Australian Dual Citizens Entering UK after February

[Bugs]

I honestly don’t think they could. Maybe if you’ve ever had a National Insurance number or UK Driving Licence then your details will be in the gov.uk system, because you would have needed to prove residency rights to get those.

Having just done a National Insurance query via phone to UK, where the guy at Pensions said het we can do the form over the phone due to me being legally blind. At the end of the call he said I will get ….weekly from May this year. I wasn’t going to claim until after my trip on Feb 16th to LHR. Changed from March 5th.
Guess I’ll see what happens at Perth

 

[Flyingwombat]

I honestly don’t think they could. Maybe as a long shot if you’ve ever had a National Insurance number or a UK Driving Licence? Your details might then be in a gov.uk system because you would‘ve needed to prove your citizenship or residency rights to get those. Still, I’d be astounded if they were able to match it all up with the level of certainty required to deny your ETA.

I'm all good as I have a British passport as well... I did have an NI number which I only used for my Saturday job from age 15-18 and then I worked one year in UK after Uni age 21 before escaping to Europe and then onto Australia... I also had a UK licence from age 17. I just wonder how any of this data could ever be matched up. Government IT is usually woeful.

I wouldn't risk it as my elderly parents are in UK which is why I've always kept my other passport. As COVID taught us sometimes you do need keep citizenships if you need to get into a country fast.

Although I still remain disappointed that Australian citizenship didn't count for much - I actually got stuck in UK for a short time and then in NSW before Tasmania would let me get home... but I digress!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm all good as I have a British passport as well... I did have an NI number which I only used for my Saturday job from age 15-18 and then I worked one year in UK after Uni age 21 before escaping to Europe and then onto Australia... I also had a UK licence from age 17. I just wonder how any of this data could ever be matched up. Government IT is usually woeful.

I wouldn't risk it as my elderly parents are in UK which is why I've always kept my other passport. As COVID taught us sometimes you do need keep citizenships if you need to get into a country fast.

Although I still remain disappointed that Australian citizenship didn't count for much - I actually got stuck in UK for a short time and then in NSW before Tasmania would let me get home... but I digress!

You don’t need to be a UK citizen to have an NI number or driver licence. So I doubt those are going to carry much weight if UK border force was trying to get someone to admit they were a citizen!

 

[Zero]

I honestly don’t think they could. Maybe as a long shot if you’ve ever had a National Insurance number or a UK Driving Licence? Your details might then be in a gov.uk system because you would‘ve needed to prove your citizenship or residency rights to get those. Still, I’d be astounded if they were able to match it all up with the level of certainty required to deny your ETA.

Well, there's no entitlement to an ETA. I don't think they would go to these lengths, but if they really wanted to stop unknowing citizens from using ETAs, they could theoretically deny an ETA on the suspicion that you may be a citizen, and ask you to apply for a full visa where your citizenship or lack of it would be confirmed.

If you've been issued a British passport since 1994 and just haven't bothered to renew it, the details of your previous passports should be easily accessible to the ETA system, if they wanted to program that in. So if you started living in the UK as a citizen in the past 30 years they wouldn't need to obtain records from other government agencies.

If you were living in the UK on a visa in a foreign passport then DWP and DVLA/DVA records would only have the foreign passport, if they've even kept those details. I got an NI number on my Aus passport before I became a British citizen, although the DVLA knows I'm a citizen because I had them retrieve the photo from my British passport to print on my last DL.

 

[MollyJones]

I really should have been keeping up with all this. MrJones is going to a conference in UK and we just found out that he is actually a British citizen by descent (his father came to Aus as a child with his 10 pound pom parents, in 1956).

While he always knew he "could" apply for a British passport, he had no reason to. Certainly since Brexit, the UK passport isn't nearly as helpful as it once was and even then, his Aus passport has easily taken him everywhere he has wanted and needed to go. Now, he is scrambling to get all the required documents, send them with his passport to the UK (so can't do any other o/s travel in the meantime) and hope beyond hope that they accept his documents the first time and the UK passport is received in time. His mother has dementia, doesn't have a passport, never had a drivers licence so getting a copy of her birth certificate is very tricky. His father doesn't like the idea of sending the original of his UK birth certificate - why they can't at least accept certified or notarised copies is beyond me.

All for a citizenship he didn't ask for, didn't know he had and didn't even want.

He might get through LHR faster than me in future, but that is not worth the stress and business related cost and inconvenience of this crazy administration of "rules".
Where is the Australian government advocating on behalf of these citizens by descent? He is Australian and has previously had no issue travelling to the UK.
With the automatic citizen by descent potentially impacting the Australian born children of the more than one million 10 pound poms who arrived between 1945 and 1985, (all of whom are now adults) surely the Aus government should have something to say on our behalf.

Note to the Brits - we are not the colonies any more.

 

[AuSammy]

I really should have been keeping up with all this. MrJones is going to a conference in UK and we just found out that he is actually a British citizen by descent (his father came to Aus as a child with his 10 pound pom parents, in 1956).

While he always knew he "could" apply for a British passport, he had no reason to. Certainly since Brexit, the UK passport isn't nearly as helpful as it once was and even then, his Aus passport has easily taken him everywhere he has wanted and needed to go. Now, he is scrambling to get all the required documents, send them with his passport to the UK (so can't do any other o/s travel in the meantime) and hope beyond hope that they accept his documents the first time and the UK passport is received in time. His mother has dementia, doesn't have a passport, never had a drivers licence so getting a copy of her birth certificate is very tricky. His father doesn't like the idea of sending the original of his UK birth certificate - why they can't at least accept certified or notarised copies is beyond me.

All for a citizenship he didn't ask for, didn't know he had and didn't even want.

He might get through LHR faster than me in future, but that is not worth the stress and business related cost and inconvenience of this crazy administration of "rules".
Where is the Australian government advocating on behalf of these citizens by descent? He is Australian and has previously had no issue travelling to the UK.
With the automatic citizen by descent potentially impacting the Australian born children of the more than one million 10 pound poms who arrived between 1945 and 1985, (all of whom are now adults) surely the Aus government should have something to say on our behalf.

Note to the Brits - we are not the colonies any more.

My parents were £10 poms. I have travelled to and via the UK a few times but never lived there.

If I wished to go to the bother of applying I could get a UK passport. But I have no intention of doing so. I don’t consider myself to be a UK citizen and have no desire to be one.

My firm belief is the UK have zero idea of who my parents were (who have now passed away).

I’m also of the firm belief that I can apply for an ETA without issue and travel into and out of the UK in the future without any problems

Entilement to citizenship is not the same as citizenship. If I don’t apply for it and it is not granted then I am not a citizen.

 

[lovestotravel]

I really should have been keeping up with all this. MrJones is going to a conference in UK and we just found out that he is actually a British citizen by descent (his father came to Aus as a child with his 10 pound pom parents, in 1956).

While he always knew he "could" apply for a British passport, he had no reason to. Certainly since Brexit, the UK passport isn't nearly as helpful as it once was and even then, his Aus passport has easily taken him everywhere he has wanted and needed to go. Now, he is scrambling to get all the required documents, send them with his passport to the UK (so can't do any other o/s travel in the meantime) and hope beyond hope that they accept his documents the first time and the UK passport is received in time. His mother has dementia, doesn't have a passport, never had a drivers licence so getting a copy of her birth certificate is very tricky. His father doesn't like the idea of sending the original of his UK birth certificate - why they can't at least accept certified or notarised copies is beyond me.

All for a citizenship he didn't ask for, didn't know he had and didn't even want.

He might get through LHR faster than me in future, but that is not worth the stress and business related cost and inconvenience of this crazy administration of "rules".
Where is the Australian government advocating on behalf of these citizens by descent? He is Australian and has previously had no issue travelling to the UK.
With the automatic citizen by descent potentially impacting the Australian born children of the more than one million 10 pound poms who arrived between 1945 and 1985, (all of whom are now adults) surely the Aus government should have something to say on our behalf.

Note to the Brits - we are not the colonies any more.

I should have paid more attention as well

My 2 kids are eligible for a British passport

We fly out in 5 weeks

Paperwork being sent to the UK for their passports via courier mail on Monday..............

 

[Flyingwombat]

I really should have been keeping up with all this. MrJones is going to a conference in UK and we just found out that he is actually a British citizen by descent (his father came to Aus as a child with his 10 pound pom parents, in 1956).

While he always knew he "could" apply for a British passport, he had no reason to. Certainly since Brexit, the UK passport isn't nearly as helpful as it once was and even then, his Aus passport has easily taken him everywhere he has wanted and needed to go. Now, he is scrambling to get all the required documents, send them with his passport to the UK (so can't do any other o/s travel in the meantime) and hope beyond hope that they accept his documents the first time and the UK passport is received in time. His mother has dementia, doesn't have a passport, never had a drivers licence so getting a copy of her birth certificate is very tricky. His father doesn't like the idea of sending the original of his UK birth certificate - why they can't at least accept certified or notarised copies is beyond me.

All for a citizenship he didn't ask for, didn't know he had and didn't even want.

He might get through LHR faster than me in future, but that is not worth the stress and business related cost and inconvenience of this crazy administration of "rules".
Where is the Australian government advocating on behalf of these citizens by descent? He is Australian and has previously had no issue travelling to the UK.
With the automatic citizen by descent potentially impacting the Australian born children of the more than one million 10 pound poms who arrived between 1945 and 1985, (all of whom are now adults) surely the Aus government should have something to say on our behalf.

Note to the Brits - we are not the colonies any more.

The thing is Australia requires Australian citizens to enter Australia using their Aussie passport so not sure how our government would go asking another country to change their rules to suit us.

Also this is a change that impacts all dual British citizens not just Aussie - Brits.

 

[Flyingwombat]

My parents were £10 poms. I have travelled to and via the UK a few times but never lived there.

If I wished to go to the bother of applying I could get a UK passport. But I have no intention of doing so. I don’t consider myself to be a UK citizen and have no desire to be one.

My firm belief is the UK have zero idea of who my parents were (who have now passed away).

I’m also of the firm belief that I can apply for an ETA without issue and travel into and out of the UK in the future without any problems

Entilement to citizenship is not the same as citizenship. If I don’t apply for it and it is not granted then I am not a citizen.

I can’t see in your case how they could possibly know… unless the ETA application asks for parents names and details? I haven’t done one yet for my husband who is not British and therefore will need an ETA when we travel later in the year…

 

[MollyJones]

My parents were £10 poms. I have travelled to and via the UK a few times but never lived there.

If I wished to go to the bother of applying I could get a UK passport. But I have no intention of doing so. I don’t consider myself to be a UK citizen and have no desire to be one.

My firm belief is the UK have zero idea of who my parents were (who have now passed away).

I’m also of the firm belief that I can apply for an ETA without issue and travel into and out of the UK in the future without any problems

I would like to agree with you, but I worry that in years to come, data matching may catch up and cause issues. It is technically lying on your ETA application. As we saw with the politicians a few years ago, ignorance is no excuse.
The rules around automatic citizenship by descent are antiquated and imperialistic, assuming that a country is superior and therefore everyone wants to be a part of it. Sure, give people an option to take up the "right" to citizenship - which is what we had always assumed MrJones had.
With the new ETA rules for "citizens" it seems clear that the UK government haven't really thought through the issue of the citizens by descent, and the ludicrous situation they have caused.

 

[MollyJones]

The thing is Australia requires Australian citizens to enter Australia using their Aussie passport so not sure how our government would go asking another country to change their rules to suit us.

Also this is a change that impacts all dual British citizens not just Aussie - Brits.

What the goverment need to do is seek clarity for the people who didn't ask to be British citizens - the million or more children of the 10 pound poms - who never wanted to be British but apparently have to go through hoops to get a British passport.

I understand for dual nationals who have made that application themselves and know they want both passports, but many didn't know and don't want it, and are being forced to take it out.

 

[transpactraveller]

I would like to agree with you, but I worry that in years to come, data matching may catch up and cause issues. It is technically lying on your ETA application. As we saw with the politicians a few years ago, ignorance is no excuse.
The rules around automatic citizenship by descent are antiquated and imperialistic, assuming that a country is superior and therefore everyone wants to be a part of it. Sure, give people an option to take up the "right" to citizenship - which is what we had always assumed MrJones had.
With the new ETA rules for "citizens" it seems clear that the UK government haven't really thought through the issue of the citizens by descent, and the ludicrous situation they have caused.

The dual citizen politician thing was crazy. Most of them never realised they'd been given citizenship of another country. And most of us laughed at them thinking how could they be so stupid not to know. But it does make sense if they'd never applied for it or tried to claim it.

Seems this UK thing is similar with the UK giving out automatic citizenship to people who never wanted it or tried to apply for it.

 

[Pushka]

I didn't think that eligibility for citizenship translates to 'actual citizenship' until it is requested and applied for and all paperwork approved amd recorded. If you haven't applied for it then it hasn't happened.

 

[MollyJones]

I didn't think that eligibility for citizenship translates to 'actual citizenship' until it is requested and applied for and all paperwork approved amd recorded. If you haven't applied for it then it hasn't happened.

That is what we always thought too. But according to Uk Gov it is automatically bestowed. Website very clear on this.

 

[Pushka]

That is what we always thought too. But according to Uk Gov it is automatically bestowed. Website very clear on this.

So, if this was automatically bestowed, this is citizenship by descent then? So Dad was a Brit and maybe never knew it. Although im trying to find out if he registered citizenship in his own right and then I can claim it too. His parents migrated to Aus in 1926. 100 years ago. His passport issued in 1948? Has the British Subect stamped on it.

 

[MollyJones]

So, if this was automatically bestowed, this is citizenship by descent then? So Dad was a Brit and maybe never knew it. Although im trying to find out if he registered citizenship in his own right and then I can claim it too. His parents migrated to Aus in 1926. 100 years ago. His passport issued in 1948? Has the British Subect stamped on it.

The UK website says that it is only first generation- just as well or we could be tracing back to my convict ancestors!
My husband is automatically British because his father was, but our children are not, because my husband was only a citizen by descent.
No perks of course. Just a lot of time wasted and inconvenience.

 

[kelvedon]

What the goverment need to do is seek clarity for the people who didn't ask to be British citizens - the million or more children of the 10 pound poms - who never wanted to be British but apparently have to go through hoops to get a British passport.

I understand for dual nationals who have made that application themselves and know they want both passports, but many didn't know and don't want it, and are being forced to take it out.

Citizenship by descent is a common “privilege” bestowed by many European counties including Germany and Ireland.

Should the imminent European ETA have the same requirements as the UK ETA ( i.e.when entering a country for which you hold citizenship, you must travel on that country’s passport), then there will be many many more people in this situation.

The principal of Jus sanguinis doesn’t appear to give the recipient a choice.

​

 

[Noah Count]

I had posted up thread but am now just confused. My dad was a £10 pom and I check my AU birth certificate and it clearly indicates my dad was born in the UK and as pointed out by others and on the UK Govt website I could be a dual citizen as I was born pre 83. I asked Dad if he had ever handed over details of my birth certificate when we lived there as a family in the early and late 70's but he cannot recall and said that on both times my brother, sister and I all travelled under Mum's passport. My brother was born in the UK and we have both travelled on AU green and blue passports to the UK, he gets through quickly as both say he was born in the UK. When travelling to the UK I have just lined up with the rest as my passports states I was born in AU.
Also given the problem a few politicians had a few back is anyone aware of what information is been shared between governments or a web site one can check on. Only asking as at some point I would have had to provide my birth certificate to get my original AU passport, I was just going to run the gauntlet as I have never requested to be a UK citizen or hold a UK passport, but do not know if I will get flagged.

 

[Pushka]

I had posted up thread but am now just confused. My dad was a £10 pom and I check my AU birth certificate and it clearly indicates my dad was born in the UK and as pointed out by others and on the UK Govt website I could be a dual citizen as I was born pre 83. I asked Dad if he had ever handed over details of my birth certificate when we lived there as a family in the early and late 70's but he cannot recall and said that on both times my brother, sister and I all travelled under Mum's passport. My brother was born in the UK and we have both travelled on AU green and blue passports to the UK, he gets through quickly as both say he was born in the UK. When travelling to the UK I have just lined up with the rest as my passports states I was born in AU.
Also given the problem a few politicians had a few back is anyone aware of what information is been shared between governments or a web site one can check on. Only asking as at some point I would have had to provide my birth certificate to get my original AU passport, I was just going to run the gauntlet as I have never requested to be a UK citizen or hold a UK passport, but do not know if I will get flagged.

So citizenship by descent and you could apply for a passport now I understand.

I've lodged an enquiry with the UK National Archives to see whether Dad had a Citizens certificate issued which gives him citizenship in his own right and not by descent. That would change everything for me.

Politicians now it seems aren't held to the same standard of citizenship anymore.

 

[transpactraveller]

Politicians now it seems aren't held to the same standard of citizenship anymore.

I think it was when there was a minority government or very small majority, the opposition started looking into everyone's ancestry to find people that may unknowingly be dual citizens and then use that to get them removed from parliament to try to get the majority power or force a by-election. Good use of our tax dollars as always...