Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

lovetravellingoz

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Already explaiined,

You actually did not explain at all.

But now you have:
its plain as day there isnt any real commitment to keeping state borders open

In the Roadmap it clearly refers to intrastate travel and Interstate Borders.

1632043337231.png

So the state borders will be open. Though it may be for the fully vaccinated
As we’ve flagged before, there will come a time when Victorians who choose not to get vaccinated will be left behind – that time has now been firmly set in the Roadmap.​


The Roadmap today is extra detail applicable in Victoria on top of all detail listed in the National Plan. So you merge the two to get what will be happening in Victoria.

So

Phase C of the National Plan:
Minimum ongoing baseline restrictions, adjusted to minimise cases without lockdowns
Highly targeted lockdowns only


or increasing arrival caps.

Phase B of the National Plan
Restore inbound passenger caps at previous levels for unvaccinated returning travellers and larger caps for vaccinated returning travellers;

Phase C of the National Plan:

 Abolish caps on returning vaccinated Australians;
 Allow increased capped entry of student, economic, and humanitarian visa holders;
 Lift all restrictions on outbound travel for vaccinated Australians; and
Extend travel bubble for unrestricted travel to new candidate countries (Singapore, Pacific)




So the plan opens the borders and increases arrival caps.

The Premier also stated today that once we open that there is no going back. That does not mean that various public health measures will not still be used as required to keep the health system at ok levels.
 
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jakeseven7

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The degree to which they will be open will differ.

Indoor dining, visitors in the home and gyms are allowed in NSW at 70%, not so in Vic.

At 80% Gladys has stated NSW will be taking more overseas arrivals and remain open to all Aussie states and territories. Im not at all convinced either will happen in Vic at same point. Hope Vic proves me wrong.

You don’t actually know and again if you are seeking certainty in any states covid plan I’m afraid you are going to be disappointed. Nothing is following a linear path I’m sorry.
 

justinbrett

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You don’t actually know and again if you are seeking certainty in any states covid plan I’m afraid you are going to be disappointed. Nothing is following a linear path I’m sorry.

We do. Gladys has made it abundantly clear international travel is on once we get to 80% double jabbed.

No promise on quarantine though - it will either be home or hotel depending on the risk.
 

Lynda2475

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You don’t actually know

So Gladys was lying at the presser and in the press release that states dining out, in home visits and gyms opening at 70% in NSW? That is a big call on your part.

Gladys has likewise been very clear we get some international travel at 80% and the 80% is for 16+.

So i know what been publicly announced, and given consistency of her messaging, no reason to believe she will back track on that.
 
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justinbrett

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So Gladys was lying at the presser and in the press release that states dining out, in home visits and gyms opening at 70% in NSW. That is a big call on your part.

Gladys has likewise been very clear we get some international travel at 80% and the 80% is for 16+.

So i know what been publicly announced, and given consistency of her messaging, no reason to belive she will back track on that.

People from other states who don't watch the pressers and complain that the pressers are still running go on to argue with the content explained in the pressers.

I guess it's our fault for being sensitive. 😆
 

Lynda2475

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In the Roadmap it clearly refers to interstate travel and Interstate

All you have done is better highlight the differences and omissions between Vic and National plan.

The Vic plan states at 70% vaccinated residents can return, that is hardly opening, residents should never have been locked out and never were in NSW. And no mention of restoring international arrival caps, so ignores national plan. Yet NSW pressers have talked about increasing caps between 70-80%, and removal of them at 80% for vaccinated.

Omitting key freedoms is not following the national plan, its opening up lite.
 

lovetravellingoz

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All you have done is better highlight the differences and omissions between Vic and National plan.

You clearly cannot understand the simple concept that the Vic Roadmap is in addition to what is in the National Plan. You seem to think it is a completely different plan. It isn't.

It is not replacing it, it is not instead of it. It is just an extra level of detail that spells out what exactly is happening within Victoria at a local level with much more detail by industry, household etc.

So it does not restate what is in the National Plan, as it is just extra detail relevant to what is happening in Victoria.

So for example all the detail on international caps still applies. There is no need to restate them.
 
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So Gladys was lying at the presser and in the press release that states dining out, in home visits and gyms opening at 70% in NSW. That is a big call on your part.

Gladys has likewise been very clear we get some international travel at 80% and the 80% is for 16+.

So i know what been publicly announced, and given consistency of her messaging, no reason to belive she will back track on that.

I wouldn't say "lying", maybe just over-optimistic (as usual). I also wouldn't put too much heed to consistency of her messaging either:

- 24 June "we are at this stage comfortable with the settings that are in place". 25 June - lockdown lite Mk I
- "We will not provide a list of essential workers, please use common sense". Couple of weeks later "here is a list of critical workers"
- "We are not going to put in place measures that don't work", and “When I get questions about curfews or exercise or whatever else, the fact is that will not … reduce the number of cases.” (when asked about curfews). Then later enacts a curfew
- July: "Secondly, and I have expressed this view publicly, but I have also expressed it to my colleagues, the Premiers and Chief Ministers in other jurisdictions [that] just because you reduce the number of people coming in, doesn't mean outbreaks aren't going to happen" (in reports that she was the only Premier to object to the reduction in international arrivals in July). August: asks for a further halving of the international intake to Sydney (i.e. a quarter of the number arriving in Sydney since Gladys' July quote)

Gladys has a recent track record of saying what she thinks people want to hear, and then back-tracking rapidly when it becomes clear something isn't tenable.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do hope that the reopening can happen and is successful, I just think that Gladys is probably going to be pragmatic about things and not just say "oh, hit the 70% mark, let's go" in the face of new data/changed circumstances.
 
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HappyFlyerFamily

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I wouldn't say "lying", maybe just over-optimistic (as usual). I also wouldn't put too much heed to consistency of her messaging either:

- 24 June "we are at this stage comfortable with the settings that are in place". 25 June - lockdown lite Mk I
- "We will not provide a list of essential workers, please use common sense". Couple of weeks later "here is a list of critical workers"
- "We are not going to put in place measures that don't work", and “When I get questions about curfews or exercise or whatever else, the fact is that will not … reduce the number of cases.” (when asked about curfews). Then later enacts a curfew
- July: "Secondly, and I have expressed this view publicly, but I have also expressed it to my colleagues, the Premiers and Chief Ministers in other jurisdictions [that] just because you reduce the number of people coming in, doesn't mean outbreaks aren't going to happen" (in reports that she was the only Premier to object to the reduction in international arrivals in July). August: asks for a further halving of the international intake to Sydney (i.e. a quarter of the number arriving in Sydney since Gladys' July quote)

Gladys has a recent track record of saying what she thinks people want to hear, and then back-tracking rapidly when it becomes clear something isn't tenable.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I do hope that the reopening can happen and is successful, I just think that Gladys is probably going to be pragmatic about things and not just say "oh, hit the 70% mark, let's go" in the face of new data/changed circumstances.
The NSW Premier has done the same with relaxations - some musings that don't come to fruition.

One example was the haircut/hairdresser at 70% first dose. (Edit: NSW Premier's interview on Kyle and Jackie O on 18 August discussing possible permissible activity at end of August)

There was also some discussion during the parliamentary hearing involving the NSW Health Minister and NSW CHO about the NSW Premier possibly just giving hope with those musings.

At the moment I think NSW only has a 70% plan/roadmap.
 
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jakeseven7

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So Gladys was lying at the presser and in the press release that states dining out, in home visits and gyms opening at 70% in NSW. That is a big call on your part.

Gladys has likewise been very clear we get some international travel at 80% and the 80% is for 16+.

So i know what been publicly announced, and given consistency of her messaging, no reason to belive she will back track on that.

Again you are being ultra sensitive and I’m not sure why since no one said anyone was lying but equally by that stretch you could say the Victorian premier was also lying today. And the PM a couple of weeks ago.

You just need to accept that all leaders are going to have to flex and can’t deliver the concrete certainty you crave right now. As Dr Chant says it’s the new world order :)
 

Lynda2475

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One example was the haircut/hairdresser at 70% first dose.

That was never announced as policy, it was a speculation from the media, when question was asked the Premiers response was they were working through what would be possible. Hazard mentioned he would dearly like a haircut, but that doesnt a policy announcement make.

Haircuts will be a thing at 70% double vaxed provided both the hairdresser and client are fully vaccinated, that is on the official record. The only risk is you live in an LGA of concern and your salon is in a different LGA, as a couple of those LGAs still have rising case numbers, so maybe restricted to 5km when no one else is. .

Again you are being ultra sensitive

Oh please! That is the most absurd thing ive read in ages Im pragmatic and call bs when i see it.

Yes id like the Premiers to grow backbones and be brave enough to announce a comprehensive plan stick to that plan, but since most have no such fortitude, they wont be getting business from me.

There is no need to flex in NSW when we have a firm numbers driven commitment for double vax at 70%, and business have already taken it on board, lots of signs in windows today at hairdressers, nail, pet groomers all confirming reopening on 18th Oct, and with some luck might be a week earlier.
 
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Lynda2475

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Pretty sure Gladys doesn’t get to decide when we can travel overseas

Hence my observation earlier that slower vaccine progress in other states is going to prevent NSW residents travelling overseas as we need the state and national average to both be over 80% double jabbed. LTO failed to grasp the mathematics of that one, and why Victoria is key to getting the national average over the line, but WA isnt.
 

lovetravellingoz

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The triggers are set by vaccination levels. What part of the Roadmap in any way would suggest that Vic is not getting vaccinated?

LTO failed to grasp the mathematics of that one, and why Victoria is key to getting the national average over the line, but WA isnt.

I am well aware of how the triggers are calculated, which was the reason for my earlier comment re-posted above.

The question you have continually failed to answer is what was in the Victorian Roadmap that would negatively effect that trigger calculation?

The answer is that there is nothing in that roadmap that will negatively effect the trigger calculation.

Indeed with respect to that National Vaccination Trigger for International Travel what was announced today should increase the Victorian vaccination rate when supply allows, and quicken that trigger being reached as:

  • It was spelled out that if not vaccinated that people will enjoy less freedoms, and a range of freedoms were clearly listed. (So more incentive for people to get vaccinated)
As we reach 70 per cent and 80 per cent double dose vaccination targets, the Roadmap lists certain venues for opening – but only on the condition that all eligible attendees to the venue are vaccinated.
  • It was announced that a number of other workforces will have compulsory vaccination. (So more people will now have to get vaccinated unless they change their job)
To help ensure this, Victoria’s Chief Health Officer will assess vaccination requirements for all authorised workers in Victoria. These requirements and potential deadlines will be assessed progressively as the Chief Health Officer considers each sector. There are already vaccine requirements for aged care, construction, and freight workforces.
Following the recommendation from AHPPC to National Cabinet, we can confirm that healthcare workers will be the next workforce to have vaccination become a requirement to work. Healthcare workers will need to have received at least their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine by 15 October or provide evidence that they have an appointment to be vaccinated before 1 November to continue working.
The next workforce group prioritised for assessment will be school staff and childcare staff. We will also have more to say soon about Victoria Police and disability worker vaccinations requirements.

So if one's key concern is reaching the international trigger earlier, then the Victorian Roadmap, which reinforces the nationally agreed plan at a local Victorian level, announced today is good news as it includes aspects that should help to increase the demand to get vaccinated.
 
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HappyFlyerFamily

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Has anyone done an analysis of the differences between NSW's post-70% plan and Victoria's post-70% plan (both metro and regional)? Since we don't have a formalised NSW 80% plan/policy/roadmap yet (hopefully its released this week), there is nothing to compare on that front.
 

Lynda2475

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The question you have continually failed to answer is what was in the Victorian Roadmap that would negatively effect that trigger calculation?
<redacted>

There is simply no need to answer a question which is unrelated to the point i made.

Victoria (and all other smaller states/territories) except ACT are lagging NSW in rollout and therefore .delaying us reaching 80%.national average needed for NSW to open internationally, its a simple fact of numbers.
 
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