat cruise last year (oh those were the days!) there was a large USA three generation family on the boat too. Quite complicated with multiple previous couples, but with shared children, or half-children and one set of grandparents (quite wealthy who evidently paid for everyone's cruise).

One of the adult children was on the cruise as he was a biological child of the father on the cruise, but had only recently found him. How he found his father was that he had done a DNA test through AncestryDNA (the family tree group). This linked him with an adult female (also on the cruise) in Ancestry who he was able to contact and it turned out she was his aunt. From the aunt it was worked out that the brother had sold his sperm while at university to make money. It was anonymous. The brother also did a DNA test and that confirmed he was the father.

They were a very complicated, though also very friendly, family and the above was actually one of the tamer family histories of the group.

The genomic sequencing used with CV19 does the same thing. It allows when complete and especially with multiple samples from different people to work out how close cases are and order of descendance.

 

[drron]

Predictable mistakes - not testing quarantine staff (fixed now); employing minimum wage workers who then need multiple jobs to make ends meet instead of paying them a decent wage to do their very dangerous quarantine job.

Why should SA Health reassure the public they are on top of a sudden tenfold increase in active cases in hotel quarantine (from 2 to 20)? Because they are public servants working to protect the public in the middle of a global pandemic of over 50 million cases and the equivalent of the entire population of SA in deaths. Their previous fallacious reasoning that 'an outbreak from quarantine hasn't happened here therefore it's not going to' astounds me.

Your point starting with 'second' is incorrect.

But, although I was alarmed before the SA outbreak happened, I've been happy with the effective SA Health response since it happened. I don't however accept the description of the junior doctor at Lyell McEwin as a 'heroine' as Nicola Spurrier called her. It was great that she did the swab but that was just doing her job. I'm amazed that apparently other doctors might not have taken that swab from someone presenting at hospital feeling non-specifically unwell in the midst of the global pandemic, the sudden tenfold increase of active cases in SA hotel quarantine and the knowledge of what happened in Victoria. But they've fixed that too now and are now swabbing anyone who presents to hospital with anything that could conceivably be covid, even just a slightly raised temp.

So the predictable mistakes were actually things SA had in common with every other State.

SA reacted as it did because if the pizza worker had been telling the truth then he would have caught the virus at the pizza shop so the number of possible cases and their geographic spread would have been possibly enormous.Note the caught from a pizza box was the pizza worker's suggestion.I presume they requestioned him when they found no evidence of infection in any other worker making his suggestion highly improbable.

SA reacted also because of the genomics they had as well as a possible severe scenario.They were correct to do so.SA obviously shared the information with all other States and the Commonwealth.As I have stated we at the hospital here in Tasmania were told of this by the medico here that is on the covid action committee before the lockdown was announced.That day we had a refresher course on PPE doffing and donning.The local health authorities obviously believed the possible SA scenario.

Lastly there are widely accepted guidelines on testing for covid and they particularly exclude testing people who present to hospital without possible covid symptoms.This includes a fever.Without any other symptoms of covid a fever by itself is not a reason for a covid test.This is a national guideline.You will though grill such a patient more intensely to make sure they have no possible covid symptoms.This was said by our infectious diseases physician this morning.The problem is testing a person where there is a very low pretest chance of infection -such as residents of Tasmania and SA before this cluster - the chance of a positive test being a false positive becomes quite high.Just ask the residents of Blackall in QLD what harm that does to a community.

And the junior doctor showed that she is indeed a very good doctor.The initial patient presented complaining of NO Covid symptoms.The doctor pressed for a covid test because she was observant and heard her cough twice which then made a covid test necessary.If the patient hadn't coughed she would not have been tested and the outbreak likely a lot worse.

 

[RAM]

My test would have been included in yesterdays numbers. Can see why weekend numbers are low, I went to a drive through site and was the only person there....

Isn't it wonderful to be able to say that!

In the US today this story on California has been run across the media.

“That is unless you’re willing to just have it play out the way it does, which California has not been and probably won’t become a state that does it that way.”
The only glimmer of good news is the comparatively low rate that people here are testing positive for the virus, which at about 6 percent is well below the national average.

Reading that sure made me realise that our glass is closer to 99% full!

 

[Pushka]

So the predictable mistakes were actually things SA had in common with every other State.

Absolutely. SA was no ‘worse’ than any other state. I just thought after the Victorian issue that there may have been National? State? policies to test people in close contact. Well, I assumed that would be our safety net. Important lessons have now been learnt and their response today is excellent.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Within Australia, & around the world, unfortunately, there is too much evidence everyday of people 'not just doing their job'.

One correction though - the 81 yr old lady was in A&E for 'not feeling her normal self' not displaying any obvious pulmonary symptoms. When the doctor was not actually treating her but dealing with another person - she heard a slight cough, turned around to see it was that lady and decided to test despite no community cases for how many months?

Compare that with NSW letting the Ruby Princess passengers off despite reports of many with respiratory symptoms but weren't the flu - at a time when cruise ships around the world were being quarantined. Remember that the Diamond Princess (Tokyo Bay Feb 3rd) had been on the front page of most Australian media for over 5 weeks by then. 'She'll be right'.

I suspect the chain of people involved with Ruby Princess earn multiples what the Adelaide Doctor earns and work nothing like the hours she works as a junior doctor. She worked the Friday night shift and was back for another shift on Saturday afternoon.

You could argue that soldiers who get awarded medals for bravery 'are just doing their job' & shouldn't be called heros. I wouldn't.

This is not correct. The Registrar who ordered the swab was seeing the patient. She was doing a night shift and returned the following evening for another night shift.

The same registrars working for NSW Health doing the same night shifts for the same pay are swabbing people who don’t quite feel right all the time.
But I guess that doesn’t fit your Ruby Princess narrative.


ABC News

 

[nutwood]

Absolutely. SA was no ‘worse’ than any other state. I just thought after the Victorian issue that there may have been National? State? policies to test people in close contact. Well, I assumed that would be our safety net. Important lessons have now been learnt and their response today is excellent.

Actually, I think SA was better than other States. They made a quick decision, which is a lot better than the dithering and buck passing we've seen elsewhere. OK, it was possibly the wrong decision but again, when that was ascertained, they were upfront about it and quickly rectified the situation.

 

[RooFlyer]

Not sure if foreshadowed new legislation in Tasmania has kicked in, but I’m getting asked to sign on to many more places when I visit this week. Cafes and the like.